Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

Wise, I agree it is worth being cautious.

But Jack seemed to confirm a potential trade when he said something like:  I want to stay but it depends on what the club wants to do, I suppose.  Not something a player with 2 years on his contract would say if a trade wasn't being considered (doesn't mean it will happen).

Even if he was interviewed to speak to his love of the club I see no benefit to the club or to Jack. 

If the club wanted to skwosh rumours the best thing to do is say nothing or have his manger say clearly that he is not up for trade like Connors did for Salem and he didn't do when asked about Watts.

I agree on all counts, LH.  I don't want to see Watts traded and IF he has been put up for trade and we've allowed the interview then it's very poor form from our end.  I guess I was just asking @rpfc to hold fire on sinking the boots in until we truly have something concrete to work with.

It does seem a strange time for an interview at any rate.  I'd rather hear nothing about the club unless it's a confirmation Lever is coming to the club.  They can do their talking on the training track over summer.

the more things change....the more they stay the same

MFC...the Groundhogs !!

One thing that did seem clear - it's up to the coaches now whether he stays or goes. He said he'd prefer to stay but is aware that the club might want to move him on.

14 minutes ago, Akum said:

One thing that did seem clear - it's up to the coaches now whether he stays or goes. He said he'd prefer to stay but is aware that the club might want to move him on.

Again, pushes his market value down.  It comes across as the club is off loading him, you would only trade him if he is part of a deal that will make us better or a top 30 pick, I can't see us getting the latter so he either stays or is a part of a player trade.

Maybe the club has confronted Jack and said along the lines of "if you can't pull your finger out and lift your commitment and application to the competitive and performance requirements of being a MFC player, then let us know and we'll trade you."

From the Jones interview it seems clear that Jack had a challenging post season interview/review and that other senior players deem his efforts and intensity inadequate for someone of his talent and tenure.

The fact that Jack is still being passive about his future indicates to me, that the penny is yet to drop with him, that its actually up to him to lift or leave, not the footy dept.

It's a shame, as its getting clearer that Jack probably needs the spur of being rejected by the MFC and the challenge of proving himself to a new club to get the best out of himself. 

2 hours ago, dees189227 said:

As I put in another thread

Watts said he and Goodwin have no issues and he said he wishes he was taken pick 72 in a rookie draft and just play footy without the attention. 

On footy classified they mentioned if the right trade came along watts could go. Mentioned the pies are after him. If he goes to collingwood I will be disgusted. I couldnt handle him being in a black and white jumper. 

Watts could cure cancer and people would still criticise him. 

This comment looking from another angle, also suggests that he's a boy & he just wants to have fun.

That he doesn't play for the kill, but just for kicks.

34 minutes ago, Akum said:

One thing that did seem clear - it's up to the coaches now whether he stays or goes. He said he'd prefer to stay but is aware that the club might want to move him on.

I think the coaches want a fierce contesting List. built on a base of courage under fire.

 

I wonder if the board & admins are backing the Footy dept to the hilt, or if 'the softening' in still underway, around the upper echelons of this club?

25 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Maybe the club has confronted Jack and said along the lines of "if you can't pull your finger out and lift your commitment and application to the competitive and performance requirements of being a MFC player, then let us know and we'll trade you."

From the Jones interview it seems clear that Jack had a challenging post season interview/review and that other senior players deem his efforts and intensity inadequate for someone of his talent and tenure.

The fact that Jack is still being passive about his future indicates to me, that the penny is yet to drop with him, that its actually up to him to lift or leave, not the footy dept.

It's a shame, as its getting clearer that Jack probably needs the spur of being rejected by the MFC and the challenge of proving himself to a new club to get the best out of himself. 

How is he being passive exactly ?

32 minutes ago, DV8 said:

This comment looking from another angle, also suggests that he's a boy & he just wants to have fun.

That he doesn't play for the kill, but just for kicks.

Seemed to me to be a puff-piece full of throwaway lines. Weird that it's being dissected so avidly.

I'd say it's far more likely from his resilience over the years that he's got such a strong & well-rounded character that he's been able to deal with the massive amount of garbage that's been flung his way over many years now, as much by supporters of his own club than from elsewhere. And that his self-esteem is robust enough that it doesn't stand or fall depending on his success or otherwise in sport, and he's mature enough to accept that sometimes life goes the way you want it and sometimes it doesn't.

But your way is good too.

https://twitter.com/7AFL/status/911893088875945984?s=09

Goody's response here sounds like they want him to fulfill his 3 yr contract. But he does normally play a very straight bar bat.

35 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

How is he being passive exactly ?

By passing or placing responsibility for him staying or leaving in the hands of the Footy Dept, instead of taking full responsibility for where he's at and acknowledging it was his choices that have led him to this situation and that it would be (and will be) his choices that will lead him onto whatever comes next for him.

I.e. the Footy Dept lays down criteria for success at MFC, Player X (Jack), then chooses the extent they will adhere and excel to these requirements... If at end of the year, Jack's under performed, to go passive and say it's in the hands of the FD, is a dishonesty and self deception, as Jack chose to underperform. 

