Was I just imagining it, or was the centre square clearance work in the first quarter like watching a different team? 

I feel that not once but several times, the tap was aggressive and creative, and the resulting clearance was clean and incisive. 

After that, Max seemed to wane badly, but even when he did win taps, it was back to the same old same old: very conservative. And then the last quarter - what a disaster. I genuinely don't understand how THAT midfield can lose eight in a row. (I can't overstate how much I think we need to take the best midfielder we can with our first round pick this year, but that's a topic for another thread.)

Better footy judges might be able to give their thoughts.

One of the better starts for this year and probably last three. And then it turned to poo. 
very disappointed 

One factor may have been a decision (I believe it was during the third quarter?) by the umpires to stop bouncing the ball. There had been a number of recalls during the game and even though there was no rain and this is the best oval in the country they made a decision to change that parameter of the game.  Max seems suited to the unpredictability of the bounce (I believe he has said that before). Once the umpires took to  just throwing it up Briggs took an aggressive position right on the line through the circle and Max was not jumping over him (perhaps related to his injury). Our centre clearance rate went south after that.

  On 29/07/2024 at 03:59, Hawk the Demon said:

One factor may have been a decision (I believe it was during the third quarter?) by the umpires to stop bouncing the ball. There had been a number of recalls during the game and even though there was no rain and this is the best oval in the country they made a decision to change that parameter of the game.  Max seems suited to the unpredictability of the bounce (I believe he has said that before). Once the umpires took to  just throwing it up Briggs took an aggressive position right on the line through the circle and Max was not jumping over him (perhaps related to his injury). Our centre clearance rate went south after that.

interesting.   i hadn't noted that umpiring change.  i did notice the results however, and wondered if max wasn't 100% fit

  On 28/07/2024 at 23:35, The Taciturn Demon said:

After that, Max seemed to wane badly, but even when he did win taps, it was back to the same old same old: very conservative. And then the last quarter - what a disaster. I genuinely don't understand how THAT midfield can lose eight in a row. (I can't overstate how much I think we need to take the best midfielder we can with our first round pick this year, but that's a topic for another thread.)

 

I'll explain how:

-Max Gawn was barely moving after quarter time because he has a broken leg

- Clarry is severely lacking fitness and after a brilliant first half could no longer compete at the same level

- Rivers had a sensational first quarter, but has played 3 games as a midfielder and does not have the tank to play that role for 4 quarters. 

The difference between winning and losing that 2 point game, comes down to one thing, GWS had their best players able to perform for 4 quarters, and we did not. 

I love the guy to death and want to have his babies but I thought Max's rucking efforts early in the 4th quarter cost us the game.  Clearly hampered by the injury, trying to out-muscle Briggs who is built like a brick supermarket time and time again to lose clearance and give up 4 quick goals (one should have been a push free to May though) from centre bounce dominance was very frustrating.  Then after ANBs goal we go in and comprehensively lose the centre clearance AGAIN!  Amazing how much I have come to assume Max will win the majority of hit outs and get disproportionately frustrated when he doesn't. 

How often does a Maxie hitout lead to a Melbourne clearance? I suspect not often.

It seems to me that all other teams are better at winning the footy from packs. Not just ball ups and boundary throw ins but when the ball is brought to ground in marking contests and a pack forms. Very disheartening.

Max is vulnerable to large bodied ruckman who step in to take away his space.

They move to the centre line and body block Max from the ball. Grundy did it in Rd 1, Pittonet does it, Briggs does it

He hasn't really learned how to deal with it.

Added to that our mids cant read the signals

 

  On 29/07/2024 at 05:45, Jaded No More said:

I'll explain how:

-Max Gawn was barely moving after quarter time because he has a broken leg

- Clarry is severely lacking fitness and after a brilliant first half could no longer compete at the same level

- Rivers had a sensational first quarter, but has played 3 games as a midfielder and does not have the tank to play that role for 4 quarters. 

