5 minutes ago, 58er said:

You obviously don't look when the ball is being delivered Old 55 It is part of the problem as the passing is  bog low Not up to par and is up in the air to the wrong  side of the forwards etc etc.

Then the accuracy issue begins.  Some existing forwards are nervy and inconsistent. Petracca on set shots is not confident with time to kick well consistently.Fortunately Harry Petty looks a lovely kick and JVR is good as he mostly has the distance covered. and Joel Smith pretty good but sample size not large as yet. 

Jack Viney average field kick and also goal, Clarry  needs more goal kicking to become reliable and Sparrow good generall snd from 50m. 

Gawny is terrible snd needs to practice ALL summer long.  His field kicking not the worst. 

Needs to be treated as special for all players over the previous season. 

I'll make sure to look in future, thanks. 16.28 is not mainly about ball delivery.

Edited September 19, 20231 yr by old55

Whether you like it or not, our game plan is centred around winning contest almost all of the time and hustling the ball forward. Make no mistake, this is by design. 

You can’t have it all. If we trade in an elite user to sit on the outside oppo’s will just lock them down. 

I think we are better off finding a way to deal with the chaos entries rather than re-architecting our midfield. I know everyone’s memory seems to be very short lately, but we won a flag and finished top 4 3 years in a row with this game plan. To suggest it doesn’t stack up makes no sense. 
 

We need a better run injuries wise and for our small forwards like kozzy to learn how to impact big games and then we’re are right in the box seat again. 
 

Both Preliminary Finals have shown how vital it is to have players who are elite decision makers and excellent kicks in our team.

Players like....

Keidean Coleman

Nick Daicos

Steele Sidebottom

Josh Kelly

Lachie Whitfield

Sam Walsh

 

We definitely need to recruit players with their abilities!

4 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Both Preliminary Finals have shown how vital it is to have players who are elite decision makers and excellent kicks in our team.

Players like....

Keidean Coleman

Nick Daicos

Steele Sidebottom

Josh Kelly

Lachie Whitfield

Sam Walsh

 

We definitely need to recruit players with their abilities!

Sure, no doubt, but we had the Pies, had that thug Maynard not cleaned up Brayshaw we may well be scrambling for Gf tickets

23 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Both Preliminary Finals have shown how vital it is to have players who are elite decision makers and excellent kicks in our team.

We definitely need to recruit players with their abilities!

they don't grow on trees, as per the players you outlined, but they do tend to only be available at the very pointy end of the draft:

• Keidean Coleman - pick 37 academy selection
• Nick Daicos - pick 4 father-son
• Steele Sidebottom - pick 11 (in 2008 - has been playing at an elite level for 15 seasons!)
• Josh Kelly - pick 2
• Lachie Whitfield - pick 1
• Sam Walsh - pick 1

Keidean Coleman is the perfect example for any footballer. Looks up straight away and his eyes never stray from scouting his delivery options.

What a croc of s...

4 hours ago, rjay said:

What a croc of s...

Look at you and binman's PA 'liking' this post. 

You're all in this little echo chamber that goes around and around thinking we're unstoppable, our list is untouchable and our game-plan impenetrable.. But look at how foolish you look after two straight finals exits.. 

The main contributing factor being an inability to finish and execute!! Whether that is on goal or entering 50 with a kick under no pressure! 

Please outline what is a croc of [censored] about this OP given the EVIDENCEEEEE. 

The arrogance of one-eyed Melbourne supporters is baffling sometimes! Get out of your echo chamber! 

4 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Look at you and binman's PA 'liking' this post. 

You're all in this little echo chamber that goes around and around thinking we're unstoppable, our list is untouchable and our game-plan impenetrable.. But look at how foolish you look after two straight finals exits.. 

The main contributing factor being an inability to finish and execute!! Whether that is on goal or entering 50 with a kick under no pressure! 

Please outline what is a croc of [censored] about this OP given the EVIDENCEEEEE. 

The arrogance of one-eyed Melbourne supporters is baffling sometimes! Get out of your echo chamber! 

Ah young 'Jimmy', your profiling is way off the mark.

I believe the problem is a little more nuanced than what you say.

The finishing, kicking on goal...yes, we miss some easy shots & our focus is drawn to this because of the scoreboard.

Our opponents also miss easy shots, look at Elliot for instance in the game against C/wood.

Our lopsided scoreboard is a function of the game plan which in turn means where we are taking shots from (poor positions) & the congestion in our forward half (taking unrealistic shots & shots under pressure).

