12 minutes ago, Macca said:

So Schache is a KPF & First ruck at the same time?

Remembering that T-Mac was subbed off at half time according to your judgement (so he can't come back on)

And if Gawn has to come off because of the broken toe he's probably off for good as well

We'd only have 3 on the interchange

 

Gee Macca you have just about shot yourself  in the foot now.

Tmac I have never suggested at half time but  in the third quarter say 15 mins in. 

Whatever happens from then is the unknown but a positive move to get some forward scores and give Gawny a rest is made. Or Max rests in the Forward pocket and Schache rucksxand changes forward also.

Remember Ted Hopkins bit different but Barass never would die wondering. That’s  my point no bravado Goody seems to afraid of losing and the team can play like that often. 
Macca you want or like something real well  I’ve offered my real solution, better the non solution offered by our  Match Cttee and Coach. 

Let’s please leave it there and move on to now. We might have the same situation in a months time if we keep getting injuries. 

9 minutes ago, 58er said:

Gee Macca you have just about shot yourself  in the foot now.

Tmac I have never suggested at half time but  in the third quarter say 15 mins in. 

Whatever happens from then is the unknown but a positive move to get some forward scores and give Gawny a rest is made. Or Max rests in the Forward pocket and Schache rucksxand changes forward also.

Remember Ted Hopkins bit different but Barass never would die wondering. That’s  my point no bravado Goody seems to afraid of losing and the team can play like that often. 
Macca you want or like something real well  I’ve offered my real solution, better the non solution offered by our  Match Cttee and Coach. 

Let’s please leave it there and move on to now. We might have the same situation in a months time if we keep getting injuries. 

If Gawn had to come off after T-Mac is already off we'd be down to 3 on the interchange 

And if Schache is the first ruck we'd have no KPF

You haven't thought this through as you've convinced yourself that we wasted the sub

Anyway, sleep on it and see if what I'm saying makes sense in the morning

If you get your head around Schache being the replacement for Gawn (primarily) then it follows that Schache might not get on the ground

And guess what?  That's what happened

Edited February 9, 20241 yr by Macca

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

You've shot yourself in the foot, 58er

If Gawn had to come off after T-Mac is already off we'd be down to 3 on the interchange 

And if Schache is the first ruck we'd have no KPF

You're either being stubborn or you haven't thought it through

Anyway, sleep on it and see if what I'm saying makes sense in the morning

Gawn coming off would be for a rest ( or he would have had to stay out there at FF. If not very fit) 

If he has had this  broken toe for a month or similar this Was the first time any Sub cover was provided!!  But to not use our 23 players  IMO was much more positive  than being caught with only 22 or 21  eligible players for a quarter or less say. 

Goody himself at the forum for supporters said all we needed is another goal in many games. 
Well Goody you had a chance to try and manufacture one but didn’t have the bravado to try by using your sub. 

So Macca you won’t convince me any way about this.And I have the result to back it up.

You only have Negative and complicated suggestions  of not trying to win with no action attempted to make a change because you are afraid of losing. We always had 23 players and never had any less than 21 for any of the last 40 mins of the game if a risk was made which could have been a  game changer. 

 

10 minutes ago, 58er said:

Gawn coming off would be for a rest ( or he would have had to stay out there at FF. If not very fit) 

If he has had this  broken toe for a month or similar this Was the first time any Sub cover was provided!!  But to not use our 23 players  IMO was much more positive  than being caught with only 22 or 21  eligible players for a quarter or less say. 

Goody himself at the forum for supporters said all we needed is another goal in many games. 
Well Goody you had a chance to try and manufacture one but didn’t have the bravado to try by using your sub. 

So Macca you won’t convince me any way about this.And I have the result to back it up.

You only have Negative and complicated suggestions  of not trying to win with no action attempted to make a change because you are afraid of losing. We always had 23 players and never had any less than 21 for any of the last 40 mins of the game if a risk was made which could have been a  game changer. 

 

Well, after analysing all the data, I believe the MC made the right decision to have Schache as the sub

Without Schache in reserve we'd have 1 ruckman in Gawn (with a broken toe) and 1 key position forward (T-Mac) who also had to act as the 2nd ruck

Let's say that we had Woewodin as the sub instead and then Gawn can't go on

Who rucks?  

Or if T-Mac couldn't go on, who's our KPF? 

Anyone, I'm not posting this up to change your mind.  That's a futile exercise

But others might be able to see my point and hopefully, make sense of it

Edited February 9, 20241 yr by Macca

1 minute ago, Macca said:

Well, after analysing all the data, I believe the club made the right decision to have Schache as the sub

Without Schache in reserve we'd have 1 ruckman in Gawn (with a broken toe) and 1 key position forward (T-Mac) who also had to act as the 2nd ruck

Let's say that we had Woewodin as the sub instead and then Gawn can't go on

Who rucks?  

Or if T-Mac couldn't go on, who's our KPF? 

