On 12/11/2016 at 07:59, Chris said:

To a degree I agree. they are victims of trusting the wrong people. fact is though that they trusted the very people you are trained not to in an ASADA sense. As an athlete you are trained to trust no one but ASADA with the stress of what you take. Therefore they are also victims of their own poor judgement. 

I know what you're saying but the pressure to conform in a footy club must be immense especially when you are reassured by the footy dept that all is above board and the likes of Doc Reid says nothing. As a medico myself I am disgusted by his lack of intervention. I can't help but think the players were placed in a no win situation - a bit like an army private disobeying the orders of a general.

  On 12/11/2016 at 12:22, chook fowler said:

I know what you're saying but the pressure to conform in a footy club must be immense especially when you are reassured by the footy dept that all is above board and the likes of Doc Reid says nothing. As a medico myself I am disgusted by his lack of intervention. I can't help but think the players were placed in a no win situation - a bit like an army private disobeying the orders of a general.

Frankly this makes Jobe's inaction, as a leader and captain of that young list, where newly drafted players were looking up to him for guidance and leadership, all the more shameful. The endless "good guy" narrative wore thin years ago.

It's reminiscent of the endless anti-Trump media campaign in the US. People saw through it and got tired of being told how they need to think and behave, what is acceptable and what isn't. Just as people see right through the mindnumbingly biased pro-drug-cheat propaganda that's been pedaled by brown-nosing journalists desperate to curry favour with AFL HQ and maintain their cushy media accreditations.

And for the record, I was not pro-Trump. Merely drawing a parallel that people are getting fed up with the media telling us how to think. I would struggle to find a single non-Essendon supporter who doesn't see through the rubbish that Robbo is pedalling. The damage he's done to his own and News Corp's reputation (if gutter journalism is a reputation you can even damage) is incalculable.

  On 12/11/2016 at 12:22, chook fowler said:

I know what you're saying but the pressure to conform in a footy club must be immense especially when you are reassured by the footy dept that all is above board and the likes of Doc Reid says nothing. As a medico myself I am disgusted by his lack of intervention. I can't help but think the players were placed in a no win situation - a bit like an army private disobeying the orders of a general.

that's where the likes of Watson are even more culpable. 

  On 12/11/2016 at 12:22, chook fowler said:

I know what you're saying but the pressure to conform in a footy club must be immense especially when you are reassured by the footy dept that all is above board and the likes of Doc Reid says nothing. As a medico myself I am disgusted by his lack of intervention. I can't help but think the players were placed in a no win situation - a bit like an army private disobeying the orders of a general.

Doc Reid still at the club

  On 12/11/2016 at 23:09, Fifty-5 said:

Doc Reid still at the club

Exactly - the real miscreants haven't paid the full price unlike the players

  On 12/11/2016 at 23:32, chook fowler said:

Exactly - the real miscreants haven't paid the full price unlike the players

unfortunately the code didn't allow for that then, it does now. 

  On 13/11/2016 at 00:13, Chris said:

unfortunately the code didn't allow for that then, it does now. 

Which again reinforces the idea that Essendon is still nothing more than a club that would rather get away with what it can rather than aim high and do what it should.

i'd just like one player to come out and say unequivocally and simply 'i/we did the wrong thing, i/we were guilty' instead of the spin that is so much part of life these days. i'm not holding my breath.

  On 13/11/2016 at 00:43, daisycutter said:

i'd just like one player to come out and say unequivocally and simply 'i/we did the wrong thing, i/we were guilty' instead of the spin that is so much part of life these days. i'm not holding my breath.

Kyle reimers did.

  On 13/11/2016 at 01:55, biggestred said:

Kyle reimers did.