Injury has been a big factor in how we've had to play, adjustment has been made through the season and as soon as we think we have found an answer. particularly forward then injury thwarts it.

I think our biggest issue is a lack of quality forwards, it's why we play the way we play.

To think that Clarry, Trac & Gus only know how to bomb the ball forward is just dumb thinking, it's done under instruction.

You can argue that the instruction is wrong but I would put to you when we had a fit target (Petty) in the forward half we didn't bomb the ball nearly as much. We opened our game out a bit more because we could score but it also cost us going the other way.

When we didn't have this option we couldn't afford to open the game up as we would have been scored against more heavily but without the ability to hit the scoreboard ourselves.

Could we do with quality decision makers, yes every club can do with that but I think it's quality forwards that we lack and  the flow on from that is how we play the game.

I've thought all season we didn't have the list to win it, our pop gun attack just didn't stack up but for all that we should have finished top 2 bar the Carlton cheating & AFL incompetence. Then we were so close in both finals.

A fit Petty and maybe we could have stolen it this year. 

Fix the forward half, adjust the game plan revitalise the list this draft/trade period and we're off and running again.

So no, I've never believed the hype of this list being great.

We're a good team, with some great players. Not a great team...

 

 

2 hours ago, rjay said:

Ah young 'Jimmy', your profiling is way off the mark.

I believe the problem is a little more nuanced than what you say.

The finishing, kicking on goal...yes, we miss some easy shots & our focus is drawn to this because of the scoreboard.

Our opponents also miss easy shots, look at Elliot for instance in the game against C/wood.

Our lopsided scoreboard is a function of the game plan which in turn means where we are taking shots from (poor positions) & the congestion in our forward half (taking unrealistic shots & shots under pressure).

Injury has been a big factor in how we've had to play, adjustment has been made through the season and as soon as we think we have found an answer. particularly forward then injury thwarts it.

I think our biggest issue is a lack of quality forwards, it's why we play the way we play.

To think that Clarry, Trac & Gus only know how to bomb the ball forward is just dumb thinking, it's done under instruction.

You can argue that the instruction is wrong but I would put to you when we had a fit target (Petty) in the forward half we didn't bomb the ball nearly as much. We opened our game out a bit more because we could score but it also cost us going the other way.

When we didn't have this option we couldn't afford to open the game up as we would have been scored against more heavily but without the ability to hit the scoreboard ourselves.

Could we do with quality decision makers, yes every club can do with that but I think it's quality forwards that we lack and  the flow on from that is how we play the game.

I've thought all season we didn't have the list to win it, our pop gun attack just didn't stack up but for all that we should have finished top 2 bar the Carlton cheating & AFL incompetence. Then we were so close in both finals.

A fit Petty and maybe we could have stolen it this year. 

Fix the forward half, adjust the game plan revitalise the list this draft/trade period and we're off and running again.

So no, I've never believed the hype of this list being great.

We're a good team, with some great players. Not a great team...

 

 

Agreed. It's about quality in the forward half. It'd be great to have more quality ball users, but I'd like to be on a weekly wage like Mo Salah.

I'd much prefer we strengthen our forward and back half to maximise what our current mids are the best in the competition at, and that's winning contested ball and owning territory.

If you have a more dangerous forwardline, the repeated opportunities become much harder to defend for the opposition. And if your defence is better, you don't leak goals back the other way if we do decide to play more offensively.

Goodwin has had two eras. The first was a highly offensive era and the second has been marked by a highly defensive focus. I'd back him to read the tea leaves again.

But of course old mate would be reductive and black and white about all this. He's all in on the black and white. 

Edited September 24, 20231 yr by Binmans PA

6 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

But of course old mate would be reductive and black and white about all this. He's all in on the black and white. 

The interesting thing with Black & White is the flair has gone from their game.

The risk takers are now ultra defensive and scared to take on the corridor.

8.10 & 9.6 in their last 2 games...and very lucky to get a result in both.

GWS were ripped off by the umpiring on Friday night, it was sad to watch as the free flowing C/wood forced pile on after pile on aided by umpires afraid to make a decision.

47 minutes ago, rjay said:

The interesting thing with Black & White is the flair has gone from their game.

The risk takers are now ultra defensive and scared to take on the corridor.

8.10 & 9.6 in their last 2 games...and very lucky to get a result in both.

GWS were ripped off by the umpiring on Friday night, it was sad to watch as the free flowing C/wood forced pile on after pile on aided by umpires afraid to make a decision.