@PaulRB Thats not how it works. Watts can be affirmative as to his desire to stay...and the FD can still look to shop him.

He hasnt total control. 

Do you actually know whats been said by either party or purely extrapolating from the limited public bites avail ?

By all means whip him more. Everything's his fault after all.

16 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

By passing or placing responsibility for him staying or leaving in the hands of the Footy Dept, instead of taking full responsibility for where he's at and acknowledging it was his choices that have led him to this situation and that it would be (and will be) his choices that will lead him onto whatever comes next for him.

I.e. the Footy Dept lays down criteria for success at MFC, Player X (Jack), then chooses the extent they will adhere and excel to these requirements... If at end of the year, Jack's under performed, to go passive and say it's in the hands of the FD, is a dishonesty and self deception, as Jack chose to underperform. 

Tell that to James McDonald, Brad Green, Jack Trengove, etc etc.  

You can take full responsibility for "where you're at" without presuming to control everything that's going to happen to you.  Jack's intelligent - he would not make the silly assumption you appear to be making.  Being intelligent and realistic is not being passive.  And presumptuousness is not = being active or "proactive", either.  

21 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

https://twitter.com/7AFL/status/911893088875945984?s=09

Goody's response here sounds like they want him to fulfill his 3 yr contract. But he does normally play a very straight bar bat.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Everything he said was pure "Footy Speak".

Unless he comes out and says that Watts won't be considered for trade and will be playing at the MFC next year, you can take it that a trade is possible.

 

1 hour ago, Akum said:

Seemed to me to be a puff-piece full of throwaway lines. Weird that it's being dissected so avidly.

I'd say it's far more likely from his resilience over the years that he's got such a strong & well-rounded character that he's been able to deal with the massive amount of garbage that's been flung his way over many years now, as much by supporters of his own club than from elsewhere. And that his self-esteem is robust enough that it doesn't stand or fall depending on his success or otherwise in sport, and he's mature enough to accept that sometimes life goes the way you want it and sometimes it doesn't.

But your way is good too.

Thats probably true Akum, that his self esteem is very solid, & satisfied.

His character, I'm sure is perfect, like his looks are apparently appreciated by many in the media.

 

He is very layed back on telly as you can see by his laconic way.   Many a spoilt person has similar traits Re self esteem, & confidence around other people, & in front of cameras.

 

But we need players at Melbourne, who feel like they need to prove themselves to others.

To strive to do all they can too prove their adequacies, out on the footy field.

The type of players who carry much pain & hurt, & have the fire to try to show others that they are as good, or better than others they feel less than around.

 

Could it be, that we've traditionally recruited far too many of the types you described. Those self assured & self loving type players, who go on to being fine upstanding city-zens?

Could it be that we bring in the fine & pure. 

And those recruits on the fringe of being fine & pure types, we turn into those self assured, fully secure players who don't need to prove anything, to anyone?

Especially under fire on a footy field.

 

That to me sounds very much like it could easily be someone like a watts.

 

And I agree with you Akum, that my way, when you turn it over to look at it, does look good as well.

I guess some of today's posts show clearly that we've moved into the second act of the "established-player-who-might-leave"  play.

First act is speculation. Second act is character destruction. Third act is resolution, and fourth act depends on whether they stay or go.

We've seen it recently with T Mac & Hogan, and before that with Howe & Frawley.

I think that with Watts, the character destruction is going to be a lot harder, without saying things that to most people are clearly wrong. The attitude of supporters of other clubs is that, whatever you think of him as a footballer, he must have an amazingly strong character to have stood up to the amount of [censored] that's been flung at him over the years. Most of us can see that.

Nevertheless, on the Monday before the Grand Final, let Act II begin.

7 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Thats probably true Akum, that his self esteem is very solid, & satisfied.

His character, I'm sure is perfect, like his looks are apparently appreciated by many in the media.

 

He is very layed back on telly as you can see by his laconic way.   Many a spoilt person has similar traits Re self esteem, & confidence around other people, & in front of cameras.

 

But we need players at Melbourne, who feel like they need to prove themselves to others.

To strive to do all they can too prove their adequacies, out on the footy field.

The type of players who carry much pain & hurt, & have the fire to try to show others that they are as good, or better than others they feel less than around.

 

Could it be, that we've traditionally recruited far too many of the types you described. Those self assured & self loving type players, who go on to being fine upstanding city-zens?

Could it be that we bring in the fine & pure. 

And those recruits on the fringe of being fine & pure types, we turn into those self assured, fully secure players who don't need to prove anything, to anyone?

Especially under fire on a footy field.

 

That to me sounds very much like it could easily be someone like a watts.

 

And I agree with you Akum, that my way, when you turn it over to look at it, does look good as well.

Not sure why you're so upset about this. You've said yourself, he should go. For what it's worth, I'm coming around to agree with you on that.

Still, if it makes you feel better, by all means continue to play the man and not the ball.

