On 30/06/2020 at 00:33, dazzledavey36 said:

I wanted Casboult 2 years ago when he was on the scrap heap and was up for trade. Got howled down for it. As you say, best hands in the comp and would have taken an extra big body to relive McDonald and Weideman at the time. He won't win you game, but he's a hard working competitor. 

Same mate, been keen on him for a while as I think his strengths fit in well with our mix.

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:33, dazzledavey36 said:

I wanted Casboult 2 years ago when he was on the scrap heap and was up for trade. Got howled down for it. As you say, best hands in the comp and would have taken an extra big body to relive McDonald and Weideman at the time. He won't win you game, but he's a hard working competitor. 

And this is my point, Dazzle.  If that's all you are after, play Brown.  Was he poor Round 1?  Yep.  But I'd argue that a rocket from Goody and a 2nd chance would've been far more productive than getting dropped for a teenager that was nowhere near ready to play senior footy.  Far more productive for the player, and far more productive for the team.

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:39, The Chazz said:

And this is my point, Dazzle.  If that's all you are after, play Brown.  Was he poor Round 1?  Yep.  But I'd argue that a rocket from Goody and a 2nd chance would've been far more productive than getting dropped for a teenager that was nowhere near ready to play senior footy.  Far more productive for the player, and far more productive for the team.

Do you get the feeling the FD is wishing and hoping?

We desperately need another genuine key forward, even if it's a B grader such as Casboult.

We lost on Sunday because of our dysfunctional forward line and we will lose the majority of our games this year because of our dysfunctional forward line.

I was deeply concerned about our forward line over summer and it appears as though my fears have been realised.

The head coach, head of football and list manager all have to be held severely accountable for this.

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:24, The Chazz said:

Brown kicked 21 goals from 16 games in 2019, Casboult kicked 15 from 20.

Brown had a reasonably solid preseason, then got the [censored] after our Round 1 game.  Has kicked bulk goals in every scratch match since.

You will predictably show me their stats for 2020, and it will somewhat give your argument a great deal more substance than mine, but it's why I also questioned the logic of the Football Department.  Their selections this year are absolutely disgraceful, so much so that you are able to use stats that would support why Casboult should be someone we target.

 

I'm not against Brown at all, I would 100% have him in the team at the moment and have put him in my 'ins' the last few weeks in the changes threads. I just think Casboult's leading and marking would fill a much needed space in our forward line, and in those regards he's miles ahead of Brown.

And yes, you are correct in that I will highlight that this season so far Casboult is averaging 7 marks, including 3 contested, 2 marks inside 50, 2 goals & 8 hitouts.

Reckon 2019 is not a 100% true indicator of Brown as he was a target far more often given Daniher played 4 games. Carlton had more options forward.

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:42, old dee said:

Do you get the feeling the FD is wishing and hoping?

An interesting question, Old.  I think there is a fair bit of both.  I also get the feeling that individual players have different expectations/standards put on them by the FD, and that will never make a team gel.

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:46, Lord Nev said:

I'm not against Brown at all, I would 100% have him in the team at the moment and have put him in my 'ins' the last few weeks in the changes threads. I just think Casboult's leading and marking would fill a much needed space in our forward line, and in those regards he's miles ahead of Brown.

And yes, you are correct in that I will highlight that this season so far Casboult is averaging 7 marks, including 3 contested, 2 marks inside 50, 2 goals & 8 hitouts.

Reckon 2019 is not a 100% true indicator of Brown as he was a target far more often given Daniher played 4 games. Carlton had more options forward.

Your stats are flawed.  If you don't want to look at Brown's 2019 because he was the main target (although it could be argued that they looked for Stringer more than Brown), then you can't look at Casboult's game against Essendon (which was undoubtedly his best game for the year, also where he was their main target).

And again, I will talk about the logic of our FD.  Look at Levi's game against us in Round 2 - he was terrible, and arguably as poor as Brown in Round 1 (Brown arguably up against a far superior backline).  Difference?  Casboult kept his spot, played a much better game the next week against Geelong (see my comments last week about the benefit of playing as the 2nd and 3rd tall vs Geelong's backline), and was very good against Essendon.  Brown?  Got dropped after 1 game for a kid.

I'm parking the discussion here.  Reality is, Casboult isn't on our list, and is 4 games in to a (compromised) season where he turned 30 before the first game.  I'll reassess his performance at the end of the season and get back to you.

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:39, The Chazz said:

And this is my point, Dazzle.  If that's all you are after, play Brown.  Was he poor Round 1?  Yep.  But I'd argue that a rocket from Goody and a 2nd chance would've been far more productive than getting dropped for a teenager that was nowhere near ready to play senior footy.  Far more productive for the player, and far more productive for the team.

We have a lot of hard workers. What we need is a player that can turn a game!!

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:42, old dee said:

Do you get the feeling the FD is wishing and hoping?

Yes and they are not exactly sure what that wishing and hoping is...just hoping IT happens

  On 30/06/2020 at 01:23, The Chazz said:

Your stats are flawed.  If you don't want to look at Brown's 2019 because he was the main target (although it could be argued that they looked for Stringer more than Brown), then you can't look at Casboult's game against Essendon (which was undoubtedly his best game for the year, also where he was their main target).

