I agree with most here the time is now for Simon to go.

Don't think it's time to think for a rebuild as we haven't got next next years first and perhaps whoever coaches next will tell the players they have faith we can still make the 8 and bring and bring some spark back and hope of success.

We can't lay out swords down and have the attitude this group of players are not capable as what will the senior players motivation be to be at the club anymore.

We all painfully remember the post Daniher era and the mistakes of the first rebuild.

We need to model a transition of change like other sides have done recently. Priority number one is not letting the players feel there is no success to play for.

The Bulldogs come to mind as a club who is has seen big name players leave but have managed to stay competitive. I was never a fan of Bevo until I thought about how much his back was against the wall and what they have done so far this year.

Swans and Geelong are more examples of how to manage change when the time comes.

Goody’s been with the club for a decade now. This is our worst start to a season in six years. Under him, we won a flag and had several top four finishes, with ‘22 and ‘23 being missed opportunities. I’m all for discussing who our next coach might be, but I think we could go about it with a bit more class and respect for Goody.

10 hours ago, Hellfire Dub said:

Yes.

Don't forget to prioritise contest & defence, along with meaningless inside 50 stats and territorial dominance (expected scores etc) over actually scoring goals.

Winning the stats but not the game.

Simon Goodwin..."The chances are you're about to lose".

Yea im happy to priortise this. I like winning games and losing them on expected score or bad goal kicking. It was fun being relevant. Enjoy your new paradigm.

Many here are wildly over-emphasising the influence that a coach has on a team. I know I'm a cracked record on this, but the only way to improve a team is through improving the list.

The evidence is all around us, but as always, people look for the easy solution rather than the right solution.

3 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Goody’s been with the club for a decade now. This is our worst start to a season in six years. Under him, we won a flag and had several top four finishes, with ‘22 and ‘23 being missed opportunities. I’m all for discussing who our next coach might be, but I think we could go about it with a bit more class and respect for Goody.

That's all well and good but the prime consideration is the team and winning, not Simon Goodwin. Hell,let's extend his tenure, he's such a handy chap !!

Club needs to grow some.

Goody deserves respect no matter what happens. He is a legend of the club for ending our drought.

The cliff came quickly for us. This list isn't winning anymore flags so i hope the powers that be recognise this and make the changes necessary to set us up to challenge again in a few years time. And i know changing a coach is a big call but I think the game has moved on from Goody and i don;t think he has it in him to re-invent himself. I think a new voice is needed.

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Many here are wildly over-emphasising the influence that a coach has on a team. I know I'm a cracked record on this, but the only way to improve a team is through improving the list.

The evidence is all around us, but as always, people look for the easy solution rather than the right solution.

Do you think that we're playing to the level we're capable of?

Personally I feel the players look completely lost right now and have very little belief in what they're doing.

So much [censored] has happened over the past few years on and off the field. I really just think the club needs a fresh start and some clear air.

I think it more than Goodwin, the club has been lost for so many years. When you drive past Goschs paddock and see Melbourne players training alongside an old lady walking her dog and some amateur football player kicking goals on the same public oval. It’s hard to believe we haven’t fixed the problem of a proper home for this club. There is zero innovation on how the club is run, we have poor boring communication across all platforms, game days are boring and don’t lean into our identity. If we are not winning no one shows up because unfortunately we need more as demons supporters. There is no innovation in the way we play we just follow what others are doing and hope it works for us. We need change and the players tried to drive it last year but all they got was a mess. We are not a destination club because we haven’t fixed anything and when players go looking around at other clubs we look downtrodden and stale! I still hope one day soon we can implement real change that sets us up for sustain led success.

Edited Saturday at 21:054 days by Bmac1242

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Many here are wildly over-emphasising the influence that a coach has on a team. I know I'm a cracked record on this, but the only way to improve a team is through improving the list.

The evidence is all around us, but as always, people look for the easy solution rather than the right solution.

You're speaking as if list and coach are separate entities. Which they're not.

The coach is at the top of the tree when deciding type of player required for game-plan, player selection, player position and list changes. (Obviously there are others who also contribute to these decisions but the coach has the blueprint).

And perhaps the most important element of coaching is having the players playing for him. Being able to inspire and bring out the best of his players on game-day.

Improving the list or rather our inability to have improved the list also falls on Goodwin. Is that not obvious?

3 hours ago, bing181 said:

Many here are wildly over-emphasising the influence that a coach has on a team.

