I cannot believe that I am reading this on demonland. I hope Watts has a read! 

 

No one has outlined who is in it at the moment. I'd say it would probably be the same as Dunn, H, Dawes and Garland were removed this year weren't they? Can't imagine anyone is in there that hasn't been playing well this year. 

Watts Viney,Gawn jetta T mac VDB

We need new leadership for the future

13 minutes ago, Dee-licious said:

I cannot believe that I am reading this on demonland. I hope Watts has a read! 

 

No one has outlined who is in it at the moment. I'd say it would probably be the same as Dunn, H, Dawes and Garland were removed this year weren't they? Can't imagine anyone is in there that hasn't been playing well this year. 

I think if Watts was a reader of demonland he would have jumped off a building years ago. For his sake and ours I hope he never goes near this site!

15 hours ago, picket fence said:

I think given where we are and our personel, I would like to see the following on field leadership structure in 2017

CAPT   NATHAN JONES

VC  JACK VINEY

DVC  JACK WATTS

DVC  MAX GAWN

DVC  BERNIE VINCE

Good call  Picket and timely.  From Watts' press conf today:  "I've been working really hard on contest. The coaches are right into me. Leadership aspect important for me to improve".

 

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

Hard to know how Jack W is seen off-field, AFL leaders have a tendency to be hard-nosed pricks, and not sure that's our Jack.

On the other hand, if on-field leadership is standing up under pressure, making a difference, and leading by example, then Jack showed that today.

I recall this being discussed earlier in the season.  From memory, feedback to Jack was something like - he is a great fella and terrific to have around the club but teammates wanted him to be more serious and earn their respect. 

Remember when a few years ago in an in interview he said something like: we don't have a Hodge or a Selwood type leader.  He failed to see that he could contribute as a leader preferring to wait for someone else to do it.  He sees it now!

Not only has his on-field game improved he has become a really big asset to our club.  With confidence and belief in himself and his game we are seeing him become a MVP.  Its a delight to watch him grow into the champion a few of us on DL always thought he would be.

10 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good call  Picket and timely.  From Watts' press conf today:  "I've been working really hard on contest. The coaches are right into me. Leadership aspect important for me to improve".

 

I recall this being discussed earlier in the season.  From memory, feedback to Jack was something like - he is a great fella and terrific to have around the club but teammates wanted him to be more serious and earn their respect. 

Remember when a few years ago in an in interview he said something like: we don't have a Hodge or a Selwood type leader.  He failed to see that he could contribute as a leader preferring to wait for someone else to do it.  He sees it now!

Not only has his on-field game improved he has become a really big asset to our club.  With confidence and belief in himself and his game we are seeing him become a MVP.  Its a delight to watch him grow into the champion a few of us on DL always thought he would be.

Last para is spot on Lucifer. Who would have thought 12 months ago that we would see Jack blossom the way he has. As many others have said, it is great credit to Jack and his coaches. He is definitely exhibiting leadership qualities in addition to what he is bringing on the field. We can thank him for the 4 points on Sunday. He is our good news story of 2016.

27 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Last para is spot on Lucifer. Who would have thought 12 months ago that we would see Jack blossom the way he has. As many others have said, it is great credit to Jack and his coaches. He is definitely exhibiting leadership qualities in addition to what he is bringing on the field. We can thank him for the 4 points on Sunday. He is our good news story of 2016.

He continually makes efforts to get to young players around the ground providing support, particularly after they have made mistakes. He ran 50m to get to harmes (a least i think it was harmes) after his shocker of a turnover that turned into a GC goal. This the sort of leadership we need to see with such a young team. Love Jones but i dont see him do this often enough, he just goes about his business and hopes everyone will follow. I'd still be having Jones as captain for the time being though, he is the right face for the club. Jack is the perfect leader from the back where as Jones and soon Viney are leaders from the front.

Leadership group rather than just "best players" group...

Captain: Jones

VC: Viney, Jetta

Rest: Watts, Kent, Gawn

IMO our biggest leadership weakness is organizational leadership. Jones leads by example, but that example is purely effort, it's not direction, strategy or verbally "rallying the troops". Unfortunately we don't have anyone who has that but also has the other captaincy qualities, so Jones stays on for another 2 years until Viney is ready to captain the club.

 

29 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

He continually makes efforts to get to young players around the ground providing support, particularly after they have made mistakes. He ran 50m to get to harmes (a least i think it was harmes) after his shocker of a turnover that turned into a GC goal. This the sort of leadership we need to see with such a young team. Love Jones but i dont see him do this often enough, he just goes about his business and hopes everyone will follow. I'd still be having Jones as captain for the time being though, he is the right face for the club. Jack is the perfect leader from the back where as Jones and soon Viney are leaders from the front.

Jones got to him as well, but I agree. The leaders don't do this enough and it's really telling. I'd love playing alongside Hunt. After every little dash he does that creates another scoring opportunity, I'd be getting around him after that. We don't and it must just be my family that finds it frustrating and endemic to Melbourne.

