2023 AFLW Trade Period

[Dees_In_October 3,388]

Trade period is getting closer and more details about the 2023 season are coming to light:

https://www.womens.afl/news/118211/aflw-trade-period-looms-as-clubs-ponder-options-for-one-off-draft

Trade period: late February or early March.

Similar to previous seasons, decisions on some parts of the CBA will be prioritised so the trade period can be completed. Hopefully one day these decisions will be made with better alignment, so club's can plan list adjustments with the full details.

Draft: April.

Mature-age only - those born in 2004 or prior (due to the extra draft last year). The 2005-born players (18 in 2023) will then be eligible for the draft ahead of the 2024 season, fixing the clash with the end of Yr 12 that occurred last season for draftees.

List size:

"It is likely clubs will not have to take three open list spots in their squads of 30 to this particular draft (as has been the case in the past) given the special restrictions around mature-age talent, but the exact number is yet to be determined."

Currently, after Daisy's retirement, our list stands at 29 players (at least 1 of which will be inactive for 2023, so really 28).

 

In other off-season news, was pleased to here that our premiership coach has presented to the AFL Commission about the future direction of the comp:

https://www.womens.afl/news/118228/afl-commission-asks-premiership-coach-to-weigh-in-on-aflw-comp-s-future

[spirit of norm smith 16,477]

The AFLW have introduced a radical equalisation measure to assist the expansion sides.

The four newest clubs have been given power to sign players from other clubs in the Priority Signing Period (PSP) without the need to orchestrate a trade.

 

what a joke!!! Raid top clubs with no exchange of players or picks. Surely that should have applied in 2007-2016 when MFC was totally in the wilderness.  Clubs need to build and trade smartly.  Gifts and hidden agendas are a classic AFL legacy playbook 

[deanox 9,940]

Looks like up to 13 players can be signed by those 4 clubs BUT 8 of those are to interstate clubs (Sydney 5, PA 3) while Vic clubs only have 5 spots (Hawthorn 3, Essendon 2).

However, a relocation reimbursement can be paid to players moving.

Given the restrictions on payment (must be paid in tiers) it seems like it would be pretty hard to get players to move clubs generally: it's only about $8k per year to go from Tier 4 to Tier 3, or T3 to T2. Not a lot to leave the club and culture and potential success behind to go to a bottom club.

If a team can offer a T2 to T1 (~$16k) a T3 to T1 (~$24k) or a T4 to T2 (~$16k) increase it might be more tempting though.

 

My guess is the highest risk players for us are any interstate players being lured home: they could get their relocation costs paid plus a $16-24k pay rise.

Do we have many interstate players who are likely "under tiered" in our structure?

 

I can't think of many from interstate, although there might be a couple of strong performers who could attract a T4-T2 increase for example.

 

[kev martin 9,951]

Really tough for those clubs that took a risk with the inaugural AFLW clubs. Five of our top players can be poached. Will really upset the boat if they go hard on any top team.

 

PRIORITY SIGNING PERIOD WINNERS

Essendon can sign up to two players

Hawthorn can sign up to three players

Port Adelaide granted two extra list spots and can sign up to three players

Sydney granted three extra list spots and can sign up to five players

 

WHO CAN THEY SIGN ?

Clubs that finished 1st – 4th can lose no more than five players

Clubs that finished 5th – 8th can lose no more than two players

Clubs that finished 9th – 18th can lose no more than one player

 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/aflw-teams-have-been-given-license-to-poach-players-from-the-best-clubs-for-next-season/news-story/0479ebc6fe96ce98c2cbd12d0f04717c

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by kev martin

[BDA 22,759]

We have a very strong culture and are smack bang in the middle of our window. I can't see us losing any player to expansion. I reckon the teams that finished 3-8 are most at risk of having their players poached.

[dl4e 5,851]

I think the whole thing stinks. Make those clubs earn their way to the top instead of some socialist handout.  they get better draft picks and with decent recruiting can make their way up. I will be as angry as hell if any of our players are poached by those expansion teams.

[rjay 24,972]

5 minutes ago, dl4e said:

I think the whole thing stinks. Make those clubs earn their way to the top instead of some socialist handout.  they get better draft picks and with decent recruiting can make their way up. I will be as angry as hell if any of our players are poached by those expansion teams.

Particularly Hawthorn....

They didn't want anything to do with AFLW until way too late in the day.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

40 minutes ago, BDA said:

We have a very strong culture and are smack bang in the middle of our window. I can't see us losing any player to expansion. I reckon the teams that finished 3-8 are most at risk of having their players poached.

