TRADES, DELIST, PROMOTE

[Turner 1,514]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Status of our OOC players: re-sign-or-let-go-your-club-s-out-of-contract-players

(I've edited out recent changes announced)

Out of Contract:  Toby Bedford, Mitch Brown, Kade Chandler,  Mitch Hannan, Michael Hibberd, Marty Hore, Jayden Hunt, Nathan Jones, James Jordon, Jay Lockhart, Oscar McDonald, Aaron Nietschke, Joel Smith, Charlie Spargo, Jack Viney

Summary:

• Viney still unsigned.
• Jones future unlcear.
• Hibberd will want multiple years. 
• Bedford will stay but rival clubs interested.
• Oscar is waiting for an offer.
• Nietschke has been guaranteed a deal for 2021

I had thought a year by year contract would be the way to go with Hibberd.

Would really like to see Lockhart signed up.  He had a pretty good year until Rivers took his spot.  Would still be very good back up in that small defender role especially with Jetta slowing down.

interesting no mention of Bradtke... guess he's locked in

+ u didnt edit out Smith, ik we all wish he was still on that list

[Lucifers Hero 39,735]

4 minutes ago, Turner said:

interesting no mention of Bradtke... guess he's locked in

+ u didnt edit out Smith, ik we all wish he was still on that list

Bradtke is a 'B' rookie so that could be why he was left out but not sure.

Good pick up on Smith.  Thanks, I will go back and edit.

[DeeSpencer 25,673]

Other clubs been keen on Bedford is interesting. I've seen very little to suggest he's an AFL player.

[dazzledavey36 54,851]

7 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Other clubs been keen on Bedford is interesting. I've seen very little to suggest he's an AFL player.

Have heard its the Doggies who are interested. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

It seems our List managers are always a year behind the general sentiment of supporters here and other places. Many of us would have had the Wagners, gone, OMac, ANB on the trade table last year. I know it is complicated but really it is time to get ruthless. I am particularly thinking those who are on average or better contracts but have question marks around their upside.

[DeeSpencer 25,673]

13 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Have heard its the Doggies who are interested. 

The Doggies are incredibly light on for pressure forwards so that makes sense. 

[DeeSpencer 25,673]

38 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

It seems our List managers are always a year behind the general sentiment of supporters here and other places. Many of us would have had the Wagners, gone, OMac, ANB on the trade table last year. I know it is complicated but really it is time to get ruthless. I am particularly thinking those who are on average or better contracts but have question marks around their upside.

We’ve kept a lot of shoddy depth around for a few reasons: 

1. the list has never been deep, we had to trade a lot of picks just to get out of the hole we were in. 
 

2. We’ve thought we were in the window to win, so it’s better to have some mature depth who know the system

3. Culture - Apart from a winning culture at VFL level these guys are good team mates and friends. If you cut 12 guys a year you’re losing that continuity at the club

Its hard to fix reason 1 without a fluke run of late picks. But it’s time to reconsider 2 and 3

[Half forward flank 1,022]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We’ve kept a lot of shoddy depth around for a few reasons: 

1. the list has never been deep, we had to trade a lot of picks just to get out of the hole we were in. 
 

2. We’ve thought we were in the window to win, so it’s better to have some mature depth who know the system

3. Culture - Apart from a winning culture at VFL level these guys are good team mates and friends. If you cut 12 guys a year you’re losing that continuity at the club

Its hard to fix reason 1 without a fluke run of late picks. But it’s time to reconsider 2 and 3

I go back to the List Managers. Why did they think we were in the Premiership window after the sort of loss we had in the 2018 preliminary. Was it because the game was never reviewed, so the List Manager had no true reference point? As to point three, it has always amused me. An 18 year old grows up with his mates and 2-3 years later the media talks about him having a teamate/best mate a few years later. Players these days do not have the outlets to form best mate relationships to anywhere near the extent previous generations of players did. Instead we have little groups of mates within a team. 

[DeeSpencer 25,673]

6 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I go back to the List Managers. Why did they think we were in the Premiership window after the sort of loss we had in the 2018 preliminary. Was it because the game was never reviewed, so the List Manager had no true reference point? As to point three, it has always amused me. An 18 year old grows up with his mates and 2-3 years later the media talks about him having a teamate/best mate a few years later. Players these days do not have the outlets to form best mate relationships to anywhere near the extent previous generations of players did. Instead we have little groups of mates within a team. 

We won 2 finals and fixed our biggest weakness with a gun key defender. Getting blown out by the premiers should’ve been humbling but there was 25 weeks to review not 1. Much of the 2018 team has fallen away since but we weren’t and probably still aren’t too far off. 
 

It’s not about individuals or even groups, it’s making sure the place feels like a team. Cut 10 guys a year bad you’ve turned over a lists worth of players in 4 years. You’ll draft 6-8 guys a year and within 3 years there will only be 2 or 3 left. I’m still bewildered that we only took 3 players in last years draft and no rookies but we shouldn’t go too hard the other way 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

32 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We won 2 finals and fixed our biggest weakness with a gun key defender. Getting blown out by the premiers should’ve been humbling but there was 25 weeks to review not 1. Much of the 2018 team has fallen away since but we weren’t and probably still aren’t too far off. 
 

It’s not about individuals or even groups, it’s making sure the place feels like a team. Cut 10 guys a year bad you’ve turned over a lists worth of players in 4 years. You’ll draft 6-8 guys a year and within 3 years there will only be 2 or 3 left. I’m still bewildered that we only took 3 players in last years draft and no rookies but we shouldn’t go too hard the other way 

Well, we are in very different camps if you do not think we needed to review 2018 v West Coast and if you think a gun key defender, I assume you mean, Lever, was what would rectify West Coast pulling us apart. Fact is two years later, where are we?  