And now they get to play an interstate team with a horrible record at the MCG.

Will Brisbane kick straight enough, and score from stoppage as they have?

BTW, who are the elite users in Brisbane's midfield this week? McLuggage on the wing....?

Edited September 24, 20231 yr by Binmans PA

2 hours ago, rjay said:

Ah young 'Jimmy', your profiling is way off the mark.

I believe the problem is a little more nuanced than what you say.

The finishing, kicking on goal...yes, we miss some easy shots & our focus is drawn to this because of the scoreboard.

Our opponents also miss easy shots, look at Elliot for instance in the game against C/wood.

Our lopsided scoreboard is a function of the game plan which in turn means where we are taking shots from (poor positions) & the congestion in our forward half (taking unrealistic shots & shots under pressure).

Injury has been a big factor in how we've had to play, adjustment has been made through the season and as soon as we think we have found an answer. particularly forward then injury thwarts it.

I think our biggest issue is a lack of quality forwards, it's why we play the way we play.

To think that Clarry, Trac & Gus only know how to bomb the ball forward is just dumb thinking, it's done under instruction.

You can argue that the instruction is wrong but I would put to you when we had a fit target (Petty) in the forward half we didn't bomb the ball nearly as much. We opened our game out a bit more because we could score but it also cost us going the other way.

When we didn't have this option we couldn't afford to open the game up as we would have been scored against more heavily but without the ability to hit the scoreboard ourselves.

Could we do with quality decision makers, yes every club can do with that but I think it's quality forwards that we lack and  the flow on from that is how we play the game.

I've thought all season we didn't have the list to win it, our pop gun attack just didn't stack up but for all that we should have finished top 2 bar the Carlton cheating & AFL incompetence. Then we were so close in both finals.

A fit Petty and maybe we could have stolen it this year. 

Fix the forward half, adjust the game plan revitalise the list this draft/trade period and we're off and running again.

So no, I've never believed the hype of this list being great.

We're a good team, with some great players. Not a great team...

 

 

Mate, the nuance missed is you lot completely missing the fact that our players just do not kick to the advantage of a forward or take one more step to execute better often enough. Did you see the stat of the top 10 worst kicks on the comp? Explain to me the nuance? Of course Goody instructs ball movement to a point. But if you think that every kick going inside 50 is to do with Goody's instructio, who is missing the nuance here? 

It's this place. It's just too pro-Melbourne. The amount of vision shown of players who just completely ignore free lead up players, an extra handball or an angle kick is mind boggling. How have you not seen this? Or do you refuse to watch vision/hear opinion outside of Demonland? 

1 hour ago, Binmans PA said:

Agreed. It's about quality in the forward half. It'd be great to have more quality ball users, but I'd like to be on a weekly wage like Mo Salah.

I'd much prefer we strengthen our forward and back half to maximise what our current mids are the best in the competition at, and that's winning contested ball and owning territory.

If you have a more dangerous forwardline, the repeated opportunities become much harder to defend for the opposition. And if your defence is better, you dont leak goals back the other way if we don't decide to play more offensively.

Goodwin has had two eras. The first was a highly offensive era and the second has been marked by a highly defensive focus. I'd back him to read the tea leaves again.

But of course old mate would be reductive and black and white about all this. He's all in on the black and white. 

As for your territory argument. Lol. 

A big part of why we leak goals is because of the predictable areas we kick to on slow play and going inside 50 and where we turn the ball over going inside. We own territory. It's got nothing to do with territory! 

We've owned territory for years now and yet the same problems have existed for the same amount of years! How can it be our defence when we've gone from having Omac and Frost to Lever and May? 

You've lost the plot. 

Our problems are completely to with our inefficiency going forward. 

 

Edited September 24, 20231 yr by JimmyGadson

1 minute ago, JimmyGadson said:

As for your territory argument. Lol. 

A big part of why we leak goals is because of the predictable areas we kick to on slow play and going inside 50!! We own territory. It's got nothing to do with territory! 

We've owned territory for years now and yet the same problems have existed for the same amount of years! How can it be our defence when we've gone from having Omac and Frost to Lever and May? 

You've lost the plot. 

Our problems are completely to with our inefficiency going forward. 

 

We would not need repeat entries if our efficiency entering and using it in the forward 50 was better...  

8 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

And now they get to play an interstate team with a horrible record at the MCG.

Will Brisbane kick straight enough, and score from stoppage as they have?

BTW, who are the elite users in Brisbane's midfield this week? McLuggage on the wing....?

