• VFL clubs will have smaller lists but pools of 19-year-old players next year

• A cut to the salary cap and father-son recruiting rule

• Stand-alone clubs can sign 40 players next year, down from 45 in 2019, as well as six over-age players from the NAB League.

• By 2021 primary lists will be cut to 38 and by 2022 to 36

• The salary cap will also be reduced from $380,000 next year to $350,000 in 2022

• Within two years clubs will be required to pay at least 90 per cent of the payment ceiling. The cap for AFL and AFL-aligned clubs will be $150,000 by 2022.

• Each clubs’ development squad of six players will have three players who can play only VFL (Category A) and three who can play in the VFL and NAB League (Category B).

• At least one 19-year-old player must be selected in the team each week, in addition to the 23rd player.

• Clubs can recruit the Category A 19-year-olds from anywhere but the Category B players must come from a region designated to each club (Box Hill Hawks, for example, has been linked with Eastern Ranges). AFL talent officers will identify the Category B players.

NAB LEAGUE-—VFL ALIGNMENTS 

Bendigo Pioneers: Essendon VFL/Richmond VFL (NGA)

Calder Cannons: Coburg/Essendon VFL (NGA)

Dandenong Stingrays: Frankston/Sandringham (NGA), Casey (NGA)

Eastern Ranges: Box Hill Hawks

Geelong Falcons: Werribee/Geelong VFL

Gippsland Power: Casey/Box Hill VFL (NGA)

GWV Rebels: Footscray VFL, Geelong VFL

Murray Bushrangers: Richmond VFL

Northern Knights: Northern Blues

Oakleigh Chargers: Port Melbourne/Collingwood VFL (NGA)

Sandringham Dragons: Sandringham

Tasmania Devils: North Melbourne VFL (NGA)

Western Jets: Williamstown/North Melb VFL (NGA)/Footscray VFL (NGA)

A squeeze on the VFL has been mooted for some time.

The AFL will spin it as protecting the non aligned clubs from financial difficulty but in reality it's just not a priority or the AFL. Pity it could be decent comp if properly run and promoted.

9 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

A squeeze on the VFL has been mooted for some time.

The AFL will spin it as protecting the non aligned clubs from financial difficulty but in reality it's just not a priority or the AFL. Pity it could be decent comp if properly run and promoted.

..... and if somehow there could be an even number (+1 or-1) of teams to end the iniquitous byes.

2 hours ago, monoccular said:

..... and if somehow there could be an even number (+1 or-1) of teams to end the iniquitous byes.

plus a season of AFL length.

Our VFL listed players had their first Casey match after the AFL team had completed three rounds.

Not a fan of having to pay a minimum 90% of the salary cap (at any level)

Means you end up overpaying spuds 

Liam Buxton moving to SANFL next year. $$$ and to showcase his ruck work without Preuss. Draftable type in 2020 draft given absence of depth in quality rucks. 

Dees need to look at Tom Freeman and Cory Stockdale. Either could be rookie option in 2020 rookie picks. Freeman - Quality 20 year old with AFL quality skills and intercept marking.  
Stockdale - 22 year old. solid small defender similar to Lockhart in intensity. Could be Jettas replacement in a year or two. 

I really think they should be increasing the salary cap at this level, and forcing clubs to spend some on 18/19/20 year olds (late bloomers) and some pub the best quality state league players eco might have a genuine chance of AFL impact if developed and drafted late in career. 

If the 2nd tier is stronger, the top tier will also be better quality. 

2 hours ago, deanox said:

I really think they should be increasing the salary cap at this level, and forcing clubs to spend some on 18/19/20 year olds (late bloomers) and some pub the best quality state league players eco might have a genuine chance of AFL impact if developed and drafted late in career. 

If the 2nd tier is stronger, the top tier will also be better quality. 

I suspect the blueprint is to dumb down and/or phase out the comp. Many of the clubs complain about the cost of running their VFL team but given the arms race nature of the competition clubs see the VFL as a necessary evil.

There's not just the players and support but the costs of maintaining the grounds to the required standard.

It's no longer a development league but simply somewhere where your depth players get a bit of simulated match practice.

A shame it is so because it could be a much better competition but AFL money men dictate that expenditure should be elsewhere.

On 10/25/2019 at 9:53 PM, Demonland said:

• VFL clubs will have smaller lists but pools of 19-year-old players next year

• A cut to the salary cap and father-son recruiting rule

• Stand-alone clubs can sign 40 players next year, down from 45 in 2019, as well as six over-age players from the NAB League.

• By 2021 primary lists will be cut to 38 and by 2022 to 36

• The salary cap will also be reduced from $380,000 next year to $350,000 in 2022

• Within two years clubs will be required to pay at least 90 per cent of the payment ceiling. The cap for AFL and AFL-aligned clubs will be $150,000 by 2022.

• Each clubs’ development squad of six players will have three players who can play only VFL (Category A) and three who can play in the VFL and NAB League (Category B).