No Daisy to work her magic any more and free passage for any player, they don’t have to rely on trades doubling the cost. Money will talk and I expect we’ll lose a couple 

[BDA 22,759]

There was a big gap between the top teams and the rest. Ourselves and the lions finished on a percentage of about 290 I think. I guess the AFL figure this is a good way to even things up but I’ll be raging if we lose good players. 

And it will be salt in the wounds if hawthorn and Essendon are the beneficiaries. 

[rjay 24,972]

26 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

No Daisy to work her magic any more and free passage for any player, they don’t have to rely on trades doubling the cost. Money will talk and I expect we’ll lose a couple 

I think we will unfortunately.

edit: I just hope the losses are evenly distributed amongst the top tier.

I would hate us to lose players but Brisbane lose none, they really don't have another team chipping away at them and we have a few.

Adelaide I think should come back to earth a bit.

Edited February 20, 2023 by rjay

[deanox 9,940]

40 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

No Daisy to work her magic any more and free passage for any player, they don’t have to rely on trades doubling the cost. Money will talk and I expect we’ll lose a couple 

The four teams who can sign players: do they have quality Tier 1 players already and if so, are the players they are likely to recruit from us going to usurp those players?

 

There are only two Tier 1 and six Tier 2 players at each club. For money to talk, they need to be recruiting one of our lower Tier players to one of their top Tiers.

 

If our Tiers are not in line with the true market value of players, then there is a genuine potential to lure. But overspending on a bottom player isn't going to help, and I think we'd be happy to keep our top 8 together and lose a mid range of that's what happens.

I note the relocation bonus is worth up to $10k, which could be a bigger incentive, especially if they wanted to return home or were happy to move interstate.

Edited February 20, 2023 by deanox

[Brownie 5,981]

Gillard, Hanks, Bannon.

It's been years of pioneering the comp and building a talent base for it to get eroded.

We've built a brilliant culture though. Hope it makes most stick fat with us.

No penalty for dragging your feet in this league hey.

[spirit of norm smith 16,477]

Smart recruiting and trading saw the Dees reach the top. Now teams that gave nil to AFLW like Hawks and Bombers can raid the established clubs. RIDICULOUS!!! 

[poita 3,902]

Typical AFL - they mismanage the expansion of the AFLW and, instead of finding ways to improve the depth of the talent pool so that the weaker teams can improve, they decide to make the stronger teams weaker.

Teams like Melbourne and Brisbane generally play attractive, attacking football that people want to watch. Make these teams weaker and the entire competition reverts to what we had six years ago with the ball being hacked from one rolling maul to the next.

Hopefully our playing group recognise that this club is head and shoulders above what they will get anywhere else in Victoria in terms of professionalism, culture and success, and that a few extra dollars is insignificant in comparison.

[deanox 9,940]

12 hours ago, Brownie said:

Gillard, Hanks, Bannon.

...

Hanks would surely be Tier 2, Bannon Tier 3, and Gillard probably T4 due to youth but should be pushing to T3 at the Dee's after the year she's had.

So yes, they are at risk, but they are probably only going to be offered a one tier increase.

Would you move to a bottom club from the reigning premiers for $8k?

 

[Dees_In_October 3,388]

Hopefully this is just a rinse and repeat of every other ridiculous expansion scenario that we've weathered so far. My concern was always that we'd lose our entire core in one fell swoop before winning a premiership and have to do a complete re-build. Through team culture and smart list management, we've avoided that at least.

Of the mid/lower tier who are most at danger, that big focus on positional flexibility last season pays off in this regard as well. Though, there's already a squeeze on for some positions with McNamara and Colvin returning from injury. The players who replaced them or otherwise broke into the premiership team (Gillard, Mackin, Chaplin) have strong claims as well. Those positional questions won't be answered til preseason though, so I can't really see that affecting players' thinking in terms of being lured elsewhere at this stage.

It would be an interesting exercise to try to guess which players are in each tier... Presumably we just lost a Tier 1 or 2 in Daisy. So there'll at least be some movement up the ranks. Transparency about a projected tier progression for each player over the next few seasons would be valued, and I trust the club's managing that appropriately. The players in danger who we'd most like to keep can probably be promised (if not immediately, then in a season or two) the same increase they'd get by moving anyway, so they'd have to be very unsatisfied with their role or something else for that to be worth it? Plus, there's a new CBA coming, so likely some pay increases through that.