Sorry Bing ol mate but a more inane suggestion I've yet to read.

To take you supposition to any of a number of extrapolations....

If little influence.... why have him ??

If little influence ..get rid of him

If little influence.... what the actual !@$@ is a coach for ??

I'm going to go maverick and suggest he is actually the MOST influential member of the FD and the place where the proverbial buck stops.

And it can stop right now. The team already has.

17 minutes ago, Redleg_Knowledge said:

Improving the list or rather our inability to have improved the list also falls on Goodwin. Is that not obvious?

Not only is it not obvious, it's not even true. It's well documented across the AFL (and other sports for that matter) that the head coach has input into list management but is only one voice. For obvious reasons. Tim Lamb does not answer to Goodwin.

If you want to see how this plays out, watch Moneyball. Meanwhile, one example among many:

"Geelong premiership mentor Chris Scott made very clear earlier this year when challenged on the way his team has been shaped that as senior coach “I am just one vote (of four) in list-management meetings.""

https://www.indaily.com.au/sport/football/2022/09/16/when-list-manager-is-the-afls-most-important-job

Edited Saturday at 21:324 days by bing181

25 minutes ago, Bmac1242 said:

I think it more than Goodwin, the club has been lost for so many years. When you drive past Goschs paddock and see Melbourne players training alongside an old lady walking her dog and some amateur football player kicking goals on the same public oval. It’s hard to believe we haven’t fixed the problem of a proper home for this club. There is zero innovation on how the club is run, we have poor boring communication across all platforms, game days are boring and don’t lean into our identity. If we are not winning no one shows up because unfortunately we need more as demons supporters. There is no innovation in the way we play we just follow what others are doing and hope it works for us. We need change and the players tried to drive it last year but all they got was a mess. We are not a destination club because we haven’t fixed anything and when players go looking around at other clubs we look downtrodden and stale! I still hope one day soon we can implement real change that sets us up for sustain led success.

Spot on, hawks are moving into their second home base in the last 25yrs & we are still hopeful of a horse race track which the majority of the current list will be retired or playing for another club!

A leader has to come from somewhere outside the followers - be bringing to them the benefit of consideration of maps, and tactical plans based on more than they have been aware of - they have to be in some sense apart. So that the trust they inspire goes beyond self-trust. Like them - yes, probably a good thing; but when it comes to their leading, that's not the key part.

Norm Smith was more than that. And the tough man element of him was not all he brought. Anyone who ever heard Don Scott speak will remember presence, and unmistakable authority. Not bullyboy toughness - he WAS an authority. Deriving out of grasp, not just demeanour.

Max is fabulous for what he does. But Max is the guy that he is. We need someone at the helm who is backstopping Max, with things clearly other than what Max brings.

There does appear to be a lack of grip, of gravitational pull. Brad Green is great, but the club needs more than him. The lack may be filled by Stephen Smith, though as good as he was I don't remember him as having a galvanising presence in say the manner of Stephen May. There doesn't seem to have been anyone with guru-like presence since Paul Roos. And the club seems to have been falling apart for several years,with nobody there able to take hold of it.

Ahh, what would a spectator know? Maybe it'll all right itself, somehow....

15 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Not only is it not obvious, it's not even true. It's well documented across the AFL (and other sports for that matter) that the head coach has minimal input into list management and is but one voice. For obvious reasons. Tim Lamb does not answer to Goodwin.

If you want to see how this plays out, watch Moneyball.

You're using a Hollywood movie to try and prove that a coach and list aren't linked?

11 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Not only is it not obvious, it's not even true. It's well documented across the AFL (and other sports for that matter) that the head coach has minimal input into list management and is but one voice. For obvious reasons. Tim Lamb does not answer to Goodwin.

If you want to see how this plays out, watch Moneyball.

Well Tim lamb should be moved on & I'm sure the coaches have a say on list management, regardless they have failed, compare who the Cats, Swans, pies & lions trading in of experience talent, we have failed miserably! The culture issues which caused Houston to change his mind. Goodwin has no other game plan than contest & defence, the new one failed last season & switched back mid season & this year it’s failing miserably…

Big issue is that fans won't want to rock up to games now, it's clear we all want to see the back of Goodwin.

There's no-one else in the coaching panel that would inspire the fanbase though. I assume Chaplin would take over as interim; that doesn't excite me at all.

