11 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Oliver, Game 1. 

 

That handpass to vandenBerg right at the end is something else.

5 hours ago, A F said:

If that's the case, how do you explain GWS losing their best mid in Treloar? Is that a sign of poor list management? 

Treloar wasn't their best mid. At least i don't think so. I would have had Greene, Cognilio and Shiel all ahead of him. 

8 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Look at their 2012 draft.

Don't need to. My comments were in reference to SOS and the drafting since he has been at the club i.e. 2015/16 drafts

1 hour ago, binman said:

Treloar wasn't their best mid. At least i don't think so. I would have had Greene, Cognilio and Shiel all ahead of him. 

IMO Greene's never been their best mid. He's played his best footy as a forward. He butchered it as a midfielder. 

I'll admit that Shiel v Treloar is a closer thing, but I'd lean towards Treloar.

And as for Cognilio, his break out season was last year after Treloar had left.

I'm not sure why people are running to defend SOS. Surely, all you need to do is look at the first three picks in the 2012 draft? He's been an unmitigated disaster as a recruiter and I only hope that the Carlton FD keep defending him like some on here do. 

Carlton need to get just about every pick right if they're going to get themselves off the bottom of the ladder, otherwise they're in big trouble.

If GWS didn't have the unrivaled access to draft concessions that they did have, he'd have flunked out there and it would have been a lot more obvious.

Can you imagine if Jason Taylor had picked Whitfield, O'Rourke and Plowman at 1, 2, 3? He would never work again, unless it was at Carlton - see Barry Prendergast as Opposition Analyst.

8 hours ago, A F said:

If that's the case, how do you explain GWS losing their best mid in Treloar? Is that a sign of poor list management? 

It was good list management.  GWS got 2 top 10 picks for him and still have an awesome midfield.

29 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

It was good list management.  GWS got 2 top 10 picks for him and still have an awesome midfield.

Right. Well, each to their own. Their midfield is good, but nowhere near as good as it was with him in it. He was worth 2 first rounders too.

If the Pies had their time again surely they punt Hine when we went after his deputy on Neeld's recommendation.

4 hours ago, A F said:

IMO Greene's never been their best mid. He's played his best footy as a forward. He butchered it as a midfielder. 

I'll admit that Shiel v Treloar is a closer thing, but I'd lean towards Treloar.

And as for Cognilio, his break out season was last year after Treloar had left.

I'm not sure why people are running to defend SOS. Surely, all you need to do is look at the first three picks in the 2012 draft? He's been an unmitigated disaster as a recruiter and I only hope that the Carlton FD keep defending him like some on here do. 

Carlton need to get just about every pick right if they're going to get themselves off the bottom of the ladder, otherwise they're in big trouble.

If GWS didn't have the unrivaled access to draft concessions that they did have, he'd have flunked out there and it would have been a lot more obvious.

Can you imagine if Jason Taylor had picked Whitfield, O'Rourke and Plowman at 1, 2, 3? He would never work again, unless it was at Carlton - see Barry Prendergast as Opposition Analyst.

When you have sooooooo many first round picks with the AFL'S support it's possible to become lazy about making each one count. Now they are using them more wisely by trading out some of the largesse they have been gifted. The new zone rules will make it more difficult, however the horse may have bolted.

But I agree, SOS is over rated as a recruiter. Very happy with Taylor.

Edited March 31, 20178 yr by Moonshadow

25 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

When you have sooooooo many first round picks with the AFL'S support it's possible to become lazy about making each one count. Now they are using them more wisely by trading out some of the largesse they have been gifted. The new zone rules will make it more difficult, however the horse may have bolted.

But I agree, SOS is over rated as a recruiter. Very happy with Taylor.

I just can't see them being lazy. I just don't think SOS is a talent scout.

I'll tell you what I am excited for. Jason Taylor getting another shot at a first rounder at the end of this year.

It'd be fascinating to know what the FD rates as our biggest list weakness. I'm not saying we'd recruit on a needs basis. I think you pick the best player and that's been our motto under Taylor and co, but it's an interesting discussion.

In terms of the 2017 draft, I read somewhere on Demonland the other day that there are apparently quality talls this year. I'd love us to pick up another midfield bull, but wouldn't say no to another KPB either.

Just now, A F said:

I'll tell you what I am excited for. Jason Taylor getting another shot at a first rounder at the end of this year.

It'd be fascinating to know what the FD rates as our biggest list weakness. I'm not saying we'd recruit on a needs basis. I think you pick the best player and that's been our motto under Taylor and co, but it's an interesting discussion.

In terms of the 2017 draft, I read somewhere on Demonland the other day that there are apparently quality talls this year. I'd love us to pick up another midfield bull, but wouldn't say no to another KPB either.