Haha.

You can't be serious.

Elite ball users also equal elite finishes. 

Compare our forwardline and midfield to Brisbane's and you'll see a big difference in ability to 'finish'. 

Whether that's a kick going inside 50 or ability to convert shots on goal.

Keep digging. 

11 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

As for your territory argument. Lol. 

A big part of why we leak goals is because of the predictable areas we kick to on slow play and going inside 50 and where we turn the ball over going inside. We own territory. It's got nothing to do with territory! 

We've owned territory for years now and yet the same problems have existed for the same amount of years! How can it be our defence when we've gone from having Omac and Frost to Lever and May? 

You've lost the plot. 

Our problems are completely to with our inefficiency going forward. 

 

Our forward inefficiency problem is exacerbated by poor forward personnel...

10 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Haha.

You can't be serious.

Elite ball users also equal elite finishes. 

Compare our forwardline and midfield to Brisbane's and you'll see a big difference in ability to 'finish'. 

Whether that's a kick going inside 50 or ability to convert shots on goal.

Keep digging. 

This is exactly my point and others. Brisbane have an elite forwardline, with great clutch finishers everywhere. We do not, aside from Fritta and Kozzy...

FMD, do you read what you post? You're on your little train track and can't get off it.

1 minute ago, Binmans PA said:

Our forward inefficiency problem is exacerbated by poor forward personnel...

I agree I don't think we have a potent enough forwardline. But when it works... And worked, without Petty and Fritsch. What are you putting that down to? 

I just can't understand how posters don't see that Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Langdon are all massive contributors to wasted forward entries. Like seriously. How do you not see this? 

It's a combination, but if supporters are really sticking their feet in due to some weird 'elite status untouchable' tag that supporters are putting on our mids, you've got rocks and it's embarrassing because you're overrating our midfield. 

History has shown that it doesn't matter how much contested football you win if you can't seal games of footy. How can this be argued given the types of losses we've seen from our side? 

You're all crazy and are drunk on MFC. 

26 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Mate, the nuance missed is you lot completely missing the fact that our players just do not kick to the advantage of a forward or take one more step to execute better often enough. Did you see the stat of the top 10 worst kicks on the comp? Explain to me the nuance? Of course Goody instructs ball movement to a point. But if you think that every kick going inside 50 is to do with Goody's instructio, who is missing the nuance here? 

It's this place. It's just too pro-Melbourne. The amount of vision shown of players who just completely ignore free lead up players, an extra handball or an angle kick is mind boggling. How have you not seen this? Or do you refuse to watch vision/hear opinion outside of Demonland? 

Spot on. Schache was completely ignored in the game I saw him play. Team mates can easily be the difference between kicking 1 and playing average and kicking 3 and holding your spot. 

1 hour ago, rjay said:

The interesting thing with Black & White is the flair has gone from their game.

The risk takers are now ultra defensive and scared to take on the corridor.

8.10 & 9.6 in their last 2 games...and very lucky to get a result in both.

GWS were ripped off by the umpiring on Friday night, it was sad to watch as the free flowing C/wood forced pile on after pile on aided by umpires afraid to make a decision.

Giants needed to take the chance and punch a ball forward of the ruck contest, or kick it off the ground to space. Tapping it down killed them.

7 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

This is exactly my point and others. Brisbane have an elite forwardline, with great clutch finishers everywhere. We do not, aside from Fritta and Kozzy...

FMD, do you read what you post? You're on your little train track and can't get off it.

Zorko, McCluggage, Neale, Coleman. 

All have better composure, kicking and decision making than any of our group. They all play majority centre and centre back of forward. 

Wanna go back and look at the top 10 worst kicks in the comp? We have three. 

Clearly, it's more than just forward. 

4 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Giants needed to take the chance and punch a ball forward of the ruck contest, or kick it off the ground to space. Tapping it down killed them.

Yep, but sometimes it's just not that easy when the ball is allowed to be played in such a small space.

I thought the umpiring was really poor.

5 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Zorko, McCluggage, Neale, Coleman. 

All have better composure, kicking and decision making than any of our group. They all play majority centre and centre back of forward. 

Wanna go back and look at the top 10 worst kicks in the comp? We have three. 

Clearly, it's more than just forward. 

Stats can often make you look like a fool 'Jimmy'...

Just out of interest, how many games have you coached?

1 minute ago, rjay said:

I thought the umpiring was really poor.

Yeh. Both ways. 

Collingwood won because of their 19th man.