15 hours ago, deanox said:

Do we have many interstate players who are likely "under tiered" in our structure?

As it currently stands, I'm pretty sure our entire list is from Victoria (or Ireland!). Harris is the exception but surely isn't a flight risk.

I continue to expect Caris to go, as she's waiting in a ruck queue that's only got longer with Harris in there. She was impressive in her game last season, so she'd surely have interest if she wants game time.

[deanox 9,940]

As an exercise, I tried to assign players to Tiers based on where I thought they would be at during last season.

It's not easy to fit some great players into those Tiers and I'm sure I've got much of it wrong.

But also, while we have plenty of players who are likely underpaid at the Dee's, it seems like most players would probably only jump one Tier at most.

For example, would a rival club poach Gillard, McNamara, Mackin or Heath with a Tier 2 contract (top 8 players)? All promising players, but top 8 on your list is a big call. Would a rival club make West or Bannan a Tier 1 offer?

I also think the new CBA will mean increased pay again, so even staying at their current club will see a pay rise.

I'm not saying players won't leave, but that I think it is less likely that it seems, given the restraints on pay Tier. If they wanted player movement, instead of allowing pre-signings, the AFLW should have increased the T1 and T2 spots for those clubs.

 

T.Hanks T2/T1

K.Hore T2/T1

L.Birch T2/T1

O.Purcell T2/T1

E.Zanker T2/T1

 

L.Mithen T2/T3

K.Paxman T2/T3

T.Harris T2/T3

L.Pearce T2/T3

 

E.West T3/T2

S.Goldrick T3/T2

 

S.Lampard T3/T4

A.Bannan T3/T4

M.Gay T3/T4

 

G.Colvin T4/T3

S.Heath T4/T3

 

T.Gillard T4

E.McNamara T4

B.Mackin T4

M.Chaplin T4

C.Sherriff T4

M.Fitzsimon T4

C.Wilson T4

J.Ivey T4

M.Caris T4

Edited February 21, 2023 by deanox
Minor update to align the "guesses" with the numbers in each tier

[deanox 9,940]

Thanks @Dees_In_October. That Sarah Black article has similar thoughts: with T1 slots locked up to contracted players the most likely recruits are T3 to T2.

Assuming my guessed Tiers are somewhat correct, I don't think we are in big trouble.

I can't see many of Mithen, Harris, Paxman, Pearce, West or Goldrick being on the look to move.

Lampard, Bannan, Gay, Heath, Gillard, McNamara, could get a bump, but would require a club to throw a T2 at them, which is a big call.

 

Unless we have someone really in the wrong Tier (ie Hanks or Hire at T4!).

Edited February 21, 2023 by deanox

[Lucifers Hero 39,965]

I can see why the AFL are doing this:  Crows, Lions and Dees have dominated the GF.  They have graced the GF 10 times out of a possible 12.  (The other times:  Bulldogs (premiers in 2018) and Carlton (a flukey conference system in 2019.).

North wouldn't be two happy being in the lose up to '5 players' category.  But they did a fair bit of raiding and had concessions so shouldn't be complaining.

The issue is the AFL moving the goal posts without warning.   We traded up the draft order a few years ago to bring in talent ahead of the draft concessions to the latest expansion teams.  Now we risk losing some of our best players.

Some clubs will get around the # of Tier spots by offering other incentives on top of say Tier 3 $ to bridge the small gap to Tier 2 $.  Like Daisy said after the GF win:  "...we didn't give away cars to entice players to join..."  Which I assume are not in the salary cap.  Clubs also offer jobs in their FD etc. 

Unless our players want to go interstate their options will be Ess or Hawth.  The best a player can hope for is to move from Tier 3 to Tier 2.  And I suspect Ess and Hawth will already have their Tier 2 spots taken.  I don't expect us to lose many players.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[Lucifers Hero 39,965]

The upcoming draft is compromised as the young players were taken up in the last draft so there will only be 'over-age' players; generally those that were overlooked in the last draft.

So getting draft picks for any player we lose will not be of much value. 

I would guess the lack of a 'draft pool' is why the struggling clubs are getting free hits at established players rather than priority draft picks.

