POSTGAME: Rd 18 vs Brisbane

[Slartibartfast 17,277]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

So there you go putting words in my mouth again

I never said anything of the sort

Give it up, you might have most of this site on your side but your logic skills are negligible

Macca I class myself as one who doesn't go round blaming umpires and if I could be bothered to look I think you'd find posts where I've defended them.  

I also had an excellent view of the incident and I thought it was a terrible decision.  I thought May put his hands on Daniher, one in the side and the other on the side of his back, to hold him out, not to push him. As far as I'm aware that's quite legal. When Daniher flung himself forward May's hand held their position, they didn't push him.

Daniher has form.  Earlier in the match he tried to milk a 50m penalty.  May was unset with the decision because he knew he didn't push him.  Daniher had misjudged the ball and May was peeling back to take the mark.

As you and I would agree, it's an impossible game to umpire and my explanation above is full of judgement's I can't be sure of.  You saw the same thing and have a completely different interpretation, just as valid as mine, but I think you're very wrong.

Let people have their opinions. Oh, and for the record, the only time I've ever wondered if the umpires cheat was the 2016 GF where the Dogs (everyone's favourites) got a dream run that was hard to explain and was a continuation of their "good fortune in the PF the week before.

[dino rover 714]

42 minutes ago, layzie said:

Was very impressed with his efforts in ruck and would be all for this. Couple of marks from him up the ground would help immensely. 

 

O Mc like many rucks doesn’t jump in the ruck contest 

JVR jumps and that means his height disadvantage is lessened 

he uses his body well but I’d rather have a 2m sized fwd ruck than him at what 1.95?

[layzie 33,801]

2 hours ago, Macca said:

I just watched the replay of the May push and if that isn't a free kick to Daniher then pushing in the back will never be paid

It was so obvious and why is May complaining?  Probably caught up in the heat of the moment but nonetheless, he made an error

Not the crime of the century either, he just simply made an error and right in front of the umpire.  A brain fade but again, not a hanging offence

But we want our tribe to win and the officials (umpires) are seen as untrustworthy and on-the-take.  Of course, none if that is true but if a football fan reaches adulthood with a hatred of umpires, they are unlikely to ever change their minds

Why? Because they are surrounded by confirmation bias for their entire lives

People like me are dismissed out of hand and largely ignored.  I become the enemy haha

But the umpires are treated as the enemy far more so than opposition teams.  Which doesn't make sense if people think about about it and apply some logic

I was down that end of the ground and my instant thought was that May used too much force in his action. I did think Daniher got some good orange juice out of it and it could have been partially in the side but when you extend the arms that far and quick you're inviting trouble.

I hear a lot of people say they want consistency and I would love nothing more myself but the arguments for consistency in umpiring are almost always taking 1 single decision and comparing with another single decision during the course a game. We have to accept the fact that there are varying degrees of umpiring consistency and that near enough is probably going to have to be good enough. 

[Katrina Dee Fan 3,693]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:45 PM, Deemania since 56 said:

Who needs Viagra?

So not going there.....

[SPC 3,549]

Dees win a thriller with key personal out and the narrative is all about how bad our decision is to trade Grundy in.. cool!!! 

[Willmoy1947 4,088]

6 minutes ago, dino rover said:

O Mc like many rucks doesn’t jump in the ruck contest 

JVR jumps and that means his height disadvantage is lessened 

he uses his body well but I’d rather have a 2m sized fwd ruck than him at what 1.95?

Blicavs is under 200cms, i had to check, and he was pretty good last year. So i think JVR will be our answer.

[Macca 16,969]

1 minute ago, Slartibartfast said:

Macca I class myself as one who doesn't go round blaming umpires and if I could be bothered to look I think you'd find posts where I've defended them.  

I also had an excellent view of the incident and I thought it was a terrible decision.  I thought May put his hands on Daniher, one in the side and the other on the side of his back, to hold him out, not to push him. As far as I'm aware that's quite legal. When Daniher flung himself forward May's hand held their position, they didn't push him.

Daniher has form.  Earlier in the match he tried to milk a 50m penalty.  May was unset with the decision because he knew he didn't push him.  Daniher had misjudged the ball and May was peeling back to take the mark.