The difference between winning and losing that 2 point game, comes down to one thing, GWS had their best players able to perform for 4 quarters, and we did not. 

Bang on - we have a lot of young legs that are maturing into new roles or are maturing full stop.  Good signs for 2025 though

  On 29/07/2024 at 03:59, Hawk the Demon said:

One factor may have been a decision (I believe it was during the third quarter?) by the umpires to stop bouncing the ball. There had been a number of recalls during the game and even though there was no rain and this is the best oval in the country they made a decision to change that parameter of the game.  Max seems suited to the unpredictability of the bounce (I believe he has said that before). Once the umpires took to  just throwing it up Briggs took an aggressive position right on the line through the circle and Max was not jumping over him (perhaps related to his injury). Our centre clearance rate went south after that.

That is dead right. I noticed that. Max is so much better when the ball is bounced 

  On 29/07/2024 at 05:45, Jaded No More said:

I'll explain how:

-Max Gawn was barely moving after quarter time because he has a broken leg

- Clarry is severely lacking fitness and after a brilliant first half could no longer compete at the same level

- Rivers had a sensational first quarter, but has played 3 games as a midfielder and does not have the tank to play that role for 4 quarters. 

The difference between winning and losing that 2 point game, comes down to one thing, GWS had their best players able to perform for 4 quarters, and we did not. 

Christ almighty the excusing around here is gold to listen to. 

Do you think that every year we don't win a game of footy it's because of injury/umpires/the wind suddenly changed direction? 

  On 29/07/2024 at 07:10, tiers said:

How often does a Maxie hitout lead to a Melbourne clearance? I suspect not often.

Spot on. We only looked the goods when Luke Jackson took the CB's

  On 29/07/2024 at 08:26, middleagedemon said:

Christ almighty the excusing around here is gold to listen to. 

Do you think that every year we don't win a game of footy it's because of injury/umpires/the wind suddenly changed direction? 

Did I say that’s why we didn’t win? I was answering a question regarding our midfield performance in the last quarter. 
Can you tell me which “excuse” as you call it, you disagree with? 

  On 28/07/2024 at 23:35, The Taciturn Demon said:

Was I just imagining it, or was the centre square clearance work in the first quarter like watching a different team? 

I feel that not once but several times, the tap was aggressive and creative, and the resulting clearance was clean and incisive. 

After that, Max seemed to wane badly, but even when he did win taps, it was back to the same old same old: very conservative. And then the last quarter - what a disaster. I genuinely don't understand how THAT midfield can lose eight in a row. (I can't overstate how much I think we need to take the best midfielder we can with our first round pick this year, but that's a topic for another thread.)

Better footy judges might be able to give their thoughts.

Well observed, I was similarly in disbelief in that last quarter at how many clearances they won. 

Can't all be fatigue given we've been repeat offenders in that space this year. With Gawn in the side as well as Petracca and Oliver we've had games we're we've been comprehensively beaten at clearance. 

It's an issue that needs serious work in the off-season. 

Personally I think we need to become far more creative in how we utilise Gawn's strengths going forward and I think seeing him in less centre-bounces will be a good thing. We just need to find the right forward/ruck who can play in tandem with him and they need to stick at it. 

  On 29/07/2024 at 08:29, Jaded No More said:

Did I say that’s why we didn’t win? I was answering a question regarding our midfield performance in the last quarter. 
Can you tell me which “excuse” as you call it, you disagree with? 

You said the difference between winning and losing came down to GWS's best players ability to perform across four quarters didn't you? Insinuating that we didn't. And then you proceeded to explain why. Which was fatigue and inexperience to Gawn, Oliver and Rivers.

 

  On 29/07/2024 at 09:04, middleagedemon said:

You said the difference between winning and losing came down to GWS's best players ability to perform across four quarters didn't you? Insinuating that we didn't. And then you proceeded to explain why. Which was fatigue and inexperience to Gawn, Oliver and Rivers.