And again, I will talk about the logic of our FD.  Look at Levi's game against us in Round 2 - he was terrible, and arguably as poor as Brown in Round 1 (Brown arguably up against a far superior backline).  Difference?  Casboult kept his spot, played a much better game the next week against Geelong (see my comments last week about the benefit of playing as the 2nd and 3rd tall vs Geelong's backline), and was very good against Essendon.  Brown?  Got dropped after 1 game for a kid.

I'm parking the discussion here.  Reality is, Casboult isn't on our list, and is 4 games in to a (compromised) season where he turned 30 before the first game.  I'll reassess his performance at the end of the season and get back to you.

Mate, the only thing we are disagreeing on is who is better out of Casboult and Brown.

I completely agree with you that Brown should be playing right now, have said that a few times now.

  On 30/06/2020 at 01:29, Lord Nev said:

Mate, the only thing we are disagreeing on is who is better out of Casboult and Brown.

I completely agree with you that Brown should be playing right now, have said that a few times now.

Yeah, see, that's not my disagreement at all.  I'm asking why we would need to bring in someone like Casboult, when we have two key forwards playing suburban football that are more than capable of playing that same role.

I keep shaking my head that Casboult is even forming part of an argument.

 

  On 30/06/2020 at 01:42, The Chazz said:

Yeah, see, that's not my disagreement at all.  I'm asking why we would need to bring in someone like Casboult, when we have two key forwards playing suburban football that are more than capable of playing that same role.

I keep shaking my head that Casboult is even forming part of an argument.

Because Casboult is better than both of them currently and his strengths are the ones we lack.

Neither Weid or Brown are good on the lead and neither look like any danger of taking a contested mark.

It's a bit like saying 'why did we draft Pickett when we already have ANB as a small forward?'.

  On 30/06/2020 at 01:45, Lord Nev said:

Because Casboult is better than both of them currently and his strengths are the ones we lack.

Neither Weid or Brown are good on the lead and neither look like any danger of taking a contested mark.

It's a bit like saying 'why did we draft Pickett when we already have ANB as a small forward?'.

Now you're being silly.

Casboult has never been more than a serviceable player. We’re four games into a highly compromised year and posters want to bring a 31 year old to the club next season? The mind boggles.

Edited June 30, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay

  On 30/06/2020 at 02:27, The Chazz said:

Now you're being silly.

It's your own logic you're criticizing.

  On 30/06/2020 at 02:32, Ethan Tremblay said:

Caboult has never been more than a serviceable player up until this season.

That's the point. We currently don't have a "serviceable" key forward. No is saying we're going to offer huge money or a long contract.

What feasible alternatives are you suggesting?

  On 30/06/2020 at 00:39, The Chazz said:

And this is my point, Dazzle.  If that's all you are after, play Brown.  Was he poor Round 1?  Yep.  But I'd argue that a rocket from Goody and a 2nd chance would've been far more productive than getting dropped for a teenager that was nowhere near ready to play senior footy.  Far more productive for the player, and far more productive for the team.

Chazz, I agree with everything you've said. This whole recruiting Mitch Brown simply does not make sense if we are refusing to to play him. I would rather have just recruited a developing key forward and spend that last senior spot on that kid. If not then let's use Brown as a tall marking target. Even if its going to relieve McDonald for the time being.

Instead the biggest glaring weakness right now is our tall forwards, and yet we have 2 who are currently playing park football on a Sunday morning.

The current list management and coaching of late is mind boggling.

Brown - lol

  On 30/06/2020 at 02:33, Lord Nev said:

It's your own logic you're criticizing.

I'm not, and you are starting to embarrass yourself.

Here, I'll help you.  If you want a more accurate comparison, how about this;  Aaron vandenBerg vs the 2020 Nathan Jones.

Just bring in Weed and stop toying with this developlment 

Bring him in for 4 weeks - let him have a go 

FFS it's infuriating the coaches don't see it

 

.

Edited June 30, 20204 yr by Lord Nev
Deciding to not get sucked into a rubbish slanging match.

  On 30/06/2020 at 03:22, Lord Nev said:

What's embarrassing is you genuinely thinking Brown is a better player than Casboult.

I'm comparing the two players and am really finding bugger all between the two.  Casboult is without doubt a better contested mark, but that's not to say that Brown is a muppet in the air.  Brown is better when the ball hits the ground.  Casboult is a better back up ruck option.  Brown gets the ball more and is far more efficient.

Put it this way, I'm not finding enough in Casboult's favour for me to be having him 2nd on my shopping list of Key Forward targets for 2021.  What I would do is actually look at the strengths of our key forwards that we have on our list and get the rest of the team to play to them.

Other than that, please feel free to re-post where I have said "Brown is a better player than Casboult".

 

  On 30/06/2020 at 03:11, MF-C said:

Just bring in Weed and stop toying with this developlment 

Bring him in for 4 weeks - let him have a go 

FFS it's infuriating the coaches don't see it

 

Collingwood need a key forward, does Weideman already have one foot out the door? 

Weed and Tmac for me. Start with them and leave them to work it out. It's obvious the coaches can't.

  On 30/06/2020 at 03:22, Lord Nev said:

.

Weak AF champ.  You misquoted me, I caught you out, then you deleted your post saying that you didn't want to get sucked in to a rubbish slanging match?

Poor form.