How many does a team really need? I would argue just 1-2 max.

Pies have just Adams with Pendles, Sidebottom & Treloar outside

Tigers have Prestia with Shane Edwards + Martin (inside & outside)

So we have:

• Oliver
• Viney
• Brayshaw
• Harmes

Others who can go mid:

Petracca  & Salem

So we clearly have 1-2 we can offload. We need outside skillful running types like Treloar, Sheed, Higgins.

 

Yes to the above

Even on Saturday we had 4 players contesting every ball.

It must stop! If the players won't move wider then move them on now.

God I hope we aren't coaching them to do this Heaven help us.

  On 26/08/2019 at 22:56, billyblanks29 said:

How many does a team really need? I would argue just 1-2 max.

Pies have just Adams with Pendles, Sidebottom & Treloar outside

Tigers have Prestia with Shane Edwards + Martin (inside & outside)

So we have:

• Oliver
• Viney
• Brayshaw
• Harmes

Others who can go mid:

Petracca  & Salem

So we clearly have 1-2 we can offload. We need outside skillful running types like Treloar, Sheed, Higgins.

 

Think that might have been part of the reason why Goody threw some of the players around, Brayshaw to the wing, Harmes down back and Oliver forward at times. Oliver has that burst when he wants to use it, I reckon they want Brayshaw to run harder for longer in the Pendelbury mould and Harmes offers a lot of flexibility. Viney is a 1 trick pony, but that's not always a bad thing if they others learn a bit more about who's turn it is to go and who needs to look at other options. Fortunatley they only missed minimal games between them so going into another pre-season should know each others game that bit much better.

I wouldn't be saying Treloar is a skilled outside player, he's an inside mid who's got a good burst a good tank but butchers the ball going forward. The Tigers also have Cotchin, so the comparison in player types is similar to what we've got, if as above we can get some of our guys to learn some extra tricks then we'll continue to be well placed in the middle, but we do need some running outside players to complement it, which is why we're going hard after Langdon.

Edited August 27, 20195 yr by Red and Blue realist

  On 26/08/2019 at 22:56, billyblanks29 said:

How many does a team really need? I would argue just 1-2 max.

Pies have just Adams with Pendles, Sidebottom & Treloar outside

Tigers have Prestia with Shane Edwards + Martin (inside & outside)

So we have:

• Oliver
• Viney
• Brayshaw
• Harmes

Others who can go mid:

Petracca  & Salem

So we clearly have 1-2 we can offload. We need outside skillful running types like Treloar, Sheed, Higgins.

 

Comedy gold and to cover injury and loss of form going forward?

  On 27/08/2019 at 01:14, Satyriconhome said:

Comedy gold and to cover injury and loss of form going forward?

Doesn't seem to hinder other clubs...

 

  On 26/08/2019 at 22:56, billyblanks29 said:

How many does a team really need? I would argue just 1-2 max.

Pies have just Adams with Pendles, Sidebottom & Treloar outside

Tigers have Prestia with Shane Edwards + Martin (inside & outside)

So we have:

• Oliver
• Viney
• Brayshaw
• Harmes

Others who can go mid:

Petracca  & Salem

So we clearly have 1-2 we can offload. We need outside skillful running types like Treloar, Sheed, Higgins.

 

I think you will find we will abort our obsession on Contested footy over the pre season, its a game plan that doesn't translate to winning games. I would go and get Shaun Higgins for Sure, he is such a clever footballer who coul dhave 3 more good years liek Shaun Burgoyne playing outside and using the ball with his elite skills.

@Demon3 Interesting and I think you're right. Despite being the best in contested possession & inside 50 differential over past 2 years it simply doesn't work. There was a 'holy trinity' stat that said if you win CP, I50 & Disposal Efficiency I think teams win 80% of games.  I'd say that's where the footy department put their eggs. However correlation isn't always causation & 6/6/6 has stuffed it.

  On 27/08/2019 at 02:22, billyblanks29 said:

@Demon3 Interesting and I think you're right. Despite being the best in contested possession & inside 50 differential over past 2 years it simply doesn't work. There was a 'holy trinity' stat that said if you win CP, I50 & Disposal Efficiency I think teams win 80% of games.  I'd say that's where the footy department put their eggs. However correlation isn't always causation & 6/6/6 has stuffed it.

That third pillar is our downfall all over the ground which undoes our good work on the other two. 

We need to take a leaf out of Ratten's book that if you can't kick you don't play!  Firstly, we need to teach our players how to be poised and composed before disposal.  Firmly believe these can be taught.  If they can't learn then they don't play.

  On 27/08/2019 at 02:41, Lucifer's Hero said:

That third pillar is our downfall all over the ground which undoes our good work on the other two. 

