Bartel on Brisbane's defence (and Melbourne's)

[Earl Hood 6,082]

18 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

One-on-one under the 666 rule makes zone defence look so last century

My hope is that it could be that simple. Just instruct the backline to go man on man and forget zoning. Then instruct all others to go man on man when they have the ball but if we get the ball, then run into space, spread and look for the pass forward. It should be that simple but if it was why are we so [censored]? 

Is that basic plan too hard to follow? At least until we win a game or two. 

 

[beelzebub 23,313]

12 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

 

Is that basic plan too hard to follow? At least until we win a game or two. 

 

All you have to do is run 10 sec 100 m

That's basic.

All you have to do is guard space...that's basic.

All you have to do is kick it to that sixpence inbetween those 3 opposition players at 60m...that's basic.

Much of Goodwin's plan is basic. It's also unachievable on an ongoing reality plane.

It's also unrealistic if the opposition , bless their little hearts , have other ideas about the game.

We have novices in the box surely if this is their idea of progress.

Our game is unplayable.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

43 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

My hope is that it could be that simple. Just instruct the backline to go man on man and forget zoning. Then instruct all others to go man on man when they have the ball but if we get the ball, then run into space, spread and look for the pass forward. It should be that simple but if it was why are we so [censored]? 

Is that basic plan too hard to follow? At least until we win a game or two. 

 

And if we turn it over under pressure because we are so slow, then it's an outnumbered, out of position, overlap easy goal

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Just finished watching ‘on the couch’. My god our defence is a shambles. The footage was laughable. Some of the decisions made by Froscar, Fritsch etc on when to leave your man and go is just horrific. It’s just too complicated I feel. 

Lets just go back to a much more simpler structure and the only time you need to leave your man is if your team mate has basically lost the contest and the opposition is running towards you.

[John Demonic 5,747]

1 hour ago, deespicable me said:

I think we need to look back,,,,,, to go forward... when honorable losses were an art form, web pages were created in honor of Richmonds Jordan McMahon and we could all look forward to juicy "priority picks" and create Messiahs out of young men who hadn't even played a game yet.

Yes lets tank!!!!

I've already booked a corporate box on the wing for round 23 Spoonbowl v Nth Melbourne.

Edited April 8, 2019 by John Demonic

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

For me, it's always been a matter of personnel not being able to execute the style of defence Goodwin is hoping for.

Frost is not smart enough to know when to go, when to hold back, who to cover etc. He doesn't have a footballing brain. He is an athlete who is wildly inconsistent in all facets of the game. 

Oscar is the opposite. He is slow which stifles his positioning ability majorly, he lacks awareness and is super slow to react so he's not really the ideal candidate either. He doesn't have a single standout attribute as far as defending goes.

Of course there are other issues.

Goodwin's strange selection decisions don't help the back six form any sort of cohesion, trust or continuity in their playing. One week we have Hore on debut. Two weeks later it's Wagner taking his spot. The story hasn't changed in that sense since Goodwin took over. Backline is always a shambles. Hunt goes from backline to forwardline over the course of two games.

Every great side have a solid 6 who know how each other play intimately and trust each other. When I see four players fly up for one spoil (including smalls like Jetta and Hibberd), it tells me that those guys have zero faith in Oscar or Frost getting the job done.

I can't see us making any significant progression in that area until May and Lever have played at least 10 consecutive games together at AFL level.

That's when Oscar can drop back to a really minimal third tall role if need be. That's when Jetta can get back to beating the best small forward an oppo have. It's when we'll see Hibberd return to a flank to provide that drive with his run and kicking. Etc etc.

Everyone's roles will be simplified and confidence and structure will be restored.

Until then, we'll continue to be wildly inconsistent as a back 6.

With the return of Lever & a match fit May, MacFrost can be sent back to Casey for some finishing time Steve.  We need to follow the likes of the Hawks here and see rookies spending at least 2 years or so honing their craft (disposal/kicking efficiency and decision making a major part of that), getting plenty of real match time under their belts and learning the MFC defensive system down to a tee (if there is such a thing under Goody) prior to any return to AFL level (if they make it back).