• At least one 19-year-old player must be selected in the team each week, in addition to the 23rd player.

• Clubs can recruit the Category A 19-year-olds from anywhere but the Category B players must come from a region designated to each club (Box Hill Hawks, for example, has been linked with Eastern Ranges). AFL talent officers will identify the Category B players.

NAB LEAGUE-—VFL ALIGNMENTS 

Bendigo Pioneers: Essendon VFL/Richmond VFL (NGA)

Calder Cannons: Coburg/Essendon VFL (NGA)

Dandenong Stingrays: Frankston/Sandringham (NGA), Casey (NGA)

Eastern Ranges: Box Hill Hawks

Geelong Falcons: Werribee/Geelong VFL

Gippsland Power: Casey/Box Hill VFL (NGA)

GWV Rebels: Footscray VFL, Geelong VFL

Murray Bushrangers: Richmond VFL

Northern Knights: Northern Blues

Oakleigh Chargers: Port Melbourne/Collingwood VFL (NGA)

Sandringham Dragons: Sandringham

Tasmania Devils: North Melbourne VFL (NGA)

Western Jets: Williamstown/North Melb VFL (NGA)/Footscray VFL (NGA)

Why no Melbourne St Kilda and Hawthorn or do they have the Casey Demons BH Hawks and Sandy Dragons? 

10 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I suspect the blueprint is to dumb down and/or phase out the comp. Many of the clubs complain about the cost of running their VFL team but given the arms race nature of the competition clubs see the VFL as a necessary evil.

There's not just the players and support but the costs of maintaining the grounds to the required standard.

It's no longer a development league but simply somewhere where your depth players get a bit of simulated match practice.

A shame it is so because it could be a much better competition but AFL money men dictate that expenditure should be elsewhere.

Perhaps but it seems logical to me that if the pool of people paid to play and administer football fulltime is double the size then there is more opportunity for development and longevity for careers. 

Right now it's AFL or bust. A genuinely strong 2nd tier comp fosters better development and acts as a safety net for those cut from the ruthless top tier (either for long term career or as a transition measure back to real life).

14 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Liam Buxton moving to SANFL next year. $$$ and to showcase his ruck work without Preuss. Draftable type in 2020 draft given absence of depth in quality rucks. 

Dees need to look at Tom Freeman and Cory Stockdale. Either could be rookie option in 2020 rookie picks. Freeman - Quality 20 year old with AFL quality skills and intercept marking.  
Stockdale - 22 year old. solid small defender similar to Lockhart in intensity. Could be Jettas replacement in a year or two. 

Tom Freeman’s brother James who has been with Casey for four years, mainly on the fringes, has crossed over to  Sandringham.

51 minutes ago, KC from Casey said:

Tom Freeman’s brother James who has been with Casey for four years, mainly on the fringes, has crossed over to  Sandringham.

@KC from Casey have you heard anything in regards to recruits? Seems like every year we tend to focus on NAB league players who finish. Our depth this year was quite poor.

4 hours ago, deanox said:

Perhaps but it seems logical to me that if the pool of people paid to play and administer football fulltime is double the size then there is more opportunity for development and longevity for careers. 

Right now it's AFL or bust. A genuinely strong 2nd tier comp fosters better development and acts as a safety net for those cut from the ruthless top tier (either for long term career or as a transition measure back to real life).

I agree with your logic but the money would need to come at the expense of something else. The obvious source is the the players wages in the senior team but that is going the other way. The non MFC players at Casey would be paid very little.

What worries me is that VFL form is increasingly meaning little when it comes to determining whether a player can make it at AFL level. They play the same zone style and in the main the games are scrappy and rolling maul in their nature. Casey have been at the top pf the ladder for many years but few players have come out of the system. I know some point to Fritsch but he was only there for a year and was ready made when he played his first game for Casey. Lockhart.. maybe  but hard to think of a Casey player (MFC listed or otherwise) who made it. Mind you I don't think the success rate is much different for most AFL teams. Why.. I have no idea.

I'd like to see 16 players and perhaps some different tactics employed to open up the game. 16 players would reduce costs slightly but more so it might see more open and skilful play.

As an aside the whole VFL salary cap (for all teams) is probably not much different to what the AFL pump into the one game in Shanghai each year.

5 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I agree with your logic but the money would need to come at the expense of something else. The obvious source is the the players wages in the senior team but that is going the other way. The non MFC players at Casey would be paid very little.

What worries me is that VFL form is increasingly meaning little when it comes to determining whether a player can make it at AFL level. They play the same zone style and in the main the games are scrappy and rolling maul in their nature. Casey have been at the top pf the ladder for many years but few players have come out of the system. I know some point to Fritsch but he was only there for a year and was ready made when he played his first game for Casey. Lockhart.. maybe  but hard to think of a Casey player (MFC listed or otherwise) who made it. Mind you I don't think the success rate is much different for most AFL teams. Why.. I have no idea.

