Anyone know what’s happening with Bedford?

He looked good and then vanished

33 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Maybe the OP reckons we’re better off with Barry Prendergast? 
 

Taylor has done a great job. Jog on.

I'd hate to see if he done a bad job then. 17th and 14th not great reading. He's better than Prendergast but not much better.

I've questioned Taylor on numerous occasions but this thread is just stupid. Luke Jackson was a brave call and I haven't seen anything from anyone else in the top 10 that makes me think we messed up.

The Pickett thing is a big call considering the player we rated 5th in the draft was still available. The other thing that is equally concerning is the player we rated 5th (who impressed me) was a typical Melbounre style player with poor kicking skills.

23 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I've questioned Taylor on numerous occasions but this thread is just stupid. Luke Jackson was a brave call and I haven't seen anything from anyone else in the top 10 that makes me think we messed up.

The Pickett thing is a big call considering the player we rated 5th in the draft was still available. The other thing that is equally concerning is the player we rated 5th (who impressed me) was a typical Melbounre style player with poor kicking skills.

Why is it stupid? Seems like you have similar concerns to myself 

29 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

The Pickett thing is a big call considering the player we rated 5th in the draft was still available. The other thing that is equally concerning is the player we rated 5th (who impressed me) was a typical Melbounre style player with poor kicking skills.

Sorry, but this seems such a contradictory statement.  Doesn't the fact that we didn't pick up said 5th rated player at 9 mean that we actually rate him that much in the end?

I've been moderately impressed with Pickets kicking skills, my main criticism would be that he doesn't get enough of them, but it's still pretty early days.

14 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Sorry, but this seems such a contradictory statement.  Doesn't the fact that we didn't pick up said 5th rated player at 9 mean that we actually rate him that much in the end?

I've been moderately impressed with Pickets kicking skills, my main criticism would be that he doesn't get enough of them, but it's still pretty early days.

No, we went in with a clear type in mind for that pick (small forward) and deviated from best available. 

46 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Why is it stupid? Seems like you have similar concerns to myself 

Because its a knee jerk reaction based on one game and you have ignored the good work he has done. I am all for questioning his picks but I can't see any of your suggestions of who was available other than who we picked. 

Wouldn't swap Jackson for anyone other than Rowell in the draft.

The selections of Sparrow and Spargo are bigger issues for me.

Easy to say sack him but which recruiter are you replacing him with? Brisbane and Port I rate, but not too many others standout.

9 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Because its a knee jerk reaction based on one game and you have ignored the good work he has done. I am all for questioning his picks but I can't see any of your suggestions of who was available other than who we picked. 

Wouldn't swap Jackson for anyone other than Rowell in the draft.

The selections of Sparrow and Spargo are bigger issues for me.

Easy to say sack him but which recruiter are you replacing him with? Brisbane and Port I rate, but not too many others standout.

Hayden Young will win a brownlow one day. Mark my words. Jackson isn't really one of my major issues. I'm just infuriated by the continuous selection of midgets with high picks (spargo, pickett) and trading away first rounders (lever, may) as well as our inability to select anyone good with a rookie pick. I know rookies are lotteries but we seem to get alot of fililpovic type operators.

9 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Hayden Young will win a brownlow one day. Mark my words. Jackson isn't really one of my major issues. I'm just infuriated by the continuous selection of midgets with high picks (spargo, pickett) and trading away first rounders (lever, may) as well as our inability to select anyone good with a rookie pick. I know rookies are lotteries but we seem to get alot of fililpovic type operators.

When was the last time a half back won a brownlow? 

I don't see his game translating to the midfield but each to their own. I will be sure to mark your words because I know that this will never happen.

7 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Hayden Young will win a brownlow one day. Mark my words. Jackson isn't really one of my major issues. I'm just infuriated by the continuous selection of midgets with high picks (spargo, pickett) and trading away first rounders (lever, may) as well as our inability to select anyone good with a rookie pick. I know rookies are lotteries but we seem to get alot of fililpovic type operators.

Can't be angry with May ATM. He's close to AA. We did get Harmes and Vandenberg through the rookie draft but it's been slim pickings after that.

24 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Because its a knee jerk reaction based on one game and you have ignored the good work he has done. I am all for questioning his picks but I can't see any of your suggestions of who was available other than who we picked. 