3 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Jones got to him as well, but I agree. The leaders don't do this enough and it's really telling. I'd love playing alongside Hunt. After every little dash he does that creates another scoring opportunity, I'd be getting around him after that. We don't and it must just be my family that finds it frustrating and endemic to Melbourne.

If Jones got to him I take that back I just didnt see it.

There is a definite lack of support to the player that creates scores. Players like Watts and Hogan always look to the man who delivered the ball for their goal. That sort of support is what we want to see more of. Kent and Tracc do did it as well yesterday, I want to continually see it happen and from everyone.  

24 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Jones got to him as well, but I agree. The leaders don't do this enough and it's really telling. I'd love playing alongside Hunt. After every little dash he does that creates another scoring opportunity, I'd be getting around him after that. We don't and it must just be my family that finds it frustrating and endemic to Melbourne.

Ya gotta catch him to get to him. That kid is like a greyhound.

But, in all seriousnes, we do sometimes lack that, and sometimes we get around too much when the business at hand is getting back and doing the job.

Chunk is leading the kids brigade, and at other teams he'd be just another older player. I don't think he's suited for the role, but then again I can't think of anyone else that would be better. Watts needs to roam free. He is finally growing into the player we hoped for all those years back, and Viney is too young.

There are a bunch of U23's that might one day put there hand up, but that for 2018/19/20. Not today. Right now Nate is the best man we have for the job.

17 hours ago, picket fence said:

I think given where we are and our personel, I would like to see the following on field leadership structure in 2017

CAPT   NATHAN JONES

VC  JACK VINEY

DVC  JACK WATTS

DVC  MAX GAWN

DVC  BERNIE VINCE

You are missing a player to lead the defence, every other area of the ground is covered. I would have TMac or maybe Jetta in there for that role, or maybe a new recruit senior player if we land one as Jetta and TMac are both still fairly inexperienced themselves. 

I also wouldn't have Vince in there, he seems to be the social leader of the club, not the game day leader. 

Not sold on Gawn either but also not against it. 

I would have:

C - N Jones

VC - J Viney (to take over in 2019)

Forward - Watts

Backs - TMac

Mids - Tyson (Jones and Viney fill this role as well and would give Tyson some good experience for once Jones has gone)

Other - Jetta

15 hours ago, bing181 said:

Hard to know how Jack W is seen off-field, AFL leaders have a tendency to be hard-nosed pricks, and not sure that's our Jack.

On the other hand, if on-field leadership is standing up under pressure, making a difference, and leading by example, then Jack showed that today.

Its an interesting conundrum I think.

They often say leaders are born on the battlefield, well if thats the case ol' Jackie has well and truly earned his stripes of late. In a very no nonsense way his has grown to epitomise the very thing you have to do...and that is "DO" .. John Kennedy would applaud. He read the game very very well and put himself at every possible turn into a positin to affect the game. My god he's come a long way this year. 

What ever is in his cereal ...pass it round the table. Others need to eat !!

This isnt a pot at Tom but I just dont think he's General material down there. The most experienced by far...but ...

The boys follow Chunk....and thats something of a worry really...as where ever it is he goes in the 4th our lot often seem to follow !!

Im not sure Viney is just ripe yet enough to take over but he too is a battlefield promoted leader.

Gawn...a given.

Id seriously contemplate putting Trenners back into tht leadership group if he maintains the AFL standard. The lads  revere him...and rightly so.

Reality  lets see who IS the 2017 list  maybe

7 hours ago, hemingway said:

Last para is spot on Lucifer. Who would have thought 12 months ago that we would see Jack blossom the way he has. As many others have said, it is great credit to Jack and his coaches. He is definitely exhibiting leadership qualities in addition to what he is bringing on the field. We can thank him for the 4 points on Sunday. He is our good news story of 2016.

when was the last time a Demon stamped himself so emphatically on a game....and won it !!

Often is thrown around that is a team game , a team effort , a team win.  Yesterday belonged to Jack Watts.  Ive been on his back at times, as have many here, but by crikey Id like to buy the lad a beer..Sorry...Buy the man a beer 

Jones has earned the right to lead and his seniority and experience means he stays in that position a little while longer. It is difficult unless you are in the club to know who is right person to lead. Personally I have reservations about Viney as captain because of his poor disposal and occasional lack of discipline. Certainty in the leadership group for his work ethic and passion. Max has been a revelation this year not only as a ruckman but as a member of the leadership group. Bernie is a no because to me he hasn't led this year but is a senior player who doesn't need a title to show leadership.

Goodwin's influence will dictate next year who is in the group. I am not convinced the T. mac will stay and would not be surprised to see the likes of Tyson, Vandenberg and Bugg being nominated. We are still light on for experience and standout leaders and I think Watts has earned his right to be a leader and has committed to the club long term........

Edited August 1, 20168 yr by Older demon

16 hours ago, bing181 said:

Hard to know how Jack W is seen off-field, AFL leaders have a tendency to be hard-nosed pricks, and not sure that's our Jack.

