1 hour ago, 58er said:

PS We beat Lionswih Hipwood and I  think McStay in Sydney earlier in the year.

Correct.

Cameron was held to 2 that night while Daniher, Hipwood and McStay managed just 2 between them. Bailey kicked 4.

For the record, I like bits and pieces of Smith's game and he was excellent against Adelaide late last year. A good depth player that may actually sneak into round 1 and never look back if all goes right for him.

I guess my point is that he's not suited to your smart and crafty Charlie Cameron small forward types, rather a taller forward.

The question is with Jetta gone, who takes the premier classy small forward from the opposition? Eg - Cameron, Papley, Shai Bolton etc... 

39 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Smith was off the ground for one of Charlie’s goals and another was when Rivers missed a handball and gave it straight to Charlie. 
So let’s at least judge Smith realistically. 

I think that in the GF the two goals kicked by Treloar in the second term were gifts, one by Salem and another by Petty, they were errant handballs under pressure.

Even the best make mistakes when under pressure.

1 hour ago, 58er said:

PS We beat Lionswih Hipwood and I  think McStay in Sydney earlier in the year.

In our round 12 game Hibberd played on Cameron for 80% game time and while on him held him goalless.  Cameron kicked 1 on Salem and 1 on Hunt (a junk time free kick).  I was surprised Hibberd didn't get the job again in round 1 of the finals.

@Baghdad Bob Smith was on the ground for all of Cameron's 5 goals. Three were mistakes by Smith.  The other 2 you can give Smith the benefit of the doubt.   

Cameron's second was the Rivers handball.  Not Smiths fault but definitely a disconnect as Smith was indecisive and had no awareness.  You could tell Rivers had an "oh [censored]" moment half way through what should have been simple handball.

For Cameron's 3rd, Smith picked up McCluggage who went forward, and Salem picked up Cameron.  That goal looked bad for Smith as he was the closest to Cameron when he kicked the goal, but if you relook at it closely it was a lapse of the entire back 6 as Salem ran off Cameron and impacted the contest and no-one dropped back to stand the Lions most dangerous forward.     

5 hours ago, binman said:

Total bollocks.

In fact Smith's flexibility is one reason 'they love' Smith. 

He could have taken any of their forwards - tall, medium or small. 

Hell, he would have thrashed Daniher. 

As an example of his flexibility, he didn't take a small or medium against the Roos in the practice match. he played as key defender and thrashed Zuhar, who was playing as a key forward. 

I get that you like Smith... hell, so do i. Personally think he is under-rated by most on DL....

But you cannot possibly know that "...he would have thrashed Daniher."

I could just as easily state with the same conviction that Danners would have given him a bath.

Neither of us will ever know.

1 hour ago, ding said:

I get that you like Smith... hell, so do i. Personally think he is under-rated by most on DL....

But you cannot possibly know that "...he would have thrashed Daniher."

I could just as easily state with the same conviction that Danners would have given him a bath.

Neither of us will ever know.

I was basing that comment on how rubbish daniher is.

Twice we played them and he had zero impact in either 

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

guess my point is that he's not suited to your smart and crafty Charlie Cameron small forward types, rather a taller forward.

A rangy forward?

He's a poor man Darryl White - and Darryl was quite the silky player.

4 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Smith was off the ground for one of Charlie’s goals and another was when Rivers missed a handball and gave it straight to Charlie. 
So let’s at least judge Smith realistically. 

Yep.

Funnily enough I happened to watch that game last night as part of my 2021 season redux (two to go!)

Sure cameron was too clever for Smith on a several occasions - though twice Smith beat Cameron in a pure one on one racing back towards goal, the second of which was critical as the lions were really pushing at that point.

Cameron is brilliant one on one

But an important point is related to why they chose to leave Smith on Cameron.

Spoiler alert - it wasn't because he couldn't pick another forward up.

Sure Cameron kicked 5 goals. Great. But no goal assists, only 2 involvements other than his goals (by way of contrast viney had no goals and 7 score involvements) and crucially bugger all pressure inside 50 .

13 disposals, but 12 were kicks, so not bringing teamstes into the game.

But the key thing is the lions only scored 4 other goals. Cameron was basically their only avenue to goal and they went through him too often and look to isolate him on one one too often. 

Added to that is they looked to create space behind him to help him score. That is a rubbish way to play against us because we allow so few opportunities for teams to get behind us.

Bottom line is even with Cameron kicking 5 they weren't scoring enough, and goody was happy with that. 

Edited February 28, 20223 yr by binman

46 minutes ago, binman said:

I was basing that comment on how rubbish daniher is.

Twice we played them and he had zero impact in either 

You could mount a case that every key forward last year was rubbish against us because we had a All Australian full back and an All Australian intercepting 3rd defender. No key forward was going to get past through them.

'Bin', I can't stand Daniher more then anyone. His face is punchable and he proved what a [censored] of a bloke he is by going after Jake Bowey in the first final before he [censored] himself when May and Viney retaliated.

But he's not a rubbish footballer 'Bin'. Before injuries got hold of him he kicked 65 goals back in 2017 as a 22 year old and he was destined for superstar status. That's an amazing achievement for a young key forward at that age.

