My 3 word player analysis V Gold Coast

[nutbean 8,837]

1 hour ago, joeboy said:

Thank you for your condescending ' I quite like your 3 word analysis'.. I value your opinion highly

Not only am I condescending, but I am also a curmudgeon, prone to pedantry and worst of all  - a lickspittle  - that still doesn't make me wrong.

[joeboy 2,944]

2 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Not only am I condescending, but I am also a curmudgeon, prone to pedantry and worst of all  - a lickspittle  - that still doesn't make me wrong.

I'm even more impressed that you're able to utilize a thesaurus 

[ManDee 7,096]

I am constantly amazed by the number of possessions that Tyson gets. I miss many of them as he often shoots it out so quickly that I don't know who did it. I know some of these rushed possessions are wasted but he is a work in progress and getting the ball is the first part to becoming a great player. I don't think he is overrated.

[Little Richard 5,935]

7 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I am constantly amazed by the number of possessions that Tyson gets. I miss many of them as he often shoots it out so quickly that I don't know who did it. I know some of these rushed possessions are wasted but he is a work in progress and getting the ball is the first part to becoming a great player. I don't think he is overrated.

Some of the best hands in close that we have, no doubt about it. As you say, a lot of those vital possessions are missed.

[nutbean 8,837]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

I really enjoy your thread every week Joe.

However ignore those that disagree.

I have always seen your comments as your thoughts, 90% of the time I agree.

After all everything on Demonland is opinion.

Please never stop.

I agree 95% of the time and also enjoy the thread.

But come on, Old Dee - most things are an opinion but you want to be able to back it up with some sort of intellectual rigor don't you ? 

If the opinion is that Dom Tyson can turn the ball over - nobody is going to disagree. If the opinion is that Dom Tyson can sometimes lack awareness - nobody is going to disagree.

Lets draw the analogy with TMac - there is fierce debate on here as to his worth  - whether his turnovers outweigh his value to the team. A valid argument and one you can also have about Tyson ( and probably half a dozen other footballers that can cough the ball up) - but the three word analysis is a weekly judgement of one game and you judge each players game on its merit.

Dom Tyson has had games where his errors have outweighed his effectiveness but each game any player should be judged on that game not on a preconceived notion. Tyson has 31 touches, went at 80% efficiency . I watched the replay again to make sure I didn't miss anything - maybe four or five disposals didnt hit the mark - his hands were clean  - he rarely fumbled. He had one unawareness moment where he got pinged. He was clearly our best mid and acknowledged by all and sundry in the top 5 players on the ground. The sad part is  - we were joking at the game exactly what would be written about his game and it came to pass.

"everything on Demonland is opinion" - sorry - that's a cop out. There are some things that move from the realms of opinion to right or wrong. I happily debate with yourself and others on matters of opinion. I do tend to fire up when statements exit the land of considered opinion.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

17 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I am constantly amazed by the number of possessions that Tyson gets. I miss many of them as he often shoots it out so quickly that I don't know who did it. I know some of these rushed possessions are wasted but he is a work in progress and getting the ball is the first part to becoming a great player. I don't think he is overrated.

Matt Jones is another who racks up numbers that I don't see. (That may partly be because I sit on the wing so identifying who does what on the other wing can be hard to see). 

[nutbean 8,837]

24 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I am constantly amazed by the number of possessions that Tyson gets. I miss many of them as he often shoots it out so quickly that I don't know who did it. I know some of these rushed possessions are wasted but he is a work in progress and getting the ball is the first part to becoming a great player. I don't think he is overrated.

We bemoaned the Neeld years where we had one midfielder only who could get his hands on the ball (Jones) - now we have numerous options which is good thing. Tyson in form is a ball magnet - his hands are very good  - his foot skills can be a little iffy. He can also be a little slow to dispose and get caught. He gets as much contested ball as Jones and slightly less than Viney but has a superior disposal efficiency % than Viney, Jones or Vince ( I used three players who play in "heat").

Tyson does turn it over but I think he suffers from the same syndrome as Tmac - when he turns it over it can be under little pressure and looks diabolical. 

  

[old dee 23,254]

16 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I agree 95% of the time and also enjoy the thread.

