How well have we traded out recently?

[PaulRB 6,372]

Was curious to hear thoughts on how well we’ve traded out when the player was happy or keen to stay? I.e. Frosty, Watts, Clark, Dunn, etc... Did we get a good deal, has the player played better and made it a poor deal..? 

I’m NOT talking about when a player wants to go to another club I.e. Hogan, Howe for various reasons. 
Thoughts? 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

Clark..?

 

 

[58er 6,456]

5 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Clark..?

 

 

Presumably Mitch!!

[Skuit 10,031]

3 hours ago, 58er said:

Presumably Mitch!!

Presumably referring to the happy and keen to stay part of the hypothetical. 

[buck_nekkid 5,876]

Its so hard to put a true value on it.  Humans operate with loss aversion (losses are always valued more than the equivalent gain), ownership bias (we value what we own higher than what we do not), and we suffer from peak-end effect (remember one highlight, or the last moment, as the basis for judging the value of a time period - it is also known as duration neglect).  On top of that is hindsight bias and narrative bias, where we look back like we already knew, and conveniently fit facts to a story (MFCSS and Norms curse, anyone?)

So, given that we are terrible judges from an emotive standpoint, perhaps its only stats and ladder position that can help?  I suppose in every case, the thought at the time was that we would be better off as a list without them.  In a way, once they are gone, who really cares?  If the player thrives in another system, good on them.  All I can hope is that the players we bring in thrive in our system, and make them even better than what they were at their old clubs.

So the answer is:  Who knows? (And perhaps it is entirely the wrong question???)

[TGR 1,367]

23 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Was curious to hear thoughts on how well we’ve traded out when the player was happy or keen to stay? I.e. Frosty, Watts, Clark, Dunn, etc... Did we get a good deal, has the player played better and made it a poor deal..? 

I’m NOT talking about when a player wants to go to another club I.e. Hogan, Howe for various reasons. 
Thoughts? 

Didn't Howe want 50k more to stay?

We ended up paying 350k more for Lever.

[markc 975]

5 minutes ago, TGR said:

Didn't Howe want 50k more to stay?

We ended up paying 350k more for Lever.

no he wanted more forward time . if anything what i was told he went for LESS money 

[Dante 2,739]

6 minutes ago, TGR said:

Didn't Howe want 50k more to stay?

We ended up paying 350k more for Lever.

You seem too, conveniently, forget how ordinary Howe was at Melbourne..

He was lazy and unaccountable as a forward, loose and unaccountable as a back and seemed to spend most of his time on the field trying to take mark of the match.

He wanted to play with Collingwood and we facilitated that for him, he would have never been anything but ordinary if he stayed with us.It was probably our fault that we didn't get the best out of him but that happens, he had a poor team around him.

 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

4 minutes ago, markc said:

no he wanted more forward time . if anything what i was told he went for LESS money 

The speculation stems back to the previous season when it is rumoured that GWS offered pick 7 for him last minute in the trade period.

I think we also were hoping to trade him to the Gold Coast who were willing to pay a much higher price.

Either way we messed up big time with Lever and Howe.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

1 hour ago, TGR said:

Didn't Howe want 50k more to stay?

We ended up paying 350k more for Lever.

Was offered a fortune by Gold Coast and left for less money than Melb and GC so he could join Collingwood.

Howe had one foot out the door for years. Like Frawley, he’d had enough of the MFC.

[Dante 2,739]

2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Was offered a fortune by Gold Coast and left for less money than Melb and GC so he could join Collingwood.

Howe had one foot out the door for years. Like Frawley, he’d had enough of the MFC.

Howe and Frawley were best mates.

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,468]

1 hour ago, Watts the matter said:

The speculation stems back to the previous season when it is rumoured that GWS offered pick 7 for him last minute in the trade period.

I think we also were hoping to trade him to the Gold Coast who were willing to pay a much higher price.

Either way we messed up big time with Lever and Howe.