[Dees_In_October 3,388]

@deanoxYeah that looks about right, though of course it's hard to know! And yeah there'd have to be players who've agreed to a lower tier than their worth as a sacrifice to keep the team together (or given their earning capacity off-season compared to other players) or with a promise for future promotion. I think players who value their progression as footballers would be keen to stick with us, especially off the back of last year. I can't imagine any of that group you listed (Lampard, Bannan, Gay, Heath, Gillard) being dissatisfied with their opportunities to develop or their progress (with McNamara being well supported it seems through a very difficult injury).

@Lucifers Hero Agree re: seeing what the AFL's (trying) to do. In the big picture for the competition, it needs to be done. We've benefited in other ways from doing the hard yards early. That's the stuff (coaching - including by a head coach who's full-time at the club, professionalism, stability, leadership) we're offering instead of cars. I've got no doubt that AFLW players are highly attuned to the worth of all that in a sporting landscape edging ever-gradually towards professionalism. Fingers crossed our players are all earning well enough elsewhere to offset anything they can be offered.

Hopefully though, even if we lose a couple of mid tier players, so do the other top clubs, and it's all relative. I just wish they'd gone harder to "equalise" the Crows when they were a one-state team getting first look at all of SA's young talent while losing basically none of their established team...but anyway.

19 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

The issue is the AFL moving the goal posts without warning. 

Pretty sure that's the AFL's motto, especially when it comes to AFLW.

[BDA 22,759]

Chloe Molly has expressed an interest in joining the Swans. she's tier 1 for sure. Probably pies best player so a huge blow for them.

i wouldn't be surprised if it's the teams 4 to 8 that lose their players. Dees, Lions and Crows far ahead of these teams so these players might think they're no chance of a flag so may as well take the extra money. We're in our window so why leave. It's not like the extra money is going to set players up for life.

[poita 3,902]

With only 13 players on the move, and a fair bit of talk around Collingwood's list being heavily targeted, hopefully the impact on our list is minor.

As others have said, surely very few players are going to be leaving a strong club for a weaker alternative for the sake of a few $$.

Those such as Chloe Molloy who are moving for lifestyle reasons are an obvious exception, but I certainly wouldn't be leaving Melbourne for Hawthorn or Essendon to pick up an extra $8K (pre-tax).

Hawthorn apparently do have both their tier 1 spots available, so maybe they throw the house at someone like Zanker or West. Interesting that West still played as a rookie last season, so we are definitely going to need to look after her this year.

[deanox 9,940]

15 minutes ago, poita said:

...

Those such as Chloe Molloy who are moving for lifestyle reasons are an obvious exception, but I certainly wouldn't be leaving Melbourne for Hawthorn or Essendon to pick up an extra $8K (pre-tax).

...

That sort of money can be life changing for people, but I'd hope that if we had any players in that position we were finding a way to look after them.

 

16 minutes ago, poita said:

...

Hawthorn apparently do have both their tier 1 spots available, so maybe they throw the house at someone like Zanker or West. Interesting that West still played as a rookie last season, so we are definitely going to need to look after her this year.

The Tier 1 slots are pretty massive because they are just a bigger gap to T2. If they can find a T3/T4 player at a club who should be higher, that is $25-35k more.

That could be the difference between working full time as well as playing footy or dedicating your professional life to football. For a quality cusp player with potential, it could help them become a star.

I hope we are using the marketing budgets etc. to look after those players on low Tiers rather than propping up the big names. I recall that when Harris moved to Melbourne she got football Tier payments only (not marketing), and with Daisy gone, surely we have freed some up.

I'd be particularly disappointed to lose either Zanker or West though.

[Lucifers Hero 39,965]

1 hour ago, poita said:

With only 13 players on the move, and a fair bit of talk around Collingwood's list being heavily targeted, hopefully the impact on our list is minor.

As others have said, surely very few players are going to be leaving a strong club for a weaker alternative for the sake of a few $$.

Those such as Chloe Molloy who are moving for lifestyle reasons are an obvious exception, but I certainly wouldn't be leaving Melbourne for Hawthorn or Essendon to pick up an extra $8K (pre-tax).

Hawthorn apparently do have both their tier 1 spots available, so maybe they throw the house at someone like Zanker or West. Interesting that West still played as a rookie last season, so we are definitely going to need to look after her this year.

West is safe as a player needs to have played for 3 or more AFL seasons to be targetted.

On that basis, the high end talent we drafted a few years ago should also be safe.

 

I actually hope this works or the AFL will be back for another impromptu idea to equalise the comp meaning weakening the strong teams.  The more such ideas they have the more likelihood of our better players going.  This would be especially so if the AFL gave fledgling clubs more top Tier spots.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Lucifers Hero