Really interesting stats by the SEN boys about turnovers. They're borrowing the NFL term "giveaways" and "takeaways"...

 

Giveaways = blatant turnovers, like kicking it to opposition.

Takeaways = when you kick it to a contest and the opposition win it.

Ox asks punters to offer the player at their club that's the biggest culprit, and offers up Ozzie as his club's main villain.

 

And the stat? Ozzie has had 3 turnovers all year. But all three were giveaways. Interesting. Or at least I thought so...

(Merge with ozzie thread if required, mods)

Forgive me for the potentially silly question, but who the hell is Ozzie?  Is it Oscar McDonald?

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Forgive me for the potentially silly question, but who the hell is Ozzie?  Is it Oscar McDonald?

Seriously? Who the hell else would it be when discussing turnovers. Ozzie Ostrich? lol

Just now, Dappa Dan said:

Seriously? Who the hell else would it be when discussing turnovers. Ozzie Ostrich? lol

Yes, seriously.  I've never heard him called that.  

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Yes, seriously.  I've never heard him called that.  

Yeah my last probably came off harsh.

I just thought it was funny that Ozzie could be confused for anyone else concerned with MFC. Had I opened with "Jack" I'd understand.

For what it's worth, I'm an Ozzie fan. He cops a massive beating, and that's ok. People have their views. But given he's played only a handful of games I think he's awesome and will end up being massive for us in 4 years. So I do have a subtle leaning towards defending him.

2 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah my last probably came off harsh.

I just thought it was funny that Ozzie could be confused for anyone else concerned with MFC. Had I opened with "Jack" I'd understand.

 

But you didn't even mention the MFC. Anyways, I'm interested in this stat breakdown. Do you have more to share?

Edited April 13, 20178 yr by Skuit

Just now, Skuit said:

But you didn't even mention the MFC. Anyways, I'm interested in this stat breakdown. Do you have more to share?

 Really? I need to explain it's about an MFC player.... on demonland...?

 

Actually the segment just completed. I really like some of Kingy's stats. They're a bit out there, and often require some explanation. But they're good entertainment.

They did lead with a bit of a caveat. Some of the leading turnover kings are guys like Dangerfield. When you get that much of the ball in the clinches and have to dump it, of course you're gonna be high on turnovers. So the inverse of that is that Ozzie doesn't get 25-30 touches too often, so of course he's not going to have too many turnovers.

They had some interesting details as well. Some of the huge names in footy that rate highly for turnovers. Laird was one that surprised me. Priddis was also claimed to have a turnover only once every 7 touches, which I found interesting given he's known to be an average kick (but good handball).

I was expecting more demonlanders to have listened in and want to chime in at the singling out of Omac by Ox.

Who is Ozzie?

Now I'm not a huge O Mac fan, but is a "giveaway" any worse than missing a set shot for goal from 40m or closer? In the same light, many posters have brought up ANB's giveaway on the weekend, but failed to mention all the individuals who missed regulation set shots.

3 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Now I'm not a huge O Mac fan, but is a "giveaway" any worse than missing a set shot for goal from 40m or closer? In the same light, many posters have brought up ANB's giveaway on the weekend, but failed to mention all the individuals who missed regulation set shots.

Good point. I think the giveaway can potentially be worse in modern footy... because, let's say a player is pressing up and drills a ball to half forward and it's a horrible turnover that is an easy rebound and goal for the opposition. That's effectively more like a 12 point turnaround. Whereas... A missed shot on goal... that's a point to the positive on the scoreboard, and the opposition are then at least 3 50 metre kicks from scoring again? Also... I don't have the numbers, but I'd love to see the goals from turnovers stat for certain teams. Us, Us against.... compared to, say, the Saints and Bombers who rebound well.

Edited April 13, 20178 yr by Dappa Dan

8 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

 Really? I need to explain it's about an MFC player.... on demonland...?

 

Actually the segment just completed. I really like some of Kingy's stats. They're a bit out there, and often require some explanation. But they're good entertainment.

They did lead with a bit of a caveat. Some of the leading turnover kings are guys like Dangerfield. When you get that much of the ball in the clinches and have to dump it, of course you're gonna be high on turnovers. So the inverse of that is that Ozzie doesn't get 25-30 touches too often, so of course he's not going to have too many turnovers.

They had some interesting details as well. Some of the huge names in footy that rate highly for turnovers. Laird was one that surprised me. Priddis was also claimed to have a turnover only once every 7 touches, which I found interesting given he's known to be an average kick (but good handball).

I was expecting more demonlanders to have listened in and want to chime in at the singling out of Omac by Ox.

Plays different position to Danger, as you mention, but IIRC Omac has had quite a few games with 20+ possies, especially 2nd half of last year. Someone with better stats could answer exactly. Not bad for a newbie KPD.

Edited April 13, 20178 yr by Moonshadow

1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

Plays different position to Danger, as you mention, but IIRC Omac has had quite a few games with 20+ possies, especially 2nd half of last year. Someone with better stats could answer exactly. Not bad for a newbie KPD.

Yeah he's a lot like his bro. Can get on the end of it a lot, especially when switching... Just had a look. he's had 4 games over 20 possessions (23, 23, 22 and 20) in his home and away career. Not sure about pre season. Has only played 18 games though.

Oscar is certainly Melbourne fans' favourite player to hate. When we lose or perform poorly it's generally his fault. Forget the fact he's played like 20 games and plays as a defender with as much confidence as a 200 gamer, and has also -- coincidentally -- been part of a team that has started a rise up the ladder. Make no mistake that he along with his bro are part of the reason why we are improving. 