26 minutes ago, Akum said:

Not sure why you're so upset about this. You've said yourself, he should go. For what it's worth, I'm coming around to agree with you on that.

Still, if it makes you feel better, by all means continue to play the man and not the ball.

I'm not upset. I didn't catch the direction of your words. This is my natural personal outlook on things.

But I thought you were Pro watts in your efforts. 

If you are for trading him, than I missed that in your post. Sorry about that.

- - - - - - - - -

 

You know one of the ways to not feel torn up by others critiquing your abilities, is to hold your breath and refuse to play by the 'others' rules.

a sort of cool & detached nonchalance about what you do.. as sort of not caring too much, so then things don't break you.

IN lower levels of sport, this can help "defeated people" to compete, by feeling less pressure,,, as the win/loss is much less important. So they feel less pressure, & so can focus whilst at ease.

 

I myself have arrived at this position in life. As a way of deflecting other peoples negatives, pressures & judgements aimed on me.

So I became like this to survive.  To avoid the pain when you think there is no winning. (defeatist).

.

This is not the way for an AFL player, to become the best he can.

Our players should strive & hunger to take on anyman, one on one, & feel confident they could bea7 that opponent.

 

But not feel so good about them4selves before they even arrive at a footy club. 

They should feel hollow with pain, from not compe7ing against the best.

It is pretty simple, Jack Watts will be traded if the Football Club thinks the trade will make us better.  He will play for Melbourne next season if this isn't the case.

2 minutes ago, drdrake said:

It is pretty simple, Jack Watts will be traded if the Football Club thinks the trade will make us better.  He will play for Melbourne next season if this isn't the case.

How dare you not over-complicate it!

2 minutes ago, drdrake said:

It is pretty simple, Jack Watts will be traded if the Football Club thinks the trade will make us better.  He will play for Melbourne next season if this isn't the case.

Pretty much.

Suspect the interested clubs will offer "unders". That won't advance the cause so i suspect he'll stay.

Every player has his price. If you could get Dusty for Watts you'd do it.

Watts has been put up before, but the Dees got no realistic bites.

If Collingwood gave us a first round pick for Watts, would you do the deal?

47 minutes ago, DV8 said:

I'm not upset. I didn't catch the direction of your words. This is my natural personal outlook on things.

But I thought you were Pro watts in your efforts. 

If you are for trading him, than I missed that in your post. Sorry about that.

- - - - - - - - -

 

You know one of the ways to not feel torn up by others critiquing your abilities, is to hold your breath and refuse to play by the 'others' rules.

a sort of cool & detached nonchalance about what you do.. as sort of not caring too much, so then things don't break you.

IN lower levels of sport, this can help "defeated people" to compete, by feeling less pressure,,, as the win/loss is much less important. So they feel less pressure, & so can focus whilst at ease.

 

I myself have arrived at this position in life. As a way of deflecting other peoples negatives, pressures & judgements aimed on me.

So I became like this to survive.  To avoid the pain when you think there is no winning. (defeatist).

.

This is not the way for an AFL player, to become the best he can.

Our players should strive & hunger to take on anyman, one on one, & feel confident they could bea7 that opponent.

 

But not feel so good about them4selves before they even arrive at a footy club. 

They should feel hollow with pain, from not compe7ing against the best.

Thanks mate, I feel like I understand you a whole lot better. Takes a lot of bottle to put stuff like this out, really admire you for it.

For me, it's sounding much more to me as if it's heading for Watts leaving, though I'm 50/50 about whether it will be a good thing for us or not. I'm concerned that it may unbalance us too much toward contested ball winners with iffy disposal. For players whose strengths are in uncontested footy, which every side needs, I don't think we handle them well at all.

And it's probably getting to the point where, with the way our game plan is developing, we need someone with a different set of skills to play his position. I'm not convinced of that myself, but it looks like it's the way things are heading.

So I get the impression, including from that strange TV interview last night, that it's down to the coach's call, and that's probably the way it should be. But I do admire Watts's character - very few could have been through what he's been through and still be standing strong like he seems to be. I hope for Watts's sake that he really is dealing with this as well as he seems to be.

And I believe that if someone that he respects (Goody, probably) came to him and told him sincerely that they think it would be better for the team if he goes, it wouldn't be what he'd want, but he'd cop it sweet & go.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Pretty much.

Suspect the interested clubs will offer "unders". That won't advance the cause so i suspect he'll stay.

Agree, but if we want him, he'll stay, and if we don't want him, he'll go. If we only want him to stay if we can't get a certain price for him, that just leaves the situation unresolved.

And if we don't want him, of course interested clubs will offer unders. They're aware of the situation.

For the record, all this Trade Watts stuff craps me to tears. I think he has become a remarkable and - until the injury this season - one of our most consistent performers.

It's obvious there is a rift between what Roos expected and what Goodwin expects.

Have also heard from an ex AFl player who knows people connected with Melbourne FC that Watts is on the table.

I would be very sad to see him go.