But come on, Old Dee - most things are an opinion but you want to be able to back it up with some sort of intellectual rigor don't you ? 

If the opinion is that Dom Tyson can turn the ball over - nobody is going to disagree. If the opinion is that Dom Tyson can sometimes lack awareness - nobody is going to disagree.

Lets draw the analogy with TMac - there is fierce debate on here as to his worth  - whether his turnovers outweigh his value to the team. A valid argument and one you can also have about Tyson ( and probably half a dozen other footballers that can cough the ball up) - but the three word analysis is a weekly judgement of one game and you judge each players game on its merit.

Dom Tyson has had games where his errors have outweighed his effectiveness but each game any player should be judged on that game not on a preconceived notion. Tyson has 31 touches, went at 80% efficiency . I watched the replay again to make sure I didn't miss anything - maybe four or five disposals didnt hit the mark - his hands were clean  - he rarely fumbled. He had one unawareness moment where he got pinged. He was clearly our best mid and acknowledged by all and sundry in the top 5 players on the ground. The sad part is  - we were joking at the game exactly what would be written about his game and it came to pass.

"everything on Demonland is opinion" - sorry - that's a cop out. There are some things that move from the realms of opinion to right or wrong. I happily debate with yourself and others on matters of opinion. I do tend to fire up when statements exit the land of considered opinion.

Oh!

You are wound up about Tyson nutbean.

I will be short. I am not a big fan. IMO He plays a few very good games a year mixed in with a lot  average ones and a few poor ones.

He is sadly typical of too many on our list.

However his game on Sunday was one in the first category.

[mauriesy 6,906]

The people who disagree have the same right to respond as Joeboy does in the first place. It's called healthy discussion.

Joeboy is not really enhancing his reputation by getting all shirty about it.

[ArtificialWisdom 3,958]

16 hours ago, Scythe said:

Oh look, Tyson polled another eight coaches votes: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-01/aflca-votes-round-19

But you know, "continually butchered disposals". What would Roos and Eade know?

I think the biggest question here is not about Tyson it's which dumbass coach didnt give jack 5?? what else do you have to do to earn 5 votes!? Especially in a game when everyone was pretty [censored].. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

I really enjoy your thread every week Joe.

However ignore those that disagree.

I have always seen your comments as your thoughts, 90% of the time I agree.

After all everything on Demonland is opinion.

Please never stop.

While I agree with this, if you put your opinion out there then you should also expect, and accept, that others will disagree with it and voice that accordingly.  Ignoring those that disagree almost goes against what a forum is for - discussion.  If he thinks Tyson is overrated and his game on the weekend wasn't flash, then he has to expect the backlash and accept that others (including myself) believe he is wrong.  It is just his opinion, but at the same time that doesn't mean it isn't a wrong one.

[nutbean 8,837]

30 minutes ago, old dee said:

Oh!

You are wound up about Tyson nutbean.

I will be short. I am not a big fan. IMO He plays a few very good games a year mixed in with a lot  average ones and a few poor ones.

He is sadly typical of too many on our list.

However his game on Sunday was one in the first category.

There you go - healthy debate around the value of Tyson - all good.

However  - you critiqued his game on Sunday not based on your "I'm not a big fan" but rather on that one game.

(not so much wound up - but yeah, I will bite when faced with the screamingly obvious - that Sunday was a good Tyson game and all I get back is a critique of his whole career and he is overrated. This thread is about a report card from one game.)

As I said  - and I was not being condescending - 95% of the comments are close to the money in my opinion. Some we have differing opinions on and that' s all good but there is an obvious bent on Tyson and the same type of comment is made week on week irrespective of how he plays)  

[ArtificialWisdom 3,958]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Oh!

You are wound up about Tyson nutbean.

I will be short. I am not a big fan. IMO He plays a few very good games a year mixed in with a lot  average ones and a few poor ones.

He is sadly typical of too many on our list.

However his game on Sunday was one in the first category.

Tyson is a ballwinner and little more but that is his job. I think he will be a vital cog in a finals side. No he wont be the star but we have prospects like Viney, Brayshaw and Tracc that are more likely to be classified as stars. With those guys one day playing at their peak Tyson will rarely be tagged and with time and space he can be pretty damaging. Think Lewis mold, the consistant midfielder that gets a free ride while the stars taking the brunt of the attention.