Wouldn't swap Jackson for anyone other than Rowell in the draft.

The selections of Sparrow and Spargo are bigger issues for me.

Easy to say sack him but which recruiter are you replacing him with? Brisbane and Port I rate, but not too many others standout.

Replace him with me

Just now, WERRIDEE said:

Can't be angry with May ATM. He's close to AA. We did get Harmes and Vandenberg through the rookie draft but it's been slim pickings after that.

Nope. May is a great asset now but he is 28 and doesn't have long left.  Ben king on the other hand will be a star for a very long time.

On 8/1/2020 at 12:45 PM, Elegt said:

Because this crap has been going on for years. Lets run through his entire drafting/trading history

2013

Trades:

Viv Michie for 54-error

Tyson 9 + 53 for 2 + 20 + 72 -error

Vince for 23-success

Draft

Salem 9- success

Kennedy Harris 40-error

Jayden Hunt 57-success

Harmes 2-success

Rookie 

King 19-error

Georgieou 35-error

2014

Trades

Garlett + 83  for 61 + 79- success

Lumumba for Mitch Clark-error

Frost + 40 + 53 for 23 - error

Draft

Petracca 2 - success

Brayshaw 3- success

Neal Bullen 40- error

Mcdonald 53-error

Rookie

Vandenburg 2-success

White 20-error

2015

Trades

Melksham for 25-success

Howe and Toumpas for Kennedy 29 + 50-error

Fitzpatrick for 94-success

Bugg and 7 for 10 + 43 +64- success

Draft

Oliver 4-success

Weideman 9- error

King 42-error

Hulett 46-error

Rookie

Wagner 6-error

Smith 41- neutral

2016 

Trades

 29 + 68 for Hibberd and 59 -success

Dunn and 51 for 47-error

Draft

Hannan 46-neutral

Johnstone 64-error

Rookie

Filipovic 8-error

Smith 25-error

Kielty 41-error

2017

Trades

10 + 2018 (1rd) + 2018 (4rd) for Lever + 35 + 2018 (3rd rd)- error

Watts for 31 -success

66 for Balic-error

Draft

Spargo 29- error

Fritsch 31-success

Petty 37-error

Baker 48-error

2018

Trades

Kent for 65-error

Tyson for Preuss + 62-neutral

Hogan + 65 for 6 + 23-success

May + Kolodjasnij for 6 -neutral however Ben King looks to be a star and Kolodjasnij will be delisted

Draft

Sparrow 27-neutral but did we really need another inside mid

Jordon 33-neutral but this kid should be pushing for games by now

Nietschke 53-error

Hore 56-success

Bedford 75-neutral

Rookie

Chandler 15-error

Mid-Season

Dunkley 3-error

2019

Frost + 42 + 61 + 2020 4th rnd for 50 + 2020 2nd rd-neutral

22 + 79 + 2020 2nd rd for Langdon 26 + 2020 4th rd-neutral

26 + 50 2020 1st rnd for 8 [pickett]-neutral but looks like error at this stage

Draft

Jackson 3-neutral but Hayden Young is what we needed

Pickett 12- neutral but kid has a long way to go

Rivers 32-neutral but the kid looks to have the goods

Overall more misses than hits

Jackson is a success. Bloke has the goods. Still don't think Taylor is the answer 

On 7/31/2020 at 9:12 PM, Elegt said:

clearly not picking the right players for us. Wasting draft picks. Why these guys are on our list bewilders me

 

-wagner brothers

-kolodjasnij

-baker

-spargo

-chandler

-preuss

-bradke

 

Questionable selections

-pickett for a first rounder, quite possibly the number 1 pick

-passing on hayden young (great footskills off the hbf. Exactly what we need)

-recruiting lever and may with 3 first round picks

-getting two wingers who can't kick

-jordon with a second rounder 

 

 

Taylor needs to go

The most ridiculous post I have heard 

Passing on Hayden young, Luke Jackson will be twice the player Hayden young will ever be

Luke Jackson will be a dead set gun

Oliver already a gun

Sparrow will play 200 

Weid still learning but loads of potential , already overtaking t mac

Pickett played every game 

Rivers 200

The only selection that is Questionable is spargo, but he can still come good

9 minutes ago, Paulo said:

The most ridiculous post I have heard 

Passing on Hayden young, Luke Jackson will be twice the player Hayden young will ever be

Luke Jackson will be a dead set gun

Oliver already a gun

Sparrow will play 200 

Weid still learning but loads of potential , already overtaking t mac

Pickett played every game 

Rivers 200

The only selection that is Questionable is spargo, but he can still come good

sorry but Spargo is done. bloke is no good

Going off what many mfc supporters wanted we would of ended up with

 D parish and H young

Because of Taylor we have 

Oliver and Jackson 

I know who I would rather

 

some mfc supporters would have the trifecter of

Parish, McKay and young

Taylor took, oliver, weid, and jackson

And backed it up with Fritta, pickett, Sparrow, rivers

Petty, jordon, Nietzsche and bedford can all make it as time is clearly on there side

Smith is the wildcard 

Wish he took the punt on the two indigenous players Richmond took in pickett and stack

 

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by Paulo

I don't think Taylor is the issue. Sounds like he would've grabbed Butters and Georgiades if available as well.

List management is the issue. 

We have not been proactive about turning the list over and finding the talent we need to surround our core and that's why we have big gaps in the wings and pure flankers and not the tall depth we should really have either. If we traded out some surplus and delisted a few more then especially if we armed JT with some decent picks we'd have found the wingman and half forward flanker that would make a huge improvement to our skill level.

We panicked in to some recruits - Preuss and Tomlinson - that have cost us a decent chunk of salary cap because we didn't have the answers on our list.

Every year we go in to the season with about 5 delistings known ahead of time. And I reckon we can track back to 2014 and Nev Jetta being the only one who's come good. As much as I love Nev I'd rather have 29 other players turned over on the list than 1 out of 30 success stories.

 

19 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't think Taylor is the issue. Sounds like he would've grabbed Butters and Georgiades if available as well.

List management is the issue. 

We have not been proactive about turning the list over and finding the talent we need to surround our core and that's why we have big gaps in the wings and pure flankers and not the tall depth we should really have either. If we traded out some surplus and delisted a few more then especially if we armed JT with some decent picks we'd have found the wingman and half forward flanker that would make a huge improvement to our skill level.

We panicked in to some recruits - Preuss and Tomlinson - that have cost us a decent chunk of salary cap because we didn't have the answers on our list.

Every year we go in to the season with about 5 delistings known ahead of time. And I reckon we can track back to 2014 and Nev Jetta being the only one who's come good. As much as I love Nev I'd rather have 29 other players turned over on the list than 1 out of 30 success stories.

 

I reckon we have too many square pegs, round holes going on, but I don't think Goodwin particularly rates wingers or half backs. 

Noticed Jones playing on the wing again tonight. Sorry, he's finished and he shouldn't be playing on a wing. Salem is the one that worries me. His kicking is so safe and he's become softer and softer at the contest over the years, playing at half back. He's not aspirational enough for his position.

But I don't personally have a problem with our list management. You can only bring in so many guys a season and we've consistently identified clear defensive holes (Lever and May) and then offensive holes (Langdon, Tomlinson and even Bennell). 

Our backline and defensive system has been by far the best thing about this season. Even when we've played ordinarily (with the exception of the Port game), our defence has held up. I've been impressed with the way Lockhart's developed in that back half. He seems to have Nev's position sewn up. May is growing and he and Lever need to keep playing games together. Have enjoyed Hibbo's season too.

I think we've seen over the last month or so that Weideman and Jackson are the future and Tom McDonald is finished. So time to build the forwardline around them. Kozzie is important for his pressure. AVB is important for his pressure. Maybe Bennell, in time, will be important for x factor. And the rest of the positions are a bit of a raffle with Melksham leading the way (he connects so much of what we do from midfield to forward), followed by either Fritsch, Hannan or ANB. But we need another Kozzie. Another clever, x factor, quick, aggressive, goal sneak. So our forward balance is out IMV at the moment.

Then it's the midfield/forward connection issues that we've talked about for so long, which to me, is not a list management issue, but a coaching one, IMO.

I think we can certainly delist 8-10 easily at the end of this year. I'm excited by what Taylor can bring in the next 2 to 3 years, with very limited (at this stage) options.