'cept he wasn't one of the "34" charged

can't remember what he actually admitted too though

  On 11/11/2016 at 11:54, daisycutter said:

well we disagree then moonie. as does the ioc. a "long time" didn't stop the afl retrospectively awarding brownlows to those who lost on the then rules of countback either. it may well be within the afl's purvey to award no winner, but if i was cotchin or mitchell i'd feel cheated out of my rightful brownlow by a drug cheat. the passage of time doesn't diminish an injustice

but, just my opinion, moonie

There are examples of larger sports where no winner or prize was awarded due to doping. eg Tour de France.

agree to disagree, no probs

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by Moonshadow

  On 13/11/2016 at 04:10, Moonshadow said:

There are examples of even bigger sports where no winner or prize was awarded due to doping. eg Tour de France.

agree to disagree, no probs

I can see where some wouldl say there is a void to fill if Jobe disqualified ( when ..really )  . My preference though is for a 'no winner" result. This is some respects  pays respect to the medal itself.

  On 13/11/2016 at 04:10, Moonshadow said:

There are examples of even bigger sports where no winner or prize was awarded due to doping. eg Tour de France.

agree to disagree, no probs

I think there were some years in the Tour de France you would need to scroll down to the 79th placed rider to find a clean athlete. In AFL terms you would end up having Simon Godfrey wearing the yellow jersey 

well we'll find out in 2 days.

i suspect they will take the option that placates essendon but

  On 12/11/2016 at 13:07, SaberFang said:

Frankly this makes Jobe's inaction, as a leader and captain of that young list, where newly drafted players were looking up to him for guidance and leadership, all the more shameful. The endless "good guy" narrative wore thin years ago.

It's reminiscent of the endless anti-Trump media campaign in the US. People saw through it and got tired of being told how they need to think and behave, what is acceptable and what isn't. Just as people see right through the mindnumbingly biased pro-drug-cheat propaganda that's been pedaled by brown-nosing journalists desperate to curry favour with AFL HQ and maintain their cushy media accreditations.

And for the record, I was not pro-Trump. Merely drawing a parallel that people are getting fed up with the media telling us how to think. I would struggle to find a single non-Essendon supporter who doesn't see through the rubbish that Robbo is pedalling. The damage he's done to his own and News Corp's reputation (if gutter journalism is a reputation you can even damage) is incalculable.

Well I am a non Essendon supporter and I think Robbo presented another view, I also didn't think it was rubbish, and despite your vociferousness, I am sure you will find others who think the same.  you just need to look somewhere besides the pack mentality on here

You will find Chook Fowler has a similar opinion to myself on what occurred with the players

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by Satyriconhome

  On 13/11/2016 at 05:11, Satyriconhome said:

Well I am a non Essendon supporter and I think Robbo presented another view, I also didn't think it was rubbish, and despite your vociferousness, I am sure you will find others who think the same.  you just need to look somewhere besides the pack mentality on here

Robbo presented another view? Well yeah, if a subjective, wholly biased Essendon supporter using blatant lies and mistruths to present an "opinion" that he's been instructed to present by high-ranking Essendon fans who hold senior positions at News Corp is your definition of presenting another view, sure. You're well within your rights to not consider that rubbish.

Personally I'll take the side of ASADA, WADA, the Swiss High Court and the Court of Arbitration for Sport who all agreed these players are convicted drug cheats, over the gutter journalism of a drunk.

And I have no doubt there are people who have fallen for the systematic, media-driven "poor players" narrative. I'm very relieved the overwhelming majority see right through it (and I'm certainly not getting my statistics there from the "pack mentality" of Demonland).

  On 13/11/2016 at 04:19, fndee said:

I think there were some years in the Tour de France you would need to scroll down to the 79th placed rider to find a clean athlete. In AFL terms you would end up having Simon Godfrey wearing the yellow jersey 

And what a worthy recipient Simon would be! 

  On 13/11/2016 at 04:13, beelzebub said:

I can see where some wouldl say there is a void to fill if Jobe disqualified ( when ..really )  . My preference though is for a 'no winner" result. This is some respects  pays respect to the medal itself.