I'd like to see 16 players and perhaps some different tactics employed to open up the game. 16 players would reduce costs slightly but more so it might see more open and skilful play.

As an aside the whole VFL salary cap (for all teams) is probably not much different to what the AFL pump into the one game in Shanghai each year.

I think your point about the lack of relationship between VFL and AFL in terms of player development,  form etc. is the exact reason they need to invest in a 2nd tier team.

When the VFL cap (~$350k) is pretty similar to EFL cap (~$220k), there's a problem. The reason the standard is poor is because the best players are spread everywhere. 

The top 15 on AFL lists are a cut above, but 10 are developing, 5 are declining and 10 are journeymen hopefuls waiting to be cut or filling a spot. If a 2nd tour comp existed, with a focus on the next best players in the country, not just development players, then the transition between leagues would be smaller. 

they (afl) need more money for the aflw going into the future (just like in cricket australia)

2 hours ago, daisycutter said:

they (afl) need more money for the aflw going into the future (just like in cricket australia)

These things aren't mutually exclusive. 

The AFL clubs salary caps are nearly $12 million each. The AFL clubs have revenues of $50-$100 million. VFL caps are $350k.

A 2nd tier comp with salary cap of $1 million per club (league total about the same as one AFL club) isn't going to have any impact on the ability of the league to also run an AFLW competition, nor have a material affect on the money available at AFL level. But it will mean the best players are playing there instead of chasing money in the diamond valley league. 

Edit: especially when indirect revenue associated with community and fan engagement, and therefore revenue growth, from AFLW is considered.

 

Edited November 9, 20195 yr by deanox

3 hours ago, deanox said:

The top 15 on AFL lists are a cut above, but 10 are developing, 5 are declining and 10 are journeymen hopefuls waiting to be cut or filling a spot. If a 2nd tour comp existed, with a focus on the next best players in the country, not just development players, then the transition between leagues would be smaller.

But who wants it.

It's a spectacle and as long as the output is controlled who wants to pay for more actors.

Now if the AFL had as its mission the maximisation of player development as distinct from $$$ (or circuses) you would have an excellent point.

BTW... I agree with your sentiment

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

@KC from Casey have you heard anything in regards to recruits? Seems like every year we tend to focus on NAB league players who finish. Our depth this year was quite poor.

Definitely like to see 3 stingrays (unlikely to be drafted) but who I think has excellent potential. Jack Toner - rover/mid, Luca Goonan - ruck river, Blake Kuipers - CHB/ruck.  

21 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

@KC from Casey have you heard anything in regards to recruits? Seems like every year we tend to focus on NAB league players who finish. Our depth this year was quite poor.

No doubt there’s a lot of work going on in the background but very little of a concrete nature will come out until after all of the drafts.

How do these changes, and the administration of the VFL generally, compare with what happens in the other States?  

At first blush, it seems to me we have too many VFL teams. A smaller competition might allow a higher salary cap per club and improve playing standards.

44 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

How do these changes, and the administration of the VFL generally, compare with what happens in the other States?  

At first blush, it seems to me we have too many VFL teams. A smaller competition might allow a higher salary cap per club and improve playing standards.

SANFL and WAFL have ten teams with eight non aligned teams in both leagues. VFL has 15 with five non aligned teams.

Are you suggesting combination of the AFL "back up teams" or removal of the non aligned teams.

Not sure it would help but certainly worthy of discussion.

Perhaps just drop to 16 on the field and perhaps 3 interchange.

13 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

SANFL and WAFL have ten teams with eight non aligned teams in both leagues. VFL has 15 with five non aligned teams.

Are you suggesting combination of the AFL "back up teams" or removal of the non aligned teams.

Not sure it would help but certainly worthy of discussion.

Perhaps just drop to 16 on the field and perhaps 3 interchange.

If I were starting from scratch, I'd keep the VFL to 12 teams, one each for the 10 Victorian based teams and two non-aligned teams who could bid for a licence/franchise. However, I recognise it's not a greenfield opportunity and the various non-aligned teams have varying degrees of merit.

Not sure how the VFL level players feel but I would prefer to play for a non aligned team as one could not help feeling like a secondary level player as part of an aligned team. At least the non aligned teams train together and you are selected purely on form.

The flip side is that if on the fringe you might feel you had a better chance of being noticed and have better back up at an aligned club.

It really is a compromised competition which underscores the problems it faces.

Imagine what a shake up there would be if we had relegation !!

This is why we need a genuine reserves comp.

 

Clubs to have a primary list with only ~30 players, who can play AFL.

A secondary list of 10 players who can only play reserves (and can't get dropped to a state league), but can be upgraded temporarily in the case of injury, or at certain points in the season (ie allow up to 5 non injury primary/ secondary charges after round 11).

A development list of 15 players 18-22, who can only play reserves or in a state league, but clubs have access to upgrade/promote to the primary/secondary list prior to draft.

Edited November 11, 20195 yr by deanox