7 minutes ago, A F said:

I reckon we have too many square pegs, round holes going on, but I don't think Goodwin particularly rates wingers or half backs. 

Noticed Jones playing on the wing again tonight. Sorry, he's finished and he shouldn't be playing on a wing. Salem is the one that worries me. His kicking is so safe and he's become softer and softer at the contest over the years, playing at half back. He's not aspirational enough for his position.

But I don't personally have a problem with our list management. You can only bring in so many guys a season and we've consistently identified clear defensive holes (Lever and May) and then offensive holes (Langdon, Tomlinson and even Bennell). 

 

Whether it's the coach, recruiter or list manager something has to change to get Goodwin to rate wingers and proper flankers because we are woefully thin there.

Salem's not using the ball well this year but to say he's been soft is very wrong. Probably since about round 4 he's been putting up huge kms, excellent possession numbers and charging on to loose balls.

There was this last week:

 

And similar against Crouch tonight and several times in the Brisbane and Richmond games.

Bennell was a gamble that so far is somewhat paying off but in no way should be relied upon to be the answer. Tomlinson was a huge waste of cash.

But my bigger concern with list management is the lack of turnover. The Wagners, Jones, KK (contracted), Mitch Brown and maybe even Dunkley shouldn't be on the list and if anyone offered anything at all Gus should've been traded. 7 spots that should be the up and coming wingers and flankers we need.

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Whether it's the coach, recruiter or list manager something has to change to get Goodwin to rate wingers and proper flankers because we are woefully thin there.

I agree.

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Salem's not using the ball well this year but to say he's been soft is very wrong. Probably since about round 4 he's been putting up huge kms, excellent possession numbers and charging on to loose balls.

There was this last week:

 

And similar against Crouch tonight and several times in the Brisbane and Richmond games.

I should have been clearer, he doesn't tackle. Opposition players get out of his grasp easily. 

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Bennell was a gamble that so far is somewhat paying off but in no way should be relied upon to be the answer. Tomlinson was a huge waste of cash.

Disagree on Tomlinson and reckon he'll be okay. And we still have money in the cap to go around again next year.

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

But my bigger concern with list management is the lack of turnover. The Wagners, Jones, KK (contracted), Mitch Brown and maybe even Dunkley shouldn't be on the list and if anyone offered anything at all Gus should've been traded. 7 spots that should be the up and coming wingers and flankers we need.

Agree with all this. I've said it many times before. Jones should have been retired at the end of 2018. The Wagners are good triers, but not good enough unfortunately IMO. Brown may prove to be okay back up, but not after this year. And Dunkley was a strange one for me. Surprised we kept him on after last year, but I guess it makes sense to give him a second year and see if he can crack it in a stronger team. 

I must be in small company on the trade regarding Tyson. GWS picked up Kelly (from memory) with that pick but the thing was when Roos came to the club the players he had at his disposal was just so bad something big needed to change. Tyson didn't end up being a veteran for us but the years we had him for he played a role and the more important part was we had a player that could make us a better team immediately. He was very good in his first year until we well and truly turned him in the a Melbourne footballer. We also got Salem for that trade and he has been a good player (particularly in 2018). I call that trade an equal win for both clubs.

Anyway to answer the broader question on Taylor, I think he's been pretty good for us. Not every pick has been a win but I still feel like the bigger issue is in development and not the picks themselves. I really like the look of Kozzie and Jackson though.

I agree it’s not JT 

The trades of Preuss and Tomlinson probably need more scrutiny, as does giving 2x first round picks for Lever.  Mahoney or Taylor or Goodwin? 
 

 

7 hours ago, Paulo said:

The most ridiculous post I have heard 

Passing on Hayden young, Luke Jackson will be twice the player Hayden young will ever be

Luke Jackson will be a dead set gun

Oliver already a gun

Sparrow will play 200 

Weid still learning but loads of potential , already overtaking t mac

Pickett played every game 

Rivers 200

The only selection that is Questionable is spargo, but he can still come good

Agree. Good response.  Not sure why the heat is into JT. 

Only questionable pick was Spargo when players like Petruccelle for pace was available.  

Give him a pay rise.

LJ is going to be a one of a kind player who will be an unstoppable force.  I pray hes a one club player.