2 hours ago, Dockett 32 said:

Jack has had 157 games to demonstrate to the footy world to prove that he is a high quality , consistent dangerous forward and put the issue beyond doubt like say Cameron , Lynch, Pavlich etc. Trouble is he hasn't at Melbourne and on the basis of the number of games he's had seems unlikely to do this for us. An opportunity for a fresh start might be just the thing to spur him on and give us the chance to do some fine tuning. ie Opportunity for both parties.

Honestly don't see the need for any wrist slashing on this.

Surely the  coaching and recruiting staff reserve the right to make appropriate football decisions that they feel is in the best interest of all.

After all the buck stops with them and they ultimately stand or fall on the back of them

Excellent summary.

If we get Lever we need to trade in order to get a reasonable pick in the draft. Plus we have the Weed waiting in the wings. Hogan and Pedersen as talls. T Mc can play forward tall. Maybe Smith will improve heaps?

Would hope for around 15 - 20 pick.

So trading Jack is really a no brainer. Hope he gets where he wants.

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

We faced a VFL strength side and stank it up. If the coach doesnt accept responsibility...he ought go find another job

"One of the things that is very hard from a coaching viewpoint is to provide effort," Pyke said. 

23 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

It seems Goodwin and McCartney are on the same page. That's enough for me.

Add Jones and probably Viney to that as well.

If Watts goes, it's a club-wide decision. Seems pretty clear everyone has had enough. What's that saying about nice guys finishing last?

5 minutes ago, manny100 said:

If we get Lever we need to trade in order to get a reasonable pick in the draft. Plus we have the Weed waiting in the wings. Hogan and Pedersen as talls. T Mc can play forward tall. Maybe Smith will improve heaps?

Would hope for around 15 - 20 pick.

So trading Jack is really a no brainer. Hope he gets where he wants.

It will be around mid to late 20's.  No chance of being a 1st rd pick

What have the last 2 premiership sides have in common, they werent scared to let players go.  Deledio last year similar to Watts well liked and teased the supporters with glimpses of their talents 

17 minutes ago, willmoy said:

A different side next year, look for it. Watts goes, and the value we get will also decide who else stays and goes, i would think, so don't be surprised. I just hope the powers that be, who advise the changes to the rules, know what they are doing. I was not impressed this year because it looked as though they jumped based on a possible advantage to some where it didn't at all.

We have telegraphed this move to the whole competition I wouldn't be expecting too much compo. Why would any club offer much unless there is some bidding war when Goodwin has said plainly, in AFL speak at least that he is not a required player. We will be lucky to get a third round pick or fringe player in return and we will be paying part of his salary for 2 years. Win Win I don't think. 

The only sense I can make of this situation is that Goodwin has decided he needs to make a very plain statement to the rest of the list that anything less than 100% commitment will not be tolerated. 

I love the modern workplace whether it is AFL or medium to large corporate workplaces. We have never had so many managers, so many management resources, but we have never so quick to restructure out of the place, people who don't adhere completely to the code of conduct, the corporate blueprint or whatever. Technically talented people who question the status quo, call a spade a spade are often sacrificed to maintain the corporate culture. I don't always buy it, people can be mentored and performance managed to make it clear that if you meet our agreed targets your in, if you don't, we may need to move you on. But also the corporation needs to be able to handle some diversity itself if it wants to prosper. Of course with so much management these days, the tolerance for diverse opinion or behavaviour has never been lower.

Has MFC been through this with Jack this season and Made plain to him the consequences of failure I don't know.

2 minutes ago, drdrake said:

What have the last 2 premiership sides have in common, they werent scared to let players go.  Deledio last year similar to Watts well liked and teased the supporters with glimpses of their talents 

Don't undersell Delidio 'drdrake', he was a serious A grader/elite talent until injury got the better of him.

It was said for a while there...no Delidio, no Richmond and that was true.

The Tiges did the right thing to move him on...he had no more to give and I doubt he will give much more to GWS.

48 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Ok just for fun

Players I rate ahead of JW (obviously this is my opinion and is subjective)

Hogan, Garlett, Pederson, VIney, Lewis, Oliver, T Mac, Gawn, Vince, Tyson, Tracc, Jetta, Hibbered, Jones, Hunt.

I believe these guys have offered more consistent team contributions then JW this year. 

Cheers

OK 

now Pederson is good but will he be a regular in Goodwins team if he has a lean period or plays just fair? Garlett played just fair when he had to be better in some of his games even though he had some personal issues.Tyson can lift and he has too and Hogan lets hope that  his head is clear.

You picked the 15 that you think in your opinion are better than JW l am sure he would then fit in your 22 .  I don't think that you are a critic of JW but if he leaves, I wonder if you would be happy when he does play well for someone else? Howerver he had a very good season or 2 under Roos, he didn't drop him when he had a lean period JW asked to be dropped and only for that one match and came back better. ROOS didn't degrade him like NEELD and GOODWIN had done.

Seriously other clubs would laugh at the carry on here about Watts. 

He isn't worth this much debate.... He is simply not that good.   He is a mid tier player in a mid tier side. 

As for his worth....he is a player who has been in the system 8 years so the reality is that what you see is what you get. 