At least at one stage we had T Viney and Yze around. Jones is in the box but a mile off it and right now looks like a questionable hire.

Our success in 2021 was probably the result of a really exceptional group of players. The most dominant midfield in living memory, plus the best backline. I don't know if this is true, but I remember hearing that with less than a minute to go in the third, the wisdom was to ice it - and either Petracca (i think) or Oliver said no, go for it! And they tore off the leash. It was mindboggling, looking down on that and hearing the noise. Nothing like it, ever. Or, maybe Ablett snr. I saw Brent crosswell once do something like that - get into a zone of unstoppability. But apart from that, you need structure and system.

Take out that extraordinary month in 2021, when the players were removed from ordinary life and went into hyperdrive or whatever - outplaying the world to an insane level - we have lacked charisma, and added very little to an extraordinarily talented group. Which has been really quite disturbingly disintegrating ever since.

59 minutes ago, seventyfour said:

Big issue is that fans won't want to rock up to games now, it's clear we all want to see the back of Goodwin.

There's no-one else in the coaching panel that would inspire the fanbase though. I assume Chaplin would take over as interim; that doesn't excite me at all.

At least at one stage we had T Viney and Yze around. Jones is in the box but a mile off it and right now looks like a questionable hire.

Who is our midfield coach Jones? What experience does he have?? I love the guy & the players would but we’re getting smashed in the midfield

1 hour ago, Demonsone said:

Spot on, hawks are moving into their second home base in the last 25yrs & we are still hopeful of a horse race track which the majority of the current list will be retired or playing for another club!

It's by far the biggest elephant in the room and our most embarrassing unspoken truth, how is it that the one of the oldest professional sporting clubs in the world doesn't have a home? It's beyond embarrassing it's shameful.

Goody’s excuses/deflections.

Round 1. Six debutants.

Round 2. Max’s family issues.

Round 3. The players and their form.

Round 4. Any chance it is the coach? No, come on, it’s the trip down to Geelong, of course. It’s a hard place to play. How often do Collingwood/Carlton/Essendon played down there? (Actually, good point Simon, but 20 goals?)

Round 5. It was disappointing to see how few Melbourne supporters made the trip over to Adelaide, and it didn’t help we had to give up a home game at the G.

Round 6. The supporters can’t even be bothered to turn up at the G. There were more Freo supporters. Other than that, I’ve got no effin idea what went wrong today.

Round 7. Clearly we need to start from scratch again. We might have missed out on pick 1 this year, but I think we’ll be able to trade in a few first round picks. Or maybe second rounders? Would you believe some salary cap relief? (Nathan Bassett).

Please be aware that round 7 comments are subject to the intestinal fortitude of the Melbourne board, which cannot be guaranteed.

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

Many here are wildly over-emphasising the influence that a coach has on a team. I know I'm a cracked record on this, but the only way to improve a team is through improving the list.

The evidence is all around us, but as always, people look for the easy solution rather than the right solution.

You're right, perhaps we should offer Goodwin an extension 🤦

6 hours ago, beelzebub said:

That's all well and good but the prime consideration is the team and winning, not Simon Goodwin. Hell,let's extend his tenure, he's such a handy chap !!

Club needs to grow some.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the club should part ways with him sooner than later, I’m just suggesting we can show a bit more respect when discussing his early departure.

It's time and its overdue.

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

Many here are wildly over-emphasising the influence that a coach has on a team. I know I'm a cracked record on this, but the only way to improve a team is through improving the list.

The evidence is all around us, but as always, people look for the easy solution rather than the right solution.

The players aren’t over the hill as some have suggested. It’s largely the same list that won us the flag. We should be better for it. Trac and Oliver should be playing career best footy. Viney, Gawn, Lever and May should all be at peak or just coming off it but not nose diving as we can see.

Perhaps they don’t have the collective energy to be as ruthless as they once were…. belly full type of stuff. That is on the leadership and footy department if true.. it does explain to an extent what we are seeing. It takes work and effort to change and embrace a new game plan. Perhaps the explanation is that simple?

6 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Don’t get me wrong, I think the club should part ways with him sooner than later, I’m just suggesting we can show a bit more respect when discussing his early departure.

I understand the sentiment but it is by nature a harsh industry. Participants won't be surprised that critiques will be barbed. You live or die by accomplishments and success. The dynamism of the competition doesn't allow for long held breaths.

It's do or die.... and we're dying