I'm much more concerned about Tyson, Viney, and Vince whenever they have the ball in the back half.

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Yes, seriously.  I've never heard him called that.  

I take it you like being difficult...

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Now I'm not a huge O Mac fan, but is a "giveaway" any worse than missing a set shot for goal from 40m or closer? In the same light, many posters have brought up ANB's giveaway on the weekend, but failed to mention all the individuals who missed regulation set shots.

For the team it is much worse but on an individual basis it is just as equally bad kick.

Lewis has had more direct turnovers than Oscar. 

I really dislike this topic. Why are we using  North American sporting terminology to "analyse" Australian Rules Football? I 've had enough of the words offence and defence. And some bozos are using the word quarterback when analysing games!!We play an Australian game so lets not Americanise it.

2 minutes ago, Dingo said:

I really dislike this topic. Why are we using  North American sporting terminology to "analyse" Australian Rules Football? I 've had enough of the words offence and defence. And some bozos are using the word quarterback when analysing games!!We play an Australian game so lets not Americanise it.

Fair enough. I love NFL. And am not precious about terminology. Each to their own.

In other news, Ozzie out. Wowee.

Wait, so are you saying Oscar is good or bad?

1 hour ago, praha said:

Oscar is certainly Melbourne fans' favourite player to hate. When we lose or perform poorly it's generally his fault. Forget the fact he's played like 20 games and plays as a defender with as much confidence as a 200 gamer, and has also -- coincidentally -- been part of a team that has started a rise up the ladder. Make no mistake that he along with his bro are part of the reason why we are improving. 

I'm much more concerned about Tyson, Viney, and Vince whenever they have the ball in the back half.

And just like that...

1 minute ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Wait, so are you saying Oscar is good or bad?

I think he's gonna be ok in the long run. Moreso I find the topic interesting. Interesting in the sense that list-wise, he's important and a divisive player on these boards. At least this year. There's players we all love more, like Tracca, Oliver, Hogan... but they're not contentious. They're made men. Ozzie, I reckon, will be really interesting... and as he improves, we'll improve.

I'm fascinated by the worst 6 guys who play fro us every week. Likewise, the worst 10 or so guys on the list every year. Some of the players included in that group in recent years, Wagner, Hunt, Stretch, Kent, Pedo, AVB, JKH, ANB, Jetta, Harmes.... Some of those names have me genuinely excited. I can't say I've ever felt the need to keep an eye on these no-names like I do now, as a consequence of Todd's work. I know he's high on Ozzie, so I'm really looking forward to how he'll turn out.

2 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Really interesting stats by the SEN boys about turnovers. They're borrowing the NFL term "giveaways" and "takeaways"...

 

Giveaways = blatant turnovers, like kicking it to opposition.

Takeaways = when you kick it to a contest and the opposition win it.

Ox asks punters to offer the player at their club that's the biggest culprit, and offers up Ozzie as his club's main villain.

 

And the stat? Ozzie has had 3 turnovers all year. But all three were giveaways. Interesting. Or at least I thought so...

(Merge with ozzie thread if required, mods)

So hang on. The Ox put forward OMac (I'm not calling him Ozzie) even though he's only had three turnovers in three games? It must have been an inspiring segment. I'm sure Oscar's average of one turnover a game sparked lots of discussion. 

Surely, you'd pick a player that exhibits this "giveaways" and "takeaways" theory...?

Loved Schwarta as a player, but as a commentator he appeals to the lowest common denominator. 

Just now, A F said:

So hang on. The Ox put forward OMac (I'm not calling him Ozzie) even though he's only had three turnovers in three games?

 

Jeez people are precious about terms like giveaways and nicknames of players on Demonland these days? What happened?

I should clear that up though. They introduced the segment as an examination of turnover stats. Ox then put it to the punters to say who at their club is their biggest turnover player, and immediately nominated Ozzie (I will call him that. Literally dozens of people I know do). THEN Kingy corrected him and showed he's only had the three turnovers. That came as a surprise to Ox. And me, frankly. Common view on here is that he's a woeful kick. This stat suggests that's worth examining.

Having said that, turnovers don't include the times when a ball hits the deck and Ozzie fails to beat his opponent to clear it. I think a lot of people, myself included, see half a dozen mistakes that don't technically count as turnovers from the kid. 

14 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

 

Jeez people are precious about terms like giveaways and nicknames of players on Demonland these days? What happened?

I should clear that up though. They introduced the segment as an examination of turnover stats. Ox then put it to the punters to say who at their club is their biggest turnover player, and immediately nominated Ozzie (I will call him that. Literally dozens of people I know do). THEN Kingy corrected him and showed he's only had the three turnovers. That came as a surprise to Ox. And me, frankly. Common view on here is that he's a woeful kick. This stat suggests that's worth examining.

Having said that, turnovers don't include the times when a ball hits the deck and Ozzie fails to beat his opponent to clear it. I think a lot of people, myself included, see half a dozen mistakes that don't technically count as turnovers from the kid. 

I was taking the [censored] about the name, mate. I don't care what he's called, although I'm with WB in that I hadn't heard him referred to as Ozzie before.

So how many takeaways did he create? Did they have that stat or not? Because if they didn't, they should have if they were going to use this as a segment. It has legs as a way of examining efficiency. I hate the DE stat and the turnover stat, as this topic would suggest, is misleading.

My view on Oscar is that he offers a fair bit but is still a work in progress. The occasional spell in the twos won't do him any harm at all.

The thing that keeps freaking me out is I can't stop likening him to Prince George from Blackadder when I see him running around on the field.

I better check my medication!