Anyone, I'm not posting this up to change your mind.  That's a futile exercise

But others might be able to see my point and hopefully, make sense of it

Too many what if’s Macca thinking if the worst, courage and free thinking  are needed to win.

What ifs and afraid of losing  are symptomatic with lack of success. 

We have a choice and give me the first any day of the week. 

Just now, 58er said:

Too many what if’s Macca thinking if the worst, courage and free thinking  are needed to win.

What ifs and afraid of losing  are symptomatic with lack of success. 

We have a choice and give me the first any day of the week. 

We lost the game by 2 points, not 10 goals.  One kick in it

You'll be complaining about the SF loss to Carlton for the next 10 years by the sounds of it

Pardon me for not beating myself up over a loss

If it were the Bailey & Neeld years you'd be making a good point.  But back then we really were crud

My attitude is that we've still got a very good list with good coaching and the future is bright

We just need a bit of luck with injuries and we'll be right in it

And getting into contention doesn't guarantee success.  To win multiple flags requires getting into contention a heap of times

You're not always going to win it.  Flags are hard to win 

 

7 hours ago, Macca said:

We lost the game by 2 points, not 10 goals.  One kick in it

You'll be complaining about the SF loss to Carlton for the next 10 years by the sounds of it

Pardon me for not beating myself up over a loss

If it were the Bailey & Neeld years you'd be making a good point.  But back then we really were crud

My attitude is that we've still got a very good list with good coaching and the future is bright

We just need a bit of luck with injuries and we'll be right in it

And getting into contention doesn't guarantee success.  To win multiple flags requires getting into contention a heap of times

You're not always going to win it.  Flags are hard to win 

 

And you don’t win them by not being brave and making moves.  

The cover for Gawn’s broken toe line doesn’t stack up. He had it prior to the Collingwood game and Laurie was the sub. Schache was the sub was because we’d lost JVR and we knew TMac was little more than a big witches hat. The Schache decision felt like they were trying to cover multiple bases and in doing so covered none. It was a poor decision but again it wasn’t why we lost the game. 
 

We really should move on 😂

Edited February 9, 20241 yr by Roost it far

13 hours ago, Dee Boys said:

Seriously, can we all just put this McDonald/Schache semi final thing to bed? Just going round in circles now. Been done to death is an understatement 🙄

It would appear not - deaf ears and all that.

4 minutes ago, binman said:

It would appear not - deaf ears and all that.

We’re only talking about the last 2 games! 😂

42 minutes ago, binman said:

It would appear not

It won't be me but numerous others are going to bring up the non use of the sub (in the Carlton SF) in various threads in the future.  More so those who were dissatisfied with the outcome

Same as there is still the odd reference to perceived draft choice blunders (Toumpas/Wines) or even umpiring decisions (for instance, the last minute non decision against Adelaide in 2021 still gets brought up from time to time)

Besides which, the SF loss and why we lost is related to those here who are saying we will drop down the ladder

The back and forth happens because no one wants to give ground.  The arguments end up like how the 2 sides of politics argue

Like all those hundreds of player 'Loading' conversations ... in numerous threads back and forth and it seemed to go on forever (months)

At least this conversation on the non use of the sub has only been going for a couple of days

Edited February 9, 20241 yr by Macca

It is the media taking a punt after years of success that MFC will fall away. In the past this has been the case for many teams. Indeed the names that got us there are ageing and in some cases age has diminished them. Others have left. 

What, only track watchers would know is how the club have been quietly rebuilding and developing players to take the team forward. It takes time to develop players and toughen them up to the rigors of AFL. Bowey, Rivers, Picket, JVR, McVee, Chandler, Woewodin and Turner are the new core of the team who have taken time to make their mark. Laurie has taken 3 years, Howes could be anything and McAdam & Billings are ready made footballers. Schache was a top pick who is a big man still learning how to play and the other rucks are young. They take 5 years to develop. In Tholstrop, Windsor, Sestan and T. Brown there is another group of developing young guns.

First year players rarely walk straight in and dominate. Long term success depends on future planning, player development , team structure and a lot of luck.

The core structure is there, the leadership is still there and the list has lots of class. 

Footnote I still cannot believe Ginnivan, Frampton, Murphy, Lipinski, Markov and Hoskin-Elliot have a premiership medallion but their team play won them a flag.

Edited February 9, 20241 yr by Older demon

29 minutes ago, Macca said:

It won't be me but numerous others are going to bring up the non use of the sub (in the Carlton SF) in various threads in the future.  More so those who were dissatisfied with the outcome

Same as there is still the odd reference to perceived draft choice blunders (Toumpas/Wines) or even umpiring decisions (for instance, the last minute non decision against Adelaide in 2021 still gets brought up from time to time)

Besides which, the SF loss and why we lost is related to those here who are saying we will drop down the ladder

The back and forth happens because no one wants to give ground.  The arguments end up like how the 2 sides of politics argue

Like all those hundreds of player 'Loading' conversations ... in numerous threads back and forth and it seemed to go on forever (months)

At least this conversation on the non use of the sub has only been going for a couple of days

Is that a less than subtle dig at Binman's love of loading? If we get busy on it now we can have the loading issue sorted prior to the start of the season. :)

7 minutes ago, Older demon said:

It is the media taking a punt after years of success that MFC will fall away. In the past this has been the case for many teams. Indeed the names that got us there are ageing and in some cases age has diminished them. Others have left. 