His averge games are 25ish touches and a handfull of clearances and probably enough tackles. If he can produce that consistantly with the ocassional very good game in between that is more than enough. Would like to see 14/15 goals a year rather than the 8 he is on now but regardless you are underselling him I think. With his diabolical errors becoming rarer (while I admit still present) I think its time to start looking at him as a lock for the long term.

[hemingway 7,608]

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

I agree 95% of the time and also enjoy the thread.

But come on, Old Dee - most things are an opinion but you want to be able to back it up with some sort of intellectual rigor don't you ? 

If the opinion is that Dom Tyson can turn the ball over - nobody is going to disagree. If the opinion is that Dom Tyson can sometimes lack awareness - nobody is going to disagree.

Lets draw the analogy with TMac - there is fierce debate on here as to his worth  - whether his turnovers outweigh his value to the team. A valid argument and one you can also have about Tyson ( and probably half a dozen other footballers that can cough the ball up) - but the three word analysis is a weekly judgement of one game and you judge each players game on its merit.

Dom Tyson has had games where his errors have outweighed his effectiveness but each game any player should be judged on that game not on a preconceived notion. Tyson has 31 touches, went at 80% efficiency . I watched the replay again to make sure I didn't miss anything - maybe four or five disposals didnt hit the mark - his hands were clean  - he rarely fumbled. He had one unawareness moment where he got pinged. He was clearly our best mid and acknowledged by all and sundry in the top 5 players on the ground. The sad part is  - we were joking at the game exactly what would be written about his game and it came to pass.

"everything on Demonland is opinion" - sorry - that's a cop out. There are some things that move from the realms of opinion to right or wrong. I happily debate with yourself and others on matters of opinion. I do tend to fire up when statements exit the land of considered opinion.

I must remind myself not to reply to your posts Nut, as I do not think that I have sufficient intellectual rigor to debate with you. It is much easier to like or just agree. Its a bit like reading the Financial Review, I can only read when in the mood and when I think that I am more intelligent than I really am. Keep up the analysis and intellectual rigor Nut, I really appreciate your posts when I am in the mood.

[nutbean 8,837]

21 minutes ago, hemingway said:

I must remind myself not to reply to your posts Nut, as I do not think that I have sufficient intellectual rigor to debate with you. It is much easier to like or just agree. Its a bit like reading the Financial Review, I can only read when in the mood and when I think that I am more intelligent than I really am. Keep up the analysis and intellectual rigor Nut, I really appreciate your posts when I am in the mood.

I have been accused of being verbose - and I'll wear that. (also been accused of being argumentative and not letting go - sigh... that is probably fair as well)

Maybe intellectual rigor is probably the wrong word. 99% of opinions I let go because they are just that  - opinions with no right or no wrong. And whilst I may not agree with reasoning behind the opinion - a lot of the reasoning again tends to fall into the realms of opinion.

"Chris Dawes is an exceptional contested mark" - opinion or factually incorrect ? You have to draw the line somewhere.     

[ManDee 7,096]

14 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I have been accused of being verbose - and I'll wear that. (also been accused of being argumentative and not letting go - sigh... that is probably fair as well)

Maybe intellectual rigor is probably the wrong word. 99% of opinions I let go because they are just that  - opinions with no right or no wrong. And whilst I may not agree with reasoning behind the opinion - a lot of the reasoning again tends to fall into the realms of opinion.

"Chris Dawes is an exceptional contested mark" - opinion or factually incorrect ? You have to draw the line somewhere.     

"Chris Dawes is an exceptional contested mark"       How about there

 

Edit:- On reflection exceptional is probably right.

exceptionaladjective  1. unusual; not typical.

1.  

    

   .