You are getting a highly skilled flanker who moves smoothly with consistent issues with intensity and fluctuating levels of commitment.

One of the reasons that he is so polarising is that the good parts of his game are so good and the bad parts are real bad. 

Another thing to consider is his place in the modern game. 

Where does he play?   I don't think he gets a game in the Tiger's side yesterday.

13 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

OK 

now Pederson is good but will he be a regular in Goodwins team if he has a lean period or plays just fair? Garlett played just fair when he had to be better in some of his games even though he had some personal issues.Tyson can lift and he has too and Hogan lets hope that  his head is clear.

You picked the 15 that you think in your opinion are better than JW l am sure he would then fit in your 22 .  I don't think that you are a critic of JW but if he leaves, I wonder if you would be happy when he does play well for someone else? Howerver he had a very good season or 2 under Roos, he didn't drop him when he had a lean period JW asked to be dropped and only for that one match and came back better. ROOS didn't degrade him like NEELD and GOODWIN had done.

Yes he did.  He dropped him.  You can spin it however you like, but he was still dropped due to poor form.  It's the same old chestnut every time.

And prove to us how Goodwin has 'degraded' him, which is such a ridiculous statement I don't even know why I am acknowledging it.

4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Yes he did.  He dropped him.  You can spin it however you like, but he was still dropped due to poor form.  It's the same old chestnut every time.

And prove to us how Goodwin has 'degraded' him, which is such a ridiculous statement I don't even know why I am acknowledging it.

Then don"t if you are not sure.......... go find the papers on those days look it up learn before you have your big say.

52 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Add Jones and probably Viney to that as well.

If Watts goes, it's a club-wide decision. Seems pretty clear everyone has had enough. What's that saying about nice guys finishing last?

So JW is a nice guy? GOOD CALL.....but he hasn't finished  last. Work that one out.

 

45 minutes ago, drdrake said:

What have the last 2 premiership sides have in common, they werent scared to let players go.  Deledio last year similar to Watts well liked and teased the supporters with glimpses of their talents 

Did he tease you?

8 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

Then don"t if you are not sure.......... go find the papers on those days look it up learn before you have your big say.

Go find the papers?  Yeah, I'll just pull those out of my back pocket.

You can keep spinning it, but it always lands the same.  He's been dropped by Bailey, Neeld, Roos and Goodwin.  That speaks volumes for his consistency, even after 157 games.

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Go find the papers?  Yeah, I'll just pull those out of my back pocket.

You can keep spinning it, but it always lands the same.  He's been dropped by Bailey, Neeld, Roos and Goodwin.  That speaks volumes for his consistency, even after 157 games.

Geez, I hate to go in the trenches with you Benedict Arnold.

Perhaps the FD can work out a compromise to appease the supporters? 

My suggestion: Trade Watts to a Victorian based club and then hire him as a part-time goal kicking coach. Win-Win. 

2 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Perhaps the FD can work out a compromise to appease the supporters? 

My suggestion: Trade Watts to a Victorian based club and then hire him as a part-time goal kicking coach. Win-Win. 

To straighten out Hogans stride  and kicking style from 50 metres and beyond.

5 hours ago, mo64 said:

Obviously the rumours that you've heard paint JW in a bad light. If that's the case, why would you find it a bitter pill to swallow if we traded him?

You listen to rumours do you?

52 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

We have telegraphed this move to the whole competition I wouldn't be expecting too much compo.

As if the rest of the competition doesn't already know more about Jack than anyone on this Board will ever know.

And every other player on our list for that matter. And we theirs.

6 hours ago, Redleg said:

I was actually asking what he said.

So slagging is now what you can read between the lines. That means he is not actually using words to slag, but hidden meanings that need to be interpreted. Wow!

Also, as to bringing back Roosy, you should talk to some of the players, because they wouldn't agree.

You know the players wouldn't agree? Do you have inside information? I used to think Goodwin might be a good coach but if things backfire next year because of Jack Watts exit I will know for sure he has big weaknesses.

28 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

You know the players wouldn't agree? Do you have inside information? I used to think Goodwin might be a good coach but if things backfire next year because of Jack Watts exit I will know for sure he has big weaknesses.

Out of curiosity Bobby, why will things backfire?  Jack is one player.  It's not as if someone like Clayton Oliver has been put up for trade.  Watts has talent but he rarely affects the outcome of a game.  So why would things backfire?  Makes little sense to me.

Edited October 1, 20177 yr by Wiseblood

1 hour ago, nosoupforme said:

Then don"t if you are not sure.......... go find the papers on those days look it up learn before you have your big say.

You’re re-writing history.

Watts dropped himself in May 2015.

Roos dropped him a few months later, for the final match of the season. 

Edited October 1, 20177 yr by Grapeviney

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Out of curiosity Bobby, while will things backfire?  Jack is one player.  It's not as if someone like Clayton Oliver has been put up for trade.  Watts has talent but he rarely affects the outcome of a game.  So why would things backfire?  Makes little sense to me.

YOUR NOT A VERY WISE MAN . YOU ARE VERY NEGATIVE. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN NICE TO YOURSELF?