What, only track watchers would know is how the club have been quietly rebuilding and developing players to take the team forward. It takes time to develop players and toughen them up to the rigors of AFL. Bowey, Rivers, Picket, JVR, McVee, Chandler, Woewodin and Turner are the new core of the team who have taken time to make their mark. Laurie has taken 3 years, Howes could be anything and McAdam & Billings are ready made footballers. Schache was a top pick who is a big man still learning how to play and the other rucks are young. They take 5 years to develop. In Tholstrop, Windsor, Sestan and T. Brown there is another group of developing young guns.

First year players rarely walk straight in and dominate. Long term success depends on future planning, player development , team structure and a lot of luck.

The core structure is there, the leadership is still there and the list has lots of class. 

Footnote I still cannot believe Ginnivan, Frampton, Murphy, Lipinski, Markov and Hoskin-Elliot have a premiership medallion but their team play won them a flag.

And won't Harley Reid and JUH/Ben King round that next group off nicely.

36 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Is that a less than subtle dig at Binman's love of loading? If we get busy on it now we can have the loading issue sorted prior to the start of the season. :)

It wasn't a subtle dig, there was no subtlety about it!

Those loading conversations were monstrous and I'm not sure that we ever came to any sort on consensus on the subject matter

Just a whole lot of back & forth

Actually, the conversations on loading didn't particularly bother me because if we shut down debate, we may as well close the site

I will defend the rights of those who I disagree with

At this stage teams talk about making the finals so far only NM and West Coast have not been mentioned therefore early season wins will take on a new meaning as clubs jockey for the place in the 8.

All the talk is about how good Carlton and Collingwood are but they forget Brisbane and GWS played in the Preliminary finals, had Melbourne on the other hand scored 2 more goals against Collingwood in the Semi-Final then who knows who would have been premiers?

21 hours ago, Roost it far said:

why wasn’t Grundy the sub? 

Why? Because…

19 hours ago, binman said:

he had he checked out. 

And perhaps more than that was hesitant, even if only sub consciously, to play for fear of getting injured and scuttling the trade to the Swans. 

Even in those circumstances you'd think they might still play him.

And they may well have selected him…

IF HE’D WANTED TO BE SELECTED

44 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Why? Because…

And they may well have selected him…

IF HE’D WANTED TO BE SELECTED

What are insinuating WCW? And if you know something why haven’t you mentioned this before for goodness sake? My god girl, it’s only been 5 months since the event! 

2 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Why? Because…

And they may well have selected him…

IF HE’D WANTED TO BE SELECTED

Heresay at best

The grundy-schache-goody finals discussion is just a cover story for the re sparked MFCSS from last season. Take a breath and get ready to support our team this year, dwelling in the past is no service to anyone.

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Heresay at best

Well, unless WCW is actually Brodie Grundy, or Brodie has talked to her directly, how could it be anything else? 

30 minutes ago, binman said:

Well, unless WCW is actually Brodie Grundy, or Brodie has talked to her directly, how could it be anything else? 

I just noticed several posters alluding to the fact he wasn’t picked ahead of Schache because of some  prearranged agreement or he “‘checked out” I’d say it rare for a player to not want to play in a big final but who knows??

Edited February 10, 20241 yr by Roost it far

On 09/02/2024 at 16:41, Macca said:

No it's not that

We took a chance on T-Mac and it didn't work.  We had no other KPF's other than Schache and as a KPF, Schache has done virtually nothing

So even a banged up T-Mac is better than Schache

TMac was a complete non event against The Filth. His Back was shot.

To play him a 2nd time in the same role against Carlscum was unforgivable, when we had 2 fit replacements sitting watching the game. 
 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

TMac was a complete non event against The Filth. His Back was shot.

To play him a 2nd time in the same role against Carlscum was unforgivable, when we had 2 fit replacements sitting watching the game. 
 

I can see why they took a chance on T-Mac but we probably needed to play some sort of other big-bodied key forward as well

But if that other KPF was needed to play in front, put his body on the line and take the punishment, I'm not sure it would have been Schache

We could have thrown Tomlinson forward and brought Turner into the 22 (in the backline)

I'm a big believer in having 2 KPF's who can do the hard yards (especially in finals)

Even Collingwood were prepared to bring in a big body like Frampton even though he's a fairly ordinary footballer

But big bodied forwards require match-ups and attention.  If you don't play them close they can take grabs and become more than nuisance value

And if they can take the front position and bring the ball to ground, the smalls can capitalise

3rd & 4th forwards such as Fritsch & Smith can't be expected to play that sort of role.  They haven't got the body strength to carry out such a task

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Heresay at best

Or maybe it’s… “her” say 😅