Edited August 2, 2016 by ManDee

[jnrmac 19,480]

On 7/31/2016 at 4:45 PM, praha said:

N.Jones - Just didn't lead

Watch the last quarter again (if you can bear it). Jones was willing us across the line. He threw himself into the contest. May not have racked up the possession count but when there was a ball to be won he was fantasic. Very underrated performance

[jnrmac 19,480]

1 hour ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Tyson is a ballwinner and little more but that is his job. I think he will be a vital cog in a finals side. No he wont be the star but we have prospects like Viney, Brayshaw and Tracc that are more likely to be classified as stars. With those guys one day playing at their peak Tyson will rarely be tagged and with time and space he can be pretty damaging. Think Lewis mold, the consistant midfielder that gets a free ride while the stars taking the brunt of the attention.

His averge games are 25ish touches and a handfull of clearances and probably enough tackles. If he can produce that consistantly with the ocassional very good game in between that is more than enough. Would like to see 14/15 goals a year rather than the 8 he is on now but regardless you are underselling him I think. With his diabolical errors becoming rarer (while I admit still present) I think its time to start looking at him as a lock for the long term.

Tyson has the ability to get the ball in contested situations. We need ball winners. By and large he doesn't turn the ball over when he is under no pressure. He is a good long kick for goal.

I think the knock on him comes from his disposals in tight; gets caught too often or gives the ball away. Personally am happy to deal with that. It's bloody hard at AFL level to get the ball in a contest and all the disposals will likely be under pressure. Mistakes are easier to make. Jones and Viney suffer similar critcisms but some are too harsh here when players like Jones and Tyson are under extreme pressure most of the game.

It's mistakes under little pressure that drive me mad. TMac, Kent on the weekend. Stretch's OOF. And the ones that do it continually are the ones we need to weed out or work out if the positives outweight the negatives.

[old dee 23,254]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

While I agree with this, if you put your opinion out there then you should also expect, and accept, that others will disagree with it and voice that accordingly.  Ignoring those that disagree almost goes against what a forum is for - discussion.  If he thinks Tyson is overrated and his game on the weekend wasn't flash, then he has to expect the backlash and accept that others (including myself) believe he is wrong.  It is just his opinion, but at the same time that doesn't mean it isn't a wrong one.

Don't disagree Wiseblood.

I was just encouraging him to continue.

If I was doing it ( many would thank god you are not ) I would just put it out and say nothing else which I think he does most weeks. Whoever did this would be challenged by people who disagree. As you say it is discussion site. 

The only thing I object to are those that choose to be obnoxious in their comments.

[nutbean 8,837]

26 minutes ago, old dee said:

Don't disagree Wiseblood.

I was just encouraging him to continue.

If I was doing it ( many would thank god you are not ) I would just put it out and say nothing else which I think he does most weeks. Whoever did this would be challenged by people who disagree. As you say it is discussion site. 

The only thing I object to are those that choose to be obnoxious in their comments.

get stuffed old dee

 

(small attempt at humor)

Edited August 2, 2016 by nutbean

[old dee 23,254]

9 minutes ago, nutbean said:

get stuffed old dee

 

(small attempt at humor)

Woe nutbean I was not suggesting you were obnoxious in your comments . Far from it I actually consider you be the reverse.

my comment was a general one. If you think I did I apologise unreservedly. 

[nutbean 8,837]

11 minutes ago, old dee said:

Woe nutbean I was not suggesting you were obnoxious in your comments . Far from it I actually consider you be the reverse.

my comment was a general one. If you think I did I apologise unreservedly. 

see what i wrote down the bottom of my post. (now enlarged)

I said "small attempt at humor" - i may change that to "failed attempt at humor".

Love you old dee XX

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

14 minutes ago, nutbean said:

see what i wrote down the bottom of my post. (now enlarged)

I said "small attempt at humor" - i may change that to "failed attempt at humor".

Love you old dee XX

Now this thread is just getting creepy.

[old dee 23,254]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Now this thread is just getting creepy.

What do you mean "getting"

[Gator 16,921]

On 31/07/2016 at 10:23 PM, Adzman said:

Watts- better than niknat?

He was good today, so good that even Sen were commenting that they would take Watts over niknat if the draft were today. How times havechanged.d

That's a bit misleading. 

One was Schwarz, who has never rated Naitanui and the other was Andy Maher, who has said it a couple of times this year. 

I don't consider their comments representative of the broader "SEN" community".