Should the AFL lead on Social Issues

[Diamond_Jim 12,406]

This is a topic I have thought about for some time. Politics and Sport are mixed and have been since at least the days of the anti apartheid movement. It is far too late to unscramble that egg and I do not think we need to try.

That being said is the AFL trying to fix too many of society's ills and in the course of so doing risks turning what should be serious debates into one off "themed rounds." Dare I say it but I think the Anzac round is detracting from what is a perhaps one of our most sacred traditions and that is a remembrance of war by the remembrance of an ignominious defeat.

Anyway what prompted me to post is another article in the Australian version of the Guardian which touches on this and other subjects. Not sure if I agree that the AFL taking up these issues is leading to a disengagement by fans but perhaps we are becoming tired of another week and another cause. This used to be known as "charity fatigue" or similar.

Here is the article and as usual the comments by readers are well worth a look.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/30/inside-50-the-winter-of-afl-discontent-may-not-be-too-far-away

[stuie 7,374]

16 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

That being said is the AFL trying to fix too many of society's ills and in the course of so doing risks turning what should be serious debates into one off "themed rounds." Dare I say it but I think the Anzac round is detracting from what is a perhaps one of our most sacred traditions and that is a remembrance of war by the remembrance of an ignominious defeat.

I hate Essendon, and I mean hate.

BUT, without having any kind of stats to back it up, the general consensus I've heard is that the "ANZAC Game" has done more to raise awareness about the ANZACs than anything else before it. If you look at what a huge event the remembrance services are, along with the thousands who now make the trip to Turkey, it does appear like the interest of the general public has never been greater.

As for the main gist of your topic, I think there's a pretty broad discussion to be had around the growing feeling of "political correctness gone mad" and the rise of the right wing that would go hand in hand with it. We're in a transitional phase as a "Western" culture where things are getting just a bit too complicated for those that yearn for the "simpler times" of men earning the crust, women doing the housework, sexism, racism, homophobia and many more outdated aspects of society that kept everything nice and black and white for those who were either too lazy or unwilling to accept anything other than how it's been done before or that things aren't always as clean cut as they would like.

Football is a microcosm of society, so you can clearly see this transition in human form when comparing listening to someone like Sam Newman to someone like Jimmy Bartel.

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by stuie

[Sir Why You Little 36,774]

They certainly didn't handle the Essendrug Saga well at all so i wish the AFL would just stick to putting on games of footy

But it won't happen. The industry is now too big. 

I heard the other day that many food outlets at Etihad don't accept cash for food purchases. 

These sort of decisions could kill crowd numbers. 

The Ivory Tower of AFL HQ is alive and well

[stuie 7,374]

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

They certainly didn't handle the Essendrug Saga well at all so i wish the AFL would just stick to putting on games of footy

But it won't happen. The industry is now too big. 

I heard the other day that many food outlets at Etihad don't accept cash for food purchases. 

These sort of decisions could kill crowd numbers. 

The Ivory Tower of AFL HQ is alive and well

None of these things are related to each other or related to the point of the OP.

Bizarre rant.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,774]

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

None of these things are related to each other or related to the point of the OP.

Bizarre rant.

 

AFL controlling everything could easily lead to fan disinchantment on many levels, including Themed Rounds which happen too often now.

[stuie 7,374]

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

AFL controlling everything could easily lead to fan disinchantment on many levels, including Themed Rounds which happen too often now.

Controlling everything? They run the game, of course they control everything. What would you prefer? Chaos?

What have the non-cash vendors got to do with the "ivory towers" and how will that kill crowd numbers when we're in an increasingly cash-less system based society?

And what do any of those things have to do with the AFL leading on social issues?

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by stuie

[rjay 24,689]

Personally I would like to see them stay right away from the non performance enhancing drugs issue. Their 3 strikes policy doesn't work on any level and just causes more problems than it solves.

If a player gets caught up in it provide all the assistance you can but don't try and police it. The police can't do it, why do the AFL think they can.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

SWYL. maybe the AFL could get involved with providing support to those who get their heads done in while posting on online footy forums.

[Diamond_Jim 12,406]

Let me try and explain my comment regarding the Anzac round taking away from the central theme of remembrance.

I have always been very proud of the way Australia remembers its War dead and other than our disrespect of Vietnam veterans (which is now being remedied) the men and women who fought in those wars.

That pride has been based not only on natural appreciation and thanks which we share with all other countries in respect of their war dead but also because in "celebrating" that memory we are one of only a few countries to mark it by remembrance of a defeat and thus highlighting the inherent futility of war.

It is that second aspect that we are endangering (perhaps only in my mind) by celebrating the memory with a game that is all about winning and losing. Perhaps also we are in danger of thinking that there are such things as winnable wars.

Sorry if the point is off football but I just wanted to use it as an example of how all pervasive the AFL can become.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

5 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Let me try and explain my comment regarding the Anzac round taking away from the central theme of remembrance.