Agree. Your last sentence sums it up beautifully bub.

  On 12/11/2016 at 12:22, chook fowler said:

I know what you're saying but the pressure to conform in a footy club must be immense especially when you are reassured by the footy dept that all is above board and the likes of Doc Reid says nothing. As a medico myself I am disgusted by his lack of intervention. I can't help but think the players were placed in a no win situation - a bit like an army private disobeying the orders of a general.

Zaharakis had no issues refusing to partake in the program. Every player had a choice, naivety is no excuse for willingly allowing hundreds of mystery injections enter your body. Nobody had a gun to their heads.

  On 13/11/2016 at 05:28, SaberFang said:

Zaharakis had no issues refusing to partake in the program. Every player had a choice, naivety is no excuse for willingly allowing hundreds of mystery injections enter your body. Nobody had a gun to their heads.

Wasn't Zacha's fear of needles the reason he didn't participate, or was he against the supplement program? Not sure.

  On 13/11/2016 at 05:32, Moonshadow said:

Wasn't Zacha's fear of needles the reason he didn't participate, or was he against the supplement program? Not sure.

Thats what was presented to the public as his reason to not particpate.

  On 13/11/2016 at 05:25, SaberFang said:

Robbo presented another view? Well yeah, if a subjective, wholly biased Essendon supporter using blatant lies and mistruths to present an "opinion" that he's been instructed to present by high-ranking Essendon fans who hold senior positions at News Corp is your definition of presenting another view, sure. You're well within your rights to not consider that rubbish.

Personally I'll take the side of ASADA, WADA, the Swiss High Court and the Court of Arbitration for Sport who all agreed these players are convicted drug cheats, over the gutter journalism of a drunk.

And I have no doubt there are people who have fallen for the systematic, media-driven "poor players" narrative. I'm very relieved the overwhelming majority see right through it (and I'm certainly not getting my statistics there from the "pack mentality" of Demonland).

Well said Saber

  On 13/11/2016 at 05:11, Satyriconhome said:

Well I am a non Essendon supporter and I think Robbo presented another view, I also didn't think it was rubbish, and despite your vociferousness, I am sure you will find others who think the same.  you just need to look somewhere besides the pack mentality on here

You will find Chook Fowler has a similar opinion to myself on what occurred with the players

Robbo presented an incredibly biased view without any basis in fact. My view is also not from following any pack, it is from someone who was once under the WADA code before ASADA even existed. I have an understanding of what is expected, what the rules are, and how the whole thing works. The bias spouted by much of the AFL media and the AFL itself is embarrassing misinformed rubbish. The AFL industry are decades behind the times on this and it shows. The whole anti WADA commentary is ridiculous in the extreme and is doing far more damage than good. 

The only thing that has stopped me from turning from the game is that the AFL actually respected the 12 month bans without too much fuss (although there was quite a bit). Much more and I was gone, no matter how good the future looks for the dees. 

Time for the AFL industry and it's supporters to grow the f up.

Saty  and similar ilk; Mines far from a pack thinking mentality.  Dare I say  i was among a handful from the beginning who urged and directed this be taken seriously. That's not to blow my own trumpet per se, just to put context on where I've been the whole time.

The horse carrying any credibility for the likes of Robbo, Warner and a whole swag of others shot through long ago.

As we have seen this past week, there's a lot in the Media with agendas and a fair slice of the media itself bias.

Some of us just think for ourselves.

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by beelzebub

  On 13/11/2016 at 05:59, beelzebub said:

Thats what was presented to the public as his reason to not particpate.

So Zacha lied as well, and Robbo is a drunk

In this whole topic, there has been maybe 6 or 7 who have been really vociferous, yourself included, and a couple , including myself, who have tried to put an opposite view.

Maybe there could be more with the opposing view but are unlikely to post not wishing to receive the same sort of feedback I have been receiving

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by Satyriconhome