As much as we rate our midfield, I still believe we cannot have enough high end talent through the middle. It wasn't long ago that we were screaming for help for Chunk. If a quality mid is there, I'd be happy for Taylor to pick em. Or it could be a trade for our first rounder. We are the new destination club, after all!  

8 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

As much as we rate our midfield, I still believe we cannot have enough high end talent through the middle. It wasn't long ago that we were screaming for help for Chunk. If a quality mid is there, I'd be happy for Taylor to pick em. Or it could be a trade for our first rounder. We are the new destination club, after all!  

Yep, I'm with you. We're still an A grader or two down in the midfield.

The interesting aspect will be the likely range of our first-round pick - possibly around the 10-14 bracket. Unfamiliar territory and a genuine test of Taylor's abilities.

46 minutes ago, A F said:

I'll tell you what I am excited for. Jason Taylor getting another shot at a first rounder at the end of this year.

It'd be fascinating to know what the FD rates as our biggest list weakness. I'm not saying we'd recruit on a needs basis. I think you pick the best player and that's been our motto under Taylor and co, but it's an interesting discussion.

In terms of the 2017 draft, I read somewhere on Demonland the other day that there are apparently quality talls this year. I'd love us to pick up another midfield bull, but wouldn't say no to another KPB either.

A Key Defender who can set up the play with their disposal for mine. 

1 hour ago, demoniac said:

A Key Defender who can set up the play with their disposal for mine. 

Not many of those. Tommy Mac does, but most KPDs aren't great set up players. They mostly just defend brilliantly. Rance is a decent set up player, but I take your comment to infer you want a Rance with Suckling-like disposal. Pretty damn rare.

I think we'd be stoked to get a Frawley equivalent, which is around where we selected Frawley anyway.

But I reckon judging by Goody's comments last year, we'd prefer the extra quality mid and would look to develop role players for our defensive zone as plug and plays (ie Frost and McDonald type athletes).

14 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Also "good recruitment" could actually be a result of good development..?

Perhaps it's the arrival of Roos, Macca and Goodwin that is the reason Taylor looks like a genius? 

No doubt that helps in the long run, but Oliver had 20+ very good touches and got a rising star nom in his first game as a porky 18 year old. Roos and co are good, but not 4 month miracle workers. Taylor drafted pure talent and it's been on show since. 

Where the development takes him is even more exciting. 

 

 

As for the the rest of the thread re Trealor, he was easily their best mid the year he left. 

1 hour ago, A F said:

Not many of those. Tommy Mac does, but most KPDs aren't great set up players. They mostly just defend brilliantly. Rance is a decent set up player, but I take your comment to infer you want a Rance with Suckling-like disposal. Pretty damn rare.

I think we'd be stoked to get a Frawley equivalent, which is around where we selected Frawley anyway.

But I reckon judging by Goody's comments last year, we'd prefer the extra quality mid and would look to develop role players for our defensive zone as plug and plays (ie Frost and McDonald type athletes).

Talia would've been nice around now

On 28/03/2017 at 4:43 PM, Abe said:

I really think sos is an extremely overrated recruiter and has set Carlton back with some of his giants imports I mean why would anyone bother with Jed lamb or palmer??

Palmer was definitely to free up salary cap space for GWS as that's what they valued. Silvagni would know Palmer is a stop gap, but it allowed Carlton to pay "unders" for other players with draft picks as the salary cap space it created for GWS evens it up.

Lamb... I can't explain that one.

Isaac Smith, Josh Kelly, or dare I say it, even the gut-running Rodent, is the type of player that would round out our midfield.

The gut-running rodent's kicks generally get too much air. Ideally someone like a Salem can build their tank to fill that linking midfielder role for us.

6 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

The gut-running rodent's kicks generally get too much air. Ideally someone like a Salem can build their tank to fill that linking midfielder role for us.

Salem doesn't have speed.

I'd like a gut-running speedster who delivers well.

Kelly would be perfect. 

Agree with you on Kelly.

Yep having Kelly would pretty much complete the midfield rebuild. 

1 hour ago, Lampers said:

Palmer was definitely to free up salary cap space for GWS as that's what they valued. Silvagni would know Palmer is a stop gap, but it allowed Carlton to pay "unders" for other players with draft picks as the salary cap space it created for GWS evens it up.

Lamb... I can't explain that one.

Problem is that it's a crap strategy, why recruit someone you know is a list clogger? 

 

36 minutes ago, Abe said:

Problem is that it's a crap strategy, why recruit someone you know is a list clogger? 

 

Because as we know you can't get rid of all your list cloggers in one draft.  If taking one for another means you get cheap deals on other players where is the cost?

Marchbank and Pickett will be very good players.  The balance were steak knives.