We need to take a leaf out of Ratten's book that if you can't kick you don't play!  Firstly, we need to teach our players how to be poised and composed before disposal.  Firmly believe these can be taught.  If they can't learn then they don't play.

The decision making by the team as a whole was woeful this year and that certainly will stuff up the majority of disposals.

  On 26/08/2019 at 23:04, Kent said:

Yes to the above

Even on Saturday we had 4 players contesting every ball.

It must stop! If the players won't move wider then move them on now.

God I hope we aren't coaching them to do this Heaven help us.

I think it's not that they don't necessarily want to Kent.

My gut feel is it's been ingrained into them from junior ranks then into the next level before getting into the AFL system.

Oliver, Viney and up until this year Jones.  See ball get ball.  A very hard habbit to break even IF they're being instructed to (?).

Others who might be marginally less inclined - Brayshaw, Tracc and possibly Harmes.

Salem about the only one of these who seems to covet the outside with more habit/ease.

Personally i doubt many can make the transition successfully and then, most importantly, finish off their good work.

Tracc a maybe.  Brayshaw as well once Viney came back last year but his disposal is super ordinary.

In the end BB29 is heading in the right direction.  Some will need to be dangled as bait for genuine outsiders.  And don't kid yourself, we need two of them.  I don't think one will cut it given the state of our list.

Edited August 27, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes and Petracca can absolutely play in the same side. 

Every one of them bar Brayshaw has good burst speed.

Every one of them apart from Viney has outside run as part of their game.

Harmes is the only one who has top end fitness. The other 4 need the Burgess magic.

Harmes can play in multiple spots. Petracca can play forward and mid. Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw are all good enough to play minutes in other roles.

I’m in the camp of trading Brayshaw if we can get value but there’s no reason it can’t work a whole lot better than it did this year. 

 

The transition the Dogs made from McCartney to Bevo is what we need and what Alan Richardson has to work with Goodwin on. 

  On 27/08/2019 at 02:22, billyblanks29 said:

@Demon3 Interesting and I think you're right. Despite being the best in contested possession & inside 50 differential over past 2 years it simply doesn't work. There was a 'holy trinity' stat that said if you win CP, I50 & Disposal Efficiency I think teams win 80% of games.  I'd say that's where the footy department put their eggs. However correlation isn't always causation & 6/6/6 has stuffed it.

I think you'll find that probably only applied as the data was capturing teams that had a forward line that could convert at a rate that wasn't a mile off the rest of the comp 29.  We are, more than likely, an outlier.

I don't have the conversion rankings but we would have to be close to rock bottom.

The easiest available stat for 2019 is team/opp average goal differential where we are sitting 2nd last on -3.2.  GC last on -6.2

  On 27/08/2019 at 02:41, Lucifer's Hero said:

That third pillar is our downfall all over the ground which undoes our good work on the other two. 

We need to take a leaf out of Ratten's book that if you can't kick you don't play!  Firstly, we need to teach our players how to be poised and composed before disposal.  Firmly believe these can be taught.  If they can't learn then they don't play.

I would be surprised if that didn't come about via his years under Clarkson LH.

Minimum Team/Individual Standards!  Which are applied and adhered (fairly)  to all.

Edited August 27, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

I am assuming that AFL footballers all have the natural ability to learn new roles  and associated skills. Oliver and Trac should train together all summer. One to learn endurance running and the other to learn how toi handball to a target more than 5 metres away. WOuldn't that make a difference.

I do not think Viney CAN change because his genetic witing is see ball / I want it and I will not give it up. Let's face it he does not lose too amny one on ones.  Somehow we have to get our insiders to back off once we have reasonable chnace of extraction , and be prepared to move wider. Oliver would be sensational with his pace and capacity to control the ball . The hooray punts have killed us this year.

Before we write Brayshaw off, look at some tapes from last year where he broke games open with his vision and delivery.

Lots of work to do over summer, but we have got the cattle to make it succeed.

In a way I am glad we did not get Pick 2 because we would probably traded it to St Kilda for Carlisle. I will go home if they trade their first pick..

For me the players in there aren't the issue, it's the fact they all get sucked in and we get smacked on the outside. we have make shift wingman because we don't have anyone who is genuinely of that position. 

Langdon will help this as will someone like Amon or Newnes if we look at them. 

a lot of it is having a string of inside mids who can't stop their instincts to hunt the ball.

i personally think we need to seriously look at our stoppage coaching and get that set up right, with Gawn silver spooning it to them there is no excuse to not be top 3 in the league for effective clearances. 

another part of this is that the forward line almost never takes vanilla lead up marks because the forward structure/forward craft is a mess.