[Lucifers Hero 39,596]

13 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

My hope is that it could be that simple. Just instruct the backline to go man on man and forget zoning. Then instruct all others to go man on man when they have the ball but if we get the ball, then run into space, spread and look for the pass forward. It should be that simple but if it was why are we so [censored]? 

Is that basic plan too hard to follow? At least until we win a game or two.

Great post.

That is exactly what Dew is doing at GCS.  It is perfect for a young and inexperienced team.  I watched the last qtr of GCS game and when the opp had the ball and going forward, GCS players stuck to their man like glue.  They are shaping up to be a good side. 

Coaches often say they build a game plan to suit the team available.  We seem to be doing the opposite and make the players play a zone and team defence even if they aren't capable of doing so effectively, be that for experience, understanding, attitude or fitness reasons.  So indecision and confusion reigns then the system breaks down.

Not sure it is realistic to expect junior players in the system for 5 minutes or just a couple of years to learn the subtleties of zone defence and the required decision making to make it work.  It is especially hard when senior players aren't doing their part to make it work. 

As you say, keep it simple.  We are a relatively young team so 'back to defence basics' would be a good theme in the coming weeks. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[beelzebub 23,313]

11 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

My hope is that it could be that simple. Just instruct the backline to go man on man and forget zoning. Then instruct all others to go man on man when they have the ball but if we get the ball, then run into space, spread and look for the pass forward. It should be that simple but if it was why are we so [censored]? 

Is that basic plan too hard to follow? At least until we win a game or two. 

 

Remarkable that we ( that is to say , those here on Dland ) can appreciate your suggestion. 

And yet the brains trust of our illustrious club can't !!

Play that kind of footy and I dare say you might win more than a game or two

Excellent post Earl 

[beelzebub 23,313]

13 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Great post.

That is exactly what Dew is doing at GCS.  It is perfect for a young and inexperienced team.  I watched the last qtr of GCS game and when the opp had the ball and going forward, GCS players stuck to their man like glue.  They are shaping up to be a good side. 

Coaches often say they build a game plan to suit the team available.  We seem to be doing the opposite and make the players play a zone and team defence even if they aren't capable of doing so effectively be that for experience, injury, attitude or fitness reasons.  So confusion reigns.

Not sure it is realistic to expect junior players in the system for 5 minutes or just a couple of years to learn the subtleties of zone defence and the required decision making to make it work.  It is especially harder when senior players aren't doing their part to make it work.

We are a relatively young team so 'back to defence basics' would be a good theme in the coming weeks.

Ah...the coach that got away

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I would have thought the easiest change to make during a game when the opposition gets a run on is to go to man-on-man.

[beelzebub 23,313]

30 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I would have thought the easiest change to make during a game when the opposition gets a run on is to go to man-on-man.

Totally agree.

Flow chart stuff...if this.. then that..etc etc

There's really not much to it.

Footy by its nature is rather organic in play. You can't possibly hope to be only applying one 'style' with no real adaptability and expect ongoing success.

You need to be a tree... we're trying to be a moving wall. 

[Deemania since 56 6,608]

14 hours ago, beelzebub said:

That was then..this is now.

Much has changed. 2018 is somewhat irrelevant.

We certainly have dropped the baton in the changing-lane zone this year - three times! We naturally expect that the runners are trained and skilled in the transitional exchange of aptitudes from one game to the next, one year to the next as the list changes have not been that variable. He we sit, broken hearted, sad due to the way this season has started. 

[Deemania since 56 6,608]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I would have thought the easiest change to make during a game when the opposition gets a run on is to go to man-on-man.

Spot on.

[TGR 1,367]

15 hours ago, beelzebub said:

All you have to do is run 10 sec 100 m

That's basic.

All you have to do is guard space...that's basic.

All you have to do is kick it to that sixpence inbetween those 3 opposition players at 60m...that's basic.

Much of Goodwin's plan is basic. It's also unachievable on an ongoing reality plane.

It's also unrealistic if the opposition , bless their little hearts , have other ideas about the game.

We have novices in the box surely if this is their idea of progress.

Our game is unplayable.

Goodwin's game style and his cattle are suited to congestion.