On the other hand, if on-field leadership is standing up under pressure, making a difference, and leading by example, then Jack showed that today.

Ah, the second of those scenarios reminds me of one, Sir Robert A Flower !!! Give me that type of leader anyday!!!

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Ah, the second of those scenarios reminds me of one, Sir Robert A Flower !!! Give me that type of leader anyday!!!

No one will ever be Tulip....but maybe someone has taken notice of what needs to be done. I'll give you  that

Agree Rob lead with an air of excellence, few if any have matched!. A leader which almost defies description! 

In state games he was peerless! As Captain in State games he was almost Transcendental!!

Edited August 1, 20168 yr by picket fence

10 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Agree Rob lead with an air of excellence, few if any have matched!. A leader which almost defies description! 

In state games he was peerless! As Captain in State games he was almost Transcendental!!

Oh Picket, how beautifully expressed! How deep was our love and admiration for this mortal man who in our minds has become immortal.

I don't see Jones instruct the players or move them around like chess pieces like Hodge does. 

Jones is a lead-by-example type of captain and will just crack in, which is fine when everyone knows what to do, but with such a young team we need a captain who can educate, structure and organise. Pendlebury also does this really well.

I think Watts should be in the leadership group, and he understands structures and roles better than most. Unfortunately since how he's a forward, he's probably not suited as captain due to the distance from the contest, nor does he have enough runs on the board yet.

Jones, Viney, Gawn are the locks from this years group. Watts is a big chance.

If Tom McDonald signs on he'll stay in. He's a bit of an unusual leader but he's a hard worker and he's earned it.

Garland, Vince might not stay in it, but it's important to have senior players. Vince probably stays and Jetta might be a chance. 

If Garland is on the list next year (which is a near certainty) I'd have no problem with him being a leader even if he was set to play the year in the VFL. As long as he's comfortable leading from that situation there's nothing wrong with having a leadership group player as a depth player, as long as other leaders are making a difference in AFL games.

how can Garlo be  a leader when hell never get on the paddock ?

57 minutes ago, demon9 said:

I don't see Jones instruct the players or move them around like chess pieces like Hodge does. 

Jones is a lead-by-example type of captain and will just crack in, which is fine when everyone knows what to do, but with such a young team we need a captain who can educate, structure and organise. Pendlebury also does this really well.

I think Watts should be in the leadership group, and he understands structures and roles better than most. Unfortunately since how he's a forward, he's probably not suited as captain due to the distance from the contest, nor does he have enough runs on the board yet.

apparently as of Sunday he's everywhere !! 

It was interesting to listen to a miked up Shaw on the weekend

He really marshalls the GWS backline and continually coaches and instructs

and then he just does somethings that demonstrates how good he is and shows their youngsters.

I wonder if we can have some of that line leadership he displayed in our group. I have sat near the fence on numerous occasions and haven't heard anything quite like it form our player group

3 minutes ago, jackaub said:

It was interesting to listen to a miked up Shaw on the weekend

He really marshalls the GWS backline and continually coaches and instructs

and then he just does somethings that demonstrates how good he is and shows their youngsters.

I wonder if we can have some of that line leadership he displayed in our group. I have sat near the fence on numerous occasions and haven't heard anything quite like it form our player group

Shaw learnt from one of the best on-field Generals of recent times:  Nick Maxwell. 

One reason GWS is in the top 4 is because from day 1 they imported on-field Leadership: premiership players and ex captains, as playing coaches: Luke Power, Jr Mac, Cornes etc, and more recently:  Griffen, Mumford, Johnson, Shaw.  Nick Maxwell heads their leadership programs group. 

These guys have taught Callan Ward and Phil Davis who are now terrific on-field leaders in their own right.  Collectively all the on-field leaders are excellent mentors to their emerging leaders:  Coniglio, Smith, Shiel and Buntine.

We have terrific potential leaders but who do they have to learn from?  No offence to anyone but they don't have on-field leaders to learn because they didn't have on-field leaders to learn from etc. And the conundrum continues...

Until we get leaders from successful clubs with premiership experience we won't get to the top 4.  That is why I'm not at all enthused about the names being tossed around as incoming trades.  They might get us into the 8 but then what...?

We are similar to GWS when they started - bunch of young talent who need guidance.  Cross, Vince, Dawes, Lumumba have made some mentoring contributions but their leadership impact has been limited.  So it set me thinking about who could we get to give us this much needed on-field leadership... 

Stay with me now...Luke Hodge may not get a contract at the Hawks next year.  By all accounts he wants to play on.  I would be rapt to have him as our co-captain, with Jones, for a year or two - even if he can't play every game.  I believe Viney and Watts have the most football nouse in our team and they are showing they can stand up at critical times in games. 

So imagine how their nouse can be fine tuned by watching Hodge first hand and being taught by him!  A Crem dela crem tutor! 

Edited August 1, 20168 yr by Lucifer's Hero