 

And there is a great deal of truth in it.

Rivers and Oliver clearly ran out of Puff 

And por Max looked like he was struggling from some ailment.

 

  On 28/07/2024 at 23:35, The Taciturn Demon said:

Was I just imagining it, or was the centre square clearance work in the first quarter like watching a different team? 

I feel that not once but several times, the tap was aggressive and creative, and the resulting clearance was clean and incisive. 

After that, Max seemed to wane badly, but even when he did win taps, it was back to the same old same old: very conservative. And then the last quarter - what a disaster. I genuinely don't understand how THAT midfield can lose eight in a row. (I can't overstate how much I think we need to take the best midfielder we can with our first round pick this year, but that's a topic for another thread.)

Better footy judges might be able to give their thoughts.

From the best midfield in the comp to one that's clearly struggled this year.

Jack Viney had a ripper season last year but has been well down on average disposals this year.

Oliver whilst showing signs of his old form faltered in the last quarter despite being our best player.

Even before Tracca was injured this year looked sluggish at times and would often take two quarters to reach top gear.

Sparrow well his season is summed up by his demotion so I don't include him.

So yes we need some new blood. Rivers has been great but needs more fitness. Kozzie is needed up fwd. I have hope for AmW to have a crack as with maybe young Brown.

We clearly won our flag from the three horsemen in Jack Tracca and Clarry.

The Gws  goals from clearances reminded me a little of the bang bang from the gf. 

Edited July 29, 2024Jul 29 by leave it to deever

  On 29/07/2024 at 09:04, middleagedemon said:

You said the difference between winning and losing came down to GWS's best players ability to perform across four quarters didn't you? Insinuating that we didn't. And then you proceeded to explain why. Which was fatigue and inexperience to Gawn, Oliver and Rivers.

 

Correct, and which part of that do you disagree with?

Their best players played better for longer. That is usually where games are won and lost.
Our best players IMO are Gawn, Trac, Clarry, May and Lever. Gawn is clearly struggling with his broken leg, Trac isn’t there, Clarry isn’t at his best for a variety of reasons including his fitness, May was struggling (reported to be under a cloud pre game- not sure how true), and Lever had a below average game. 
Certainly in a 2 point loss, the margin for error is so small that everything matters, but especially how well your best players perform. 

Max's inability (or unwillingness) to counter rucks who block his leap at centre bounces is becoming a real issue for us.

Clearly his foot injury was an issue on Saturday (realistically he wouldn't be playing if we had a suitable backup), but this tactic is something that has been successfully used against him numerous times this year.

I also don't think fatigue is an excuse for the way we line up at centre bounces. It was quite clear that we were prepared to give up front position throughout Saturday's game, which led to us being second to the ball for the most part. Combine that with Max's erratic hitouts and it's no surprise that we were belted at centre clearances.

When Oliver goes into the centre square i can't work out if he is tagging or being tagged. He just wrestles with them. Does it every week.

If he is just drawing an opposition player away from the clearance zone it worked well when he had Petracca going into the 2 on 2 but we don't have that luxury at the moment.

Gawn has a crack in his foot and hasn't taken a trade mark, pack mark in a month. 

Viney's body is catching up with him.

Gawn, Oliver and Viney legends of the club but not effective outside of their onball roles and not effective playing them at the moment at least to their level

  On 29/07/2024 at 05:45, Jaded No More said:

I'll explain how:

-Max Gawn was barely moving after quarter time because he has a broken leg

- Clarry is severely lacking fitness and after a brilliant first half could no longer compete at the same level

- Rivers had a sensational first quarter, but has played 3 games as a midfielder and does not have the tank to play that role for 4 quarters. 

The difference between winning and losing that 2 point game, comes down to one thing, GWS had their best players able to perform for 4 quarters, and we did not. 

Not quite as simple as that but these things are all true.