Howe was going no matter what.  It was money.  It was for success. It was for forward line play. It was anything to get to Collingwood.  

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

56 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

The speculation stems back to the previous season when it is rumoured that GWS offered pick 7 for him last minute in the trade period.

I think we also were hoping to trade him to the Gold Coast who were willing to pay a much higher price.

Either way we messed up big time with Lever and Howe.

Actually, Howe was the marking equivalent of Frost when he was with us. I lost count of the number of times he would take an amazing mark in defense, go back and kick it directly to the opposition. He always wanted to go to the club he barracked for as a kid, nothing was going to stop that. Ben Kennedy was the sad part of that trade but perhaps that was the best we could do, at least it rid is of Toumpas at the same time and got us pick 29. Strangely, pick 29 was a key part of getting Clayton Oliver since we traded 6 & 29 for 3 that year (along with a lot of other complicated deals)

As for Lever, let's just wait and see. When he gets even a little continuity he looks a cut above everyone around him. It's possible that injury will cruel his career but if it doesn't he is going to be s star, no doubt. 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

15 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

Actually, Howe was the marking equivalent of Frost when he was with us. I lost count of the number of times he would take an amazing mark in defense, go back and kick it directly to the opposition. He always wanted to go to the club he barracked for as a kid, nothing was going to stop that. Ben Kennedy was the sad part of that trade but perhaps that was the best we could do, at least it rid is of Toumpas at the same time and got us pick 29. Strangely, pick 29 was a key part of getting Clayton Oliver since we traded 6 & 29 for 3 that year (along with a lot of other complicated deals)

As for Lever, let's just wait and see. When he gets even a little continuity he looks a cut above everyone around him. It's possible that injury will cruel his career but if it doesn't he is going to be s star, no doubt. 

What are you basing this on? Do you know this or are you just making an unfounded assumption and stating it as fact?

I am sure if he was approached last minute in the previous trade period regarding going to GWS he would have started to question his worth to the team.

There has been nothing in Levers career this far to suggest he is going to be a star. Unless he suddenly becomes a good kick or a key position player he will continue to be an overpaid half back flanker.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

20 minutes ago, Dante said:

Howe and Frawley were best mates.

 

Whilst very disappointing... we had been such a train-wreck of a side for their entire careers, it’s understandable.
 
For Frawley, the free agency compo meant that I doubt anyone was too concerned about him leaving for the Hawks.  

But in Howe’s case, there’s no way he was going to stay.  We believed that he was going to the GC for pick 7 and a trailer full of cash- then Collingwood swooped at the 11th hour and he changed his mind.  There was never any chance he was staying with us though.

[Roger Mellie 4,033]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

  It was money.  

No it was not. He (Howe) said on radio that MFC offered more than the pies.

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

9 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

What are you basing this on? Do you know this or are you just making an unfounded assumption and stating it as fact?

I am sure if he was approached last minute in the previous trade period regarding going to GWS he would have started to question his worth to the team.

There has been nothing in Levers career this far to suggest he is going to be a star. Unless he suddenly becomes a good kick or a key position player he will continue to be an overpaid half back flanker.

 Neither, I'm just playing back a number of news items that came out at the time. They too may not be fact, footy news can be like that but what else did we have to go on? There was a fair bit of commentary on fan forums saying the same but you take it all with a grain off salt. 

As for Lever, I don't think you will find too many defenders his age being included in the AA first 40. I have watched most of his games since he came to the dees and my opinion is that he is significantly more skilled player than most of the people around him, ours or opposition, once he gets a few games under his belt. 

Not only that, though, I just prefer to focus on the positive things rather than hate on the club and players. It doesn't make my opinion right but it let's me enjoy the footy more. 

 

[whatwhat say what 22,775]

Keep Howe, no Oliver...I know who I prefer

He was always going to the pies after getting on the cans with his childhood hero in Bali

Took less money and was promised a role as a forward...was back in the magoos and then recast as a defender straight away

Has become a much better,  more mature player at the Pies, as he should as he has had his prime years there