Even this year alone after finally having a full season injury he still managed 46 goals which is a good outcome from a key forward especially someone who's had significant injuries that nearly ended his career.

It's no wonder Sydney were willing to pay big and Brisbane actually did.

Any team that has Joe Daniher still worries me because on his good day he can still kick 7.1. A bad day though is him kicking 2.6

You saying Smith would have Daniher's measure is simply laughable mate. Smith is nothing but depth at the moment and I would absolutely cringe and tear my hair out if I saw Smith standing next to Daniher because he would be far too good for him.

Fair points about Daniher dazzler.

But he is a bit like Cameron. If he he is not kicking goals he adds nothing else.

His issue is not talent. It's fitness - and always has been.  Both games against e was totally gassed in the last third of each quarter and pretty much all of the last.

I reckon Smith could stand him and do a good job, not least because he would exploit Daniher's lack of speed and woeful fitness by running off him.

And he is more than depth. He was picked ahead of hibberd in that lions game and would have kept his spot if not for injury. It's clear that goody sees him as best 22.

 

16 minutes ago, binman said:

Fair points about Daniher dazzler.

But he is a bit like Cameron. If he he is not kicking goals he adds nothing else.

His issue is not talent. It's fitness - and always has been.  Both games against e was totally gassed in the last third of each quarter and pretty much all of the last.

I reckon Smith could stand him and do a good job, not least because he would exploit Daniher's lack of speed and woeful fitness by running off him.

And he is more than depth. He was picked ahead of hibberd in that lions game and would have kept his spot if not for injury. It's clear that goody sees him as best 22.

 

Yes fair call. I'm a bit harsh on Smith at times just because his football nous worries me. 

But seeing that Goody was willing to put his balls on the line and select Smith over a well established defender in Hibberd was such a significant call, especially so late in the year coming up to finals. I think it was a courageous selection and showed why Goodwin isn't afraid to just play safe.

You could mount the same case for Jake Bowey.

Had Smith not got injured people's perception including myself, would have changed because we would be talking about Smith the premiership player.

It's well obvious that coaching staff rate him enormously and have for a while. His body has let him unfortunately. 

I'd personally have no issues with him playing round 1.

Edited February 28, 20223 yr by dazzledavey36

5 hours ago, willmoy said:

Charlie's best is on his right foot and he will try to get on it all the time. Smith is fast enough to get him while he's trying to do it.

Fair enough, but I am not convinced that he has (at least yet) the footy smarts.  (which may reflect lack of continuity due to injury, or, maybe just not there?)

Edited February 28, 20223 yr by monoccular

An interesting thing at the practice game happened right in front of me (I was standing on the fence).

Rivers picked up a half volley right near the boundary line on the wing and almost immediately got tackled.

Smith was providing cover and free behind the contest.

Rivers took the ball over the line  which seemed a reasonable option to me. 

But Smith gave him a bake for not releasing the ball to him, something they are brilliant at as a rule (quick handball/throw under intense pressure).

I thought Smith was a bit tough on Rivers TBH, but it showed he is no shrinking violet . 

32 minutes ago, binman said:

An interesting thing at the practice game happened right in front of me (I was standing on the fence).

Rivers picked up a half volley right near the boundary line on the wing and almost immediately got tackled.

Smith was providing cover and free behind the contest.

Rivers took the ball over the line  which seemed a reasonable option to me. 

But Smith gave him a bake for not releasing the ball to him, something they are brilliant at as a rule (quick handball/throw under intense pressure).

I thought Smith was a bit tough on Rivers TBH, but it showed he is no shrinking violet . 

In fairness to Rivers he was probably worried Charlie Cameron was hiding behind Smith!

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

In fairness to Rivers he was probably worried Charlie Cameron was hiding behind Smith!

Don't know why.

It's not like Cameron would lay a tackle on Joel.

4 hours ago, binman said:

An interesting thing at the practice game happened right in front of me (I was standing on the fence).

Rivers picked up a half volley right near the boundary line on the wing and almost immediately got tackled.

Smith was providing cover and free behind the contest.

Rivers took the ball over the line  which seemed a reasonable option to me. 

But Smith gave him a bake for not releasing the ball to him, something they are brilliant at as a rule (quick handball/throw under intense pressure).

I thought Smith was a bit tough on Rivers TBH, but it showed he is no shrinking violet . 

I've just read this last page and not the rest of the thread, so it may have already been touched on, but I thought Rivers struggled most of the game. He wasn't terrible, but he made a few mistakes and seemed to lack some cohesion with team mates.

I love him, I think he's going to be a star, but he played a few wobbly games towards the end of 2021 too and I just wonder if his spot could be in jeopardy in the early rounds this year.

7 hours ago, A F said:

I've just read this last page and not the rest of the thread, so it may have already been touched on, but I thought Rivers struggled most of the game. He wasn't terrible, but he made a few mistakes and seemed to lack some cohesion with team mates.

I love him, I think he's going to be a star, but he played a few wobbly games towards the end of 2021 too and I just wonder if his spot could be in jeopardy in the early rounds this year.

I'm a fan of Trent too but he is very much on the edge with others looking to take his spot. He will need to perform well leading up to round 1 to keep his spot imo