I have always been very proud of the way Australia remembers its War dead and other than our disrespect of Vietnam veterans (which is now being remedied) the men and women who fought in those wars.

That pride has been based not only on natural appreciation and thanks which we share with all other countries in respect of their war dead but also because in "celebrating" that memory we are one of only a few countries to mark it by remembrance of a defeat and thus highlighting the inherent futility of war.

It is that second aspect that we are endangering (perhaps only in my mind) by celebrating the memory with a game that is all about winning and losing. Perhaps also we are in danger of thinking that there are such things as winnable wars.

Sorry if the point is off football but I just wanted to use it as an example of how all pervasive the AFL can become.

A boy cries out for his mumma, before he does for his home.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I'd be all for the AFL getting involved in social issues if it wasn't predominantly lip service to garner ratings.

Also if they did it competently. Their management on social issues is a joke, Gill especially. If they gave it their all then fine, but they do it all in half measures and end up looking like fools.

If they had better leadership and administration, go for it, advocate away AFL! But they don't, and they just make things worse.

Titus skewered it with this article - http://titusoreily.com/afl-excited-set-purely-symbolic-example/

 

[stuie 7,374]

18 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Let me try and explain my comment regarding the Anzac round taking away from the central theme of remembrance.

I have always been very proud of the way Australia remembers its War dead and other than our disrespect of Vietnam veterans (which is now being remedied) the men and women who fought in those wars.

That pride has been based not only on natural appreciation and thanks which we share with all other countries in respect of their war dead but also because in "celebrating" that memory we are one of only a few countries to mark it by remembrance of a defeat and thus highlighting the inherent futility of war.

It is that second aspect that we are endangering (perhaps only in my mind) by celebrating the memory with a game that is all about winning and losing. Perhaps also we are in danger of thinking that there are such things as winnable wars.

Sorry if the point is off football but I just wanted to use it as an example of how all pervasive the AFL can become.

I don't see the "winning" part of the game regarded as more important than the "ANZAC Spirit", with things like mateship, sacrifice and team work being the aspects deemed worthy of repeated mention and highlighting as opposed to winning, as such.

 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

I don't see the "winning" part of the game regarded as more important than the "ANZAC Spirit", with things like mateship, sacrifice and team work being the aspects deemed worthy of repeated mention and highlighting as opposed to winning, as such.

 

Then we need to ask, is the Essendon Football Club really reflective of these values?

Nope.

This is where the AFL needs to walk the walk. The EFC should have been replaced with someone else who embodies more of the 'ANZAC Spirit'. Like I said, if you're gonna do it, do it right. And in this case, doing it right means making a big statement and replacing Essendon. Probably to the AFL's financial detriment though, so they won't do it.

You can't pledge yourself to high minded ethics and then squib it when those ethics conflict with your ability to generate income. The AFL is conflicted, and until they grow some balls they should stop pretending to be the defenders of social issues and friend to the downtrodden. Right now they are only those things when suits them.

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, Choke said:

Then we need to ask, is the Essendon Football Club really reflective of these values?

Nope.

This is where the AFL needs to walk the walk. The EFC should have been replaced with someone else who embodies more of the 'ANZAC Spirit'. Like I said, if you're gonna do it, do it right. And in this case, doing it right means making a big statement and replacing Essendon. Probably to the AFL's financial detriment though, so they won't do it.

You can't pledge yourself to high minded ethics and then squib it when those ethics conflict with your ability to generate income. The AFL is conflicted, and until they grow some balls they should stop pretending to be the defenders of social issues and friend to the downtrodden. Right now they are only those things when suits them.

Totally agree. Can't see it happening as they've been Essendon apologists the whole time, but you're absolutely right.

 

[radar 1,865]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

They certainly didn't handle the Essendrug Saga well at all so i wish the AFL would just stick to putting on games of footy

But it won't happen. The industry is now too big. 

I heard the other day that many food outlets at Etihad don't accept cash for food purchases. 

These sort of decisions could kill crowd numbers. 

The Ivory Tower of AFL HQ is alive and well

 

54 minutes ago, stuie said:

Controlling everything? They run the game, of course they control everything. What would you prefer? Chaos?

What have the non-cash vendors got to do with the "ivory towers" and how will that kill crowd numbers when we're in an increasingly cash-less system based society?

And what do any of those things have to do with the AFL leading on social issues?

 

Ever thought of taking a thermos and couple of sandwiches. I can go 10 years not spend a zack at footy. 

[radar 1,865]

Was gunna say AFL should stick to what it knows best. 

Not sure they even do that now. 

Good start would be turn off Friggin speakers. 

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

1 minute ago, radar said:

 

Ever thought of taking a thermos and couple of sandwiches. I can go 10 years not spend a zack at footy. 