As you and I would agree, it's an impossible game to umpire and my explanation above is full of judgement's I can't be sure of.  You saw the same thing and have a completely different interpretation, just as valid as mine, but I think you're very wrong.

Let people have their opinions. Oh, and for the record, the only time I've ever wondered if the umpires cheat was the 2016 GF where the Dogs (everyone's favourites) got a dream run that was hard to explain and was a continuation of their "good fortune in the PF the week before.

Re the 2016 GF, I thought that the Doggies took advantage of the then rules & interpretations.  They did nothing illegal as I reckon they just played to the whistle

As for the May incident, Daniher may well have accentuated the contact but from my vantage point (forward pocket 40 metres away) I saw a hefty shove from May

My first reaction was ... "Why do that May?"

Now, you and others can see things differently but I urge people to look at the replay ... 3 minutes into the last quarterI

And our players accentuate contact as well ... Kozzie, Spargo, Clarrie, ANB etc

I'll say it again, aim to be a good team that plays well and is well coached ... do that and you will win

So if you're not a good team, you leave yourself open to being beaten by the grey area rules, umpire interpretations and the like

In other words, take as much doubt out as possible.  Be a 5 goal better team

 

 

[von 1,567]

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Here's the thing

People like you (and there are hundreds of 1000's like you) can choose to spend your entire lives whinging and moaning about how the game is umpired or you can choose not to

There's no cheating, that's never happened.  The umpires have an impossible task and you all should have realised that by now ... actually, past the age of 12 that realisation should have kicked in

I don't have an agenda either, I made my mind up over 5 decades ago

But most of the rest of you are so far gone there's no changing your mind

You're triggered by all the so-called injustice.  And all for what?  So you can have a whinge?

By and large, the game is umpired quite well

I've done this with mates so I'm going to do it here ... I'll give anyone here $10k if they can ever prove (real proof required) that the umpires have ever cheated against your football club

Cash!  In your hot little hands.  It's not a bet, I'll happily hand over the money

So hop to it, there's easy money to be made (supposedly)

Only quote me if you've got the proof (that the umpires cheat)

Trying to change my mind is a fruitless exercise.  As it's a fruitless exercise to change your minds

But I'm entitled to my opinion even if it does make your blood boil

I'm baffled that more people here haven't come to the same conclusion that I did all those years ago ... but what we've got is group thinking on a massive scale

"The umpires hate us, they really do.  They've always hated us, they are cheats, they really are.  Something has to be done!"

All nonsense based on caveman instincts - tribe related

Try watching the game for a month whilst at the same time ignoring all questionable decisions.  Do that and you'll be well on your way to accepting how things are

You'll feel liberated, I'll guarantee it

Afterwards, you'll wonder why you didn't make the switch a long time ago

Watch the game, not how the game is officiated.  Unless you do that, you're not actually watching the sport properly

In the meantime, there's $10k to be had ... hop to it

Do you think umpires try to keep games closer than they otherwise might be when one team is starting to get away from the other? There is evidence in other sports that this is true. The money made by the afl per gambling dollar spent is hard to ignore. The closer the game the more money spent. They don’t cheat against us, but they manipulate outcomes generally to maximise profit when they can. 

[Willmoy1947 4,088]

On the umpiring issue. Everyone knows where i stand, and i have a favourite Umpire as well, who we hardly ever get of course.

Do umpires square up after a bad decision?

Do umpires punish some and not others?

Do umpires bounce balls in such a way to aid some run ups and penalize opponents?

Do umpires affect BL voting detrimentally?

[Macca 16,969]

7 minutes ago, layzie said:

I was down that end of the ground and my instant thought was that May used too much force in his action. I did think Daniher got some good orange juice out of it and it could have been partially in the side but when you extend the arms that far and quick you're inviting trouble.

I hear a lot of people say they want consistency and I would love nothing more myself but the arguments for consistency in umpiring are almost always taking 1 single decision and comparing with another single decision during the course a game. We have to accept the fact that there are varying degrees of umpiring consistency and that near enough is probably going to have to be good enough. 