Goodwin's game style is ballistic and 5th gear.  Against Essendon, the scoring end was clearly Punt road.  You'd think we could slow it down when Essendon were kicking to the scoring end.  We couldn't.  We have had one speed.  Most teams have 2-3 gears.

[rufus 1,162]

The point about our inability to defend in one on ones is spot on. It goes back to the Paul Roos days. We never learnt how to defend properly...just a modern flood. Obviously right now we need to get more numbers back...all teams still get numbers back. However, realistically we aren't winning anything meaningful with defenders who can't win, or even neutralize a contest. Our defenders just aren't very good. May and Lever will hopefully help. The FD must know how bad our talls are down back, evidenced by the price we were willing to pay in getting May last year.

[Deemania since 56 6,608]

19 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

With the return of Lever & a match fit May, MacFrost can be sent back to Casey for some finishing time Steve.  We need to follow the likes of the Hawks here and see rookies spending at least 2 years or so honing their craft (disposal/kicking efficiency and decision making a major part of that), getting plenty of real match time under their belts and learning the MFC defensive system down to a tee (if there is such a thing under Goody) prior to any return to AFL level (if they make it back).

Fully disagree on Frost. He is actually quick-thinking , to my eye.

So much so, that the rest of the team cannot realise what he is about to do in clearances, rather than defensive moves. Hence, rather than executing, he is seeking realisations across the board and readiness preparation for what might be possible. It is still in the selection of the best move that he is left unsupported. And, he bears the disgrace of the rest of his teammates, so often. 

Freak thinking is required across the board.

Frosty is an imaginative footballer and like his speed, is difficult to dismiss but remains an island, so the team does little in response. Hell, the Whoreform team would love him! So would the Catty Puts. 

[SPC 3,534]

38 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Fully disagree on Frost. He is actually quick-thinking , to my eye.

So much so, that the rest of the team cannot realise what he is about to do in clearances, rather than defensive moves. Hence, rather than executing, he is seeking realisations across the board and readiness preparation for what might be possible. It is still in the selection of the best move that he is left unsupported. And, he bears the disgrace of the rest of his teammates, so often. 

Freak thinking is required across the board.

Frosty is an imaginative footballer and like his speed, is difficult to dismiss but remains an island, so the team does little in response. Hell, the Whoreform team would love him! So would the Catty Puts. 

Quick thinking.. just spat my pizza out.. he has a hamster wheel. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,596]

On 4/8/2019 at 8:44 PM, Earl Hood said:

My hope is that it could be that simple. Just instruct the backline to go man on man and forget zoning. Then instruct all others to go man on man when they have the ball but if we get the ball, then run into space, spread and look for the pass forward. It should be that simple but if it was why are we so [censored]? 

Is that basic plan too hard to follow? At least until we win a game or two.

 

23 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I would have thought the easiest change to make during a game when the opposition gets a run on is to go to man-on-man.

Harmes: “We’re pretty one-on-one and it’s hard for the backs to take aggressive position if the mids aren’t getting back to support and if the forwards aren’t doing their job...Everyone needs to work together in defence – it’s not a one-on-one style that we play.”  We can turn it around

I think he is saying we have been playing one-on-one (could have fooled me) which is not what we want.

No wonder our defence looks confused without cohesion.  Players don't understand which system  they are supposed to be playing. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[John Crow Batty 8,861]

53 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Harmes: “We’re pretty one-on-one and it’s hard for the backs to take aggressive position if the mids aren’t getting back to support and if the forwards aren’t doing their job...Everyone needs to work together in defence – it’s not a one-on-one style that we play.”  We can turn it around

I think he is saying we have been playing one-on-one (could have fooled me) which is not what we want.

No wonder our defence looks confused without cohesion.  Players don't understand which system  they are supposed to be playing. 

Make him captain.

[Deemania since 56 6,608]

On 4/9/2019 at 7:15 PM, SPC said:

Quick thinking.. just spat my pizza out.. he has a hamster wheel. 

It is an opinion, that is all. So, the next time I cannot reach a stance on a matter, can I give you a call for alms? 

[SPC 3,534]

16 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

It is an opinion, that is all. So, the next time I cannot reach a stance on a matter, can I give you a call for alms? 

No worries.. Hanging your hat on one performance? Big Bud could have had 10 last night.