I dropped my thermos and broke it, when I tripped over my tartan knee rug

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, radar said:

 

Ever thought of taking a thermos and couple of sandwiches. I can go 10 years not spend a zack at footy. 

I stand when I go to the footy, and I once stood next to a bloke who must have been in his 80s and was an absolute genius with his footy nourishment setup....

 

 

[Guest]

Personally, I am very happy that the AFL has been taking a stance on social issues. Long overdue.

Too long has Aussie Rules football been associated with racism and gender inequality. You just need to look at the progress that has been made:

- I remember when I was growing up, it would be entirely normal for members of the crowd to racially abuse indigenous players, make derogatory comments regarding sexuality etc. This still happens occasionally, but the fact that these actions are now being reported by other members of the crowd shows that progress is being made. 

- The gender imbalance in the football industry has always been apparent, but more women being employed in the field and the creation of the womens league has encouraged involvement for women young and old across the country. The AFL is still far from perfect in this regard (the AFL media in particular), but again, progress is being made. 

Sport has the ability to normalise behaviour and is so influential in the shaping of societal views; I'm glad that influence is now being used to encourage equality and acceptance.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Scythe

[Guest]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

I hate Essendon, and I mean hate.

BUT, without having any kind of stats to back it up, the general consensus I've heard is that the "ANZAC Game" has done more to raise awareness about the ANZACs than anything else before it. If you look at what a huge event the remembrance services are, along with the thousands who now make the trip to Turkey, it does appear like the interest of the general public has never been greater.

As for the main gist of your topic, I think there's a pretty broad discussion to be had around the growing feeling of "political correctness gone mad" and the rise of the right wing that would go hand in hand with it. We're in a transitional phase as a "Western" culture where things are getting just a bit too complicated for those that yearn for the "simpler times" of men earning the crust, women doing the housework, sexism, racism, homophobia and many more outdated aspects of society that kept everything nice and black and white for those who were either too lazy or unwilling to accept anything other than how it's been done before or that things aren't always as clean cut as they would like.

Football is a microcosm of society, so you can clearly see this transition in human form when comparing listening to someone like Sam Newman to someone like Jimmy Bartel.

 

Good post.

[Little Goffy 14,178]

If the AFL wants to thrive, it needs to be clear to everyone that they are welcome.

Gone (or let's say 'hopefully almost gone') are the days when a core of self-important boof-heads can strut around acting like nobody matters but them, spitting on opposition supporters, commenting obnoxiously on every pair of breasts that went past, throwing around foul-mouthed racial abuse, and all that wonderful old-time traditional good old days rubbish.

Or maybe it is more accurate to say 'gone are the days when you can do these things, and still have all the people you insult turn up'. People have other things to do with their weekend and their money, and even the old low-importance types like women, Aboriginal people and homosexuals (or *****, **** and ******* as they were known back in the day, of course) have enough autonomy now to just say "No, I'm not joining in, it's not fun for me, only for you".

So, long story short, the AFL must demonstrate that it is reasonably welcoming now and is improving over time.

As for taking a 'lead' on social issues, I'm not sure the AFL is an appropriate body to do that. Partly because the executive aren't very bright and are mostly marketing/branding types who should generally be kept away from social issues, but mostly for the same reason as above - even misogynists, homophobes, racists and general-purpose 4rsewipes should be able to attend an AFL game without feeling unwelcome, as long as they keep their foul attitudes to themselves. 

There's a balance to be struck.

[hemingway 7,615]

They do not have the credentials or capacity to "lead" on social issues. They should be in step with social changes and make changes where compatible with the game and not just change for change sake (or to be seen to be doing something). 

[Biffen 12,940]

Maybe Wayne Carey and Sam Newman as Ambassadors to women.

Gary Ablett Snr as spokesman for mental health and drugs.

 

 

[Fork 'em 6,975]

2 hours ago, Choke said:

Then we need to ask, is the Essendon Football Club really reflective of these values?

Nope.

This is where the AFL needs to walk the walk. The EFC should have been replaced with someone else who embodies more of the 'ANZAC Spirit'. Like I said, if you're gonna do it, do it right. And in this case, doing it right means making a big statement and replacing Essendon. Probably to the AFL's financial detriment though, so they won't do it.

You can't pledge yourself to high minded ethics and then squib it when those ethics conflict with your ability to generate income. The AFL is conflicted, and until they grow some balls they should stop pretending to be the defenders of social issues and friend to the downtrodden. Right now they are only those things when suits them.

I hate Essendon as much as anyone but this article referring to collingwoods right to ANZAC day is worth a read.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2014/04/22/magpies-deserve-play-anzac-day/

[beelzebub 23,254]

37 minutes ago, hemingway said:

They do not have the credentials or capacity to "lead" on social issues. They should be in step with social changes and make changes where compatible with the game and not just change for change sake (or to be seen to be doing something). 

Thats right Ernest. They struggle to run their own game let alone tell others how to do run theirs