If you and I were umpiring and say 2 others here, we'd all see any incident differently

For instance, I do not like soft high contact free kicks so I may not pay many.  Those who play for free kicks wouldn't get much joy from me either

And you know what, I'm betting you'd be different and the other 2 would be different again

Why?  Because we aren't robots and we all have different personalities and views

So you won't get consistency and besides all that, the rules are nearly all grey anyway

[Macca 16,969]

2 minutes ago, von said:

Do you think umpires try to keep games closer than they otherwise might be when one team is starting to get away from the other? There is evidence in other sports that this is true. The money made by the afl per gambling dollar spent is hard to ignore. The closer the game the more money spent. They don’t cheat against us, but they manipulate outcomes generally to maximise profit when they can. 

No, I just don't view sport that way

I bet on the horses and there's no conspiracy theories in the sport of kings either

Problem gamblers blame jockeys ... never done it

[layzie 33,801]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

No, I just don't view sport that way

I bet on the horses and there's no conspiracy theories in the sport of kings either

Problem gamblers blame jockeys ... never done it

Haha aren't jockeys the last person to blame in racing? From my limited racing knowledge if you're a great jockey but you're riding a donkey you have no chance!

[buck_nekkid 5,858]

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Haha aren't jockeys the last person to blame in racing? From my limited racing knowledge if you're a great jockey but you're riding a donkey you have no chance!

All you have is two a$$es…

[von 1,567]

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

No, I just don't view sport that way

I bet on the horses and there's no conspiracy theories in the sport of kings either

Problem gamblers blame jockeys ... never done it

But there is proof that in the nba this happened over a period of years. It has been stated by referees themselves, investigated by the fbi. There are many parallels between the way gambling Money exists within the two sports. There are also examples of match fixing in sport throughout history. Sounds like you’ve taken on an ideology not unlike those who think the umpires are specifically against us. Lots happens in five decades. For example, gambling money floods the sport and holds a lot of power over the game. For what it’s worth I agree that your version of watching the game and ignoring the umpiring is the best way to watch the game. I just don’t think it’s true.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I think if Daniher wasn’t such a diving cheat to begin with, you’d probably just give him the benefit of the doubt. But he is a joke of a footballer when it comes to exaggerating contact. It’s a blight on the game. 

[Macca 16,969]

4 minutes ago, layzie said:

Haha aren't jockeys the last person to blame in racing? From my limited racing knowledge if you're a great jockey but you're riding a donkey you have no chance!

Believe me, punters blame jockeys when their hard-earned is involved.  Trainers get blamed and even racetracks ("They run the wrong way up in Sydney" ... heard that a lot)

We talk through our hip-pockets and footy supporters are heavily invested too.  And lets face it, a lot of us are bad losers

Even on the other game threads the umpires cop it left right and centre.  Hip pocket?  Probably

For instance, the Cats & Pies are hated here so when the frees go their way, the thread erupts

[Fritta and Turner 4,415]

46 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

An instance of an AFL umpire cheating would be as unlikely as a Pope covering up a serious assault at the Vatican...

As an aside, I have heard the Pope barracks for the Saints.

[Macca 16,969]

4 minutes ago, von said:

But there is proof that in the nba this happened over a period of years. It has been stated by referees themselves, investigated by the fbi. There are many parallels between the way gambling Money exists within the two sports. There are also examples of match fixing in sport throughout history. Sounds like you’ve taken on an ideology not unlike those who think the umpires are specifically against us. Lots happens in five decades. For example, gambling money floods the sport and holds a lot of power over the game. For what it’s worth I agree that your version of watching the game and ignoring the umpiring is the best way to watch the game. I just don’t think it’s true.

I could not watch footy if the umpires did my head in.  I'd find another sport to watch

I played a lot of sport (albeit as a hack) but I never once crossed swords with an umpire ... 50 seasons worth over 30 years

Was taught from an early age to play to your best and respect the umpires.  Lots of success too

So as a spectator, I'm no different.  I'm not perfect by any means but sport isn't life & death to me

[Fritta and Turner 4,415]

23 hours ago, Pates said:

I usually don't mind Underwood as a host of a show and chat guest, but that is the dumbest comment she may have ever made (if she said it). In the rooms May and Melksham were arm in arm and May was getting around him more than any other player.

If she said it she should actually apologise because that's creating a narrative that doesn't exist.

Yeah in the rooms May greeted Melky with much excitement and they stood together for the song.