Your other argument seems to be, keep players who many on here believe should have gone 1-2 years ago for team coehesion. 

[old55 23,542]

3 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

It seems our List managers are always a year behind the general sentiment of supporters here and other places. Many of us would have had the Wagners, gone, OMac, ANB on the trade table last year. I know it is complicated but really it is time to get ruthless. I am particularly thinking those who are on average or better contracts but have question marks around their upside.

What's your full FD and list management plan this year?

[COOLX 209]

I would be spewing if we have both Brayshaw and Viney at the club next year. My preference is for both of them to be gone. I would also like to see Goodwin gone however this not going to happen. I would prefer Ben Brown over T.Mac. Brown has kicked big scores before. Someone Has suggested Jones is given a coaching player roll for next year. Pure madness.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, Pollyanna said:

What's your full FD and list management plan this year?

I do not get given the time or money they do to provide that but could have told you two years ago the players we let go and are looking to trade this year would not make it. That was and remains my original point. 

[old55 23,542]

4 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I do not get given the time or money they do to provide that but could have told you two years ago the players we let go and are looking to trade this year would not make it. That was and remains my original point. 

You said you were a year ahead of our list managers. Now it's apparently two years.  Time to put up ...

[titan_uranus 24,993]

3 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Well, we are in very different camps if you do not think we needed to review 2018 v West Coast and if you think a gun key defender, I assume you mean, Lever, was what would rectify West Coast pulling us apart. Fact is two years later, where are we?  

Your other argument seems to be, keep players who many on here believe should have gone 1-2 years ago for team coehesion. 

It's May, not Lever, that we added after 2018.

Which a season in which we were the league's highest scoring side but conceded goals too easily.

I do love the whole debate around reviewing the West Coast game. Do you (and many others) think that a review would have changed 2019 or 2020?

[Half forward flank 1,022]

7 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

You said you were a year ahead of our list managers. Now it's apparently two years.  Time to put up ...

Lets go,

name a player

[Half forward flank 1,022]

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It's May, not Lever, that we added after 2018.

Which a season in which we were the league's highest scoring side but conceded goals too easily.

I do love the whole debate around reviewing the West Coast game. Do you (and many others) think that a review would have changed 2019 or 2020?

Yes.

[drdrake 3,163]

Great to see Rivers sign until 2023, this guy is a gun.  Now for Jackson 

[whatwhat say what 22,737]

5 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Great to see Rivers sign until 2023, this guy is a gun.  Now for Jackson 

that is, indeed, fab news

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/822596/rivers-extends-until-2023

[Turner 1,514]

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I do not get given the time or money they do to provide that but could have told you two years ago the players we let go and are looking to trade this year would not make it. That was and remains my original point. 

 

2 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

You said you were a year ahead of our list managers. Now it's apparently two years.  Time to put up ...

im with ya HFF

very clear that Jones, Jetta, vanders, Smith are in their last years next year

as too are Hannan, KK, Hunt, Chandler if they even make it to then too (which they shouldn't) unless something drastic changes - which i cant see happening for these boys

big years for Nietschke, Lockhart, Baker, Hore, Jordon to take next step or join them

assuming OMac + ANB go now

Edited October 4, 2020 by Turner

[Adam The God 30,218]

The not reviewing the prelim has become a bit of an urban myth on these parts.

Goodwin said he never reviewed it with the players, but you can bet they reviewed it as a coaching group.

What's the point in a deep review of a game where you don't turn up? I was at the game and we weren't on from the very first bounce. What would sitting around saying you should have done better done to the players? They know they needed to be better that day. 

What we need to become is consistent. Some can call it ruthless, but consistency is the key. Particularly if we get our forward structure and craft right, and use the ball better from midfield in a more attacking way.

With consistency we turn up and give Port a shake. With consistency we beat Bulldogs, Sydney and Fremantle. 

We tidied up our ball use by the end of the year, but the ball use in the second half of the year matched with consistency and we probably beat Geelong (a kick after the siren remember), Brisbane (a simple Bennell shot at goal) and go much closer to Richmond (our ball use that day was horrendous).

We're not as far off as some think.

Edited October 4, 2020 by A F

[Half forward flank 1,022]

7 minutes ago, Turner said:

 

im with ya HFF

very clear that Jones, Jetta, vanders, Smith are in their last years last year

as too are Hannan, KK, Hunt, Chandler if they even make it to then too (which they shouldn't) unless something drastic changes - which i cant see happening for these boys

big years for Nietschke, Lockhart, Baker, Hore, Jordon to take next step or join them

assuming OMac + ANB go now

I agree with you as well. I guess that was my point, that supporters are for the most part pretty good and fair judges of if a player is going to make it. Some we just hope against logic as with Smith of whom I see a spark but 2021 will tell. 

[Turner 1,514]

6 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I agree with you as well. I guess that was my point, that supporters are for the most part pretty good and fair judges of if a player is going to make it. Some we just hope against logic as with Smith of whom I see a spark but 2021 will tell. 

its players like baker who is 23 next year and only a handful of games and we still treat him as young and up and coming but its 5 years in the system! like if youre not best 22 by then then u just clogging someone younger and with more upside but no doubt he'll start out of the side come in mid season for 6-8 games and earn another 1 year deal and on it goes a la ANB, Hunt, hannan to date

[old55 23,542]

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Lets go,

name a player

You're the one supposedly with the handle on it. Give me who will and won't make it.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

3 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

You're the one supposedly with the handle on it. Give me who will and won't make it.

Do you speak to your husband like that?