[layzie 33,801]

I’ve watched the last quarter twice and am still stumped how we did it. We started winning a bit more contested footy and clearances but it's so hard to see what changed. We took some more risks.

I think Brisbane did go into their shell a bit too early and after looking so confident since the end of the first quarter they started looking scared, missing short options and just banging it long out of their backline. A comeback almost always coincides with a 'come apart'. They definitely choked.

[Clintosaurus 7,846]

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Clint is a good guy D/stone.  He just doesn't like umpires haha

And that's the point isn't it? ... we are allowed to have different views and there's nothing wrong with trying to disprove a different view

Thanks @Macca - I don't blame the umpires (well except Mathew Nicholls and Nathan Williamson). I blame the coaching they receive and the (it seems) weekly edicts from HQ to focus on certain things. Also some players get a far better run from the umps than others (Charlie Curnow for one). The lack of consistency is my main beef.

[Macca 16,969]

12 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Thanks @Macca - I don't blame the umpires (well except Mathew Nicholls and Nathan Williamson). I blame the coaching they receive and the (it seems) weekly edicts from HQ to focus on certain things. Also some players get a far better run from the umps than others (Charlie Curnow for one). The lack of consistency is my main beef.

We've had these discussions before but full time umpires and clearly defined rules with way less grey areas would help enormously

But how do we arrive at clearly defined rules unless we make the game easier to umpire?

And to make things easier we need to play 14 or 15 a side ... but who wants to watch bruise-free football?

AFLX was farcical but that boring version of footy showed us how the game can be umpired without much controversy

Doubt we'll ever see it again

So unfortunately, I don't see much changing at all but with all the flopping & staging, I can see things getting worse

And the error rate is aleady at 2 or 3 out of 10 (that includes non decisions when there could be a decision)

So I see what everyone else sees but have a different reaction because I just see it all as a clusterxxxx

Be the best team and play to your best and then you win ... take the umps out of it as Smith probably did (way back when)

[Webber 10,468]

19 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

 

Any words of wisdom re: Clarry?

 

15 hours ago, Wells 11 said:

When you land and recover…We need your opinion  re Clarry. i’ve been scouring this forum looking for you fr weeks lol. 

As best I can glean, they’ve determined he’s got a tear at the Musculo-tendinous junction, or M-T junction (where the ‘white’ tissue meets the ‘red’) of 2 (of his 3) hamstrings. These are more complicated than a simple mid-belly tear (3 week rule) and not as bad as a tear in the tendon pure (3 month +). Hence the time taken. Why they couldn’t determine this at first diagnosis, who knows (imaging isn’t perfect by any means), but it just means a longer timeframe, and longer still the more ‘tendon’ than ‘muscle’. This far into his rehab though, it’s now all about his symptom reportage, whether he can repeat sprint, accelerate, jump and land without pain, so we’ll just have to wait. Cherry ripe for finals I’m thinking. 

[kev martin 9,892]

5 hours ago, Macca said:

By and large, the game is umpired quite well

I support your sentiment.

Never have I thought they make poor decisions deliberately, I put it down human nature. 

My two cents worth. When the umps enter the oval and the broadcaster ask us to welcome them, I am regularly the only one in the area to applaud them. I would have thought, given the hostility they face by some of the spectators, that more support would be gained. The parents, I would expect to at least show something, in order to install in their young ones a sense of respect. I am continually disappointed. I guess they come from the school of Boo's.

The umpires do a tough job across all levels, and we wouldn't have a game without them. They need our respect and less derogatory calls towards them.

My moto when a howler happens is, we can win without the benefit of frees. Though inconsistency can damage the entertainment. 

Keep up the support and sensibilities Macca, I am on board with you.

Edited July 17, 2023 by kev martin

[Macca 16,969]

Be the best team?

Let's just imagine for a minute that the Daniher decision was horribly wrong ... that May does not even touch Daniher at all. A clear wrong decision

But here's the thing, because of our list of talent and because we have a really good team, we were/are able to overcome adversity and win the game

But if we are an ordinary outfit, we're probably going to lose anyway (as we did for more than 40 seasons from 1964)

So it's not true that we were a poor side for 57 years ... that's an exaggeration

So take the umpires out of it