Eddie and Caro

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

48 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone.... or something

Verily, it is written ... let he who who is without conflict of interest drown the first AFL accredited journalist. (I think that's right. It's all in Deuteronomy 22)

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes back in the '70's as a kid Stuie without bursting into tears. 

Be it right or wrong You had to have thick skin back then. 

It was the way Australia was. 

Not like this over governed Nanny State we live in now...

See point 1 of the people I think are more likely to think this way.

Another line from the 70's for you SWYL, 'the times they are a changin'. Think about it for a bit. 

[jnrmac 20,055]

23 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

This is a 3Aw transcript:

Dwayne Russell: We’d have to sell tickets for those who want to push you, Caro, I reckon.

Caroline Wilson: That’s very funny Dwayne. Hysterical.

Tony Shaw: And hold her under Dwayne.

Caroline Wilson: Oh, boys.

Caroline didn't laugh in a "I am amused" way. It was totally derisionary.  As soon as the guys realised that, they stopped. 

Compare to MMM comments here: http://erinriley.com.au/archives/2912

They did not stop.  In fact Eddie added: "I reckon we could charge ten thousand for everyone to stand around the outside and bomb her". That sounds positively medieval to me.

Bomb Her!  Does that not sound violent to you?  Not sure what he thought the bombs would be: rocks, ice, water bombs, sticks?  They all hurt! 

It is not ok to 'bomb' or hurt anyone with anything at anytime.  Eddie was completely out of line.

This part is a reference to bombing as in jumping in the water and making a big splash. You are talking about weapons?

[Satyriconhome 10,728]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

See point 1 of the people I think are more likely to think this way.

Another line from the 70's for you SWYL, 'the times they are a changin'. Think about it for a bit. 

Nah this is for SWYL

 

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.

Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah?

Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah.

Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?

MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

GC: A cup ' COLD tea.

EI: Without milk or sugar.

TG: OR tea!

MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.

EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness."

EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.

GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!

MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.

EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.

GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!

TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

MP: Cardboard box?

TG: Aye.

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..  copyright the Pythons

 

 

(Think he should have tried growing up in Liverpool in the 50's to 70's)

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

It's not a competition. Just because violence against women happens it doesn't mean violence against men doesn't. But the OVERWHELMING facts, stats and studies indicate women are the victims at a much higher rate than men.

 

Never said it was a competition stuie,  just that i don't beleive the stats as even the experts agree that male victims are far more under represented than women (who are also under represented). I also said I was happy to focus on women for know but that the discussion has to evolve at some point to include all victims. Really can't see your problem here stuie. 

[Gator 17,279]

Unless you take offence to the boys' club laughs you'll be hung drawn and quartered by the professional offence takers that reside here.  You really are on a hiding to nothing, which is why there's little point raising your head.  Best move on to the next topic...

 You'll be accused of condoning or worse encouraging violence towards women, of being a relic from the 1950's, of not understanding what is acceptable in modern society, of showing your true colours, and being told by others that they hope there are no women in your life.  But in reality, the criticism of what took place is overblown.

Why I'm most bemused is that I don't think of Wilson first and foremost as female, I think of her as a journalist.  She's a professional, who happens to be female, which is irrelevant to me in her position as head football writer at The Age.  Clearly no right-minded logical thinking person's first thoughts would be that men were sitting around encouraging domestic violence.  If that was your first thought you really lack common sense or are liberal with the truth.  these remarks could have been said about Mark Robinson, Purple, Ralph or any other journalist.  And I dare say your first thoughts wouldn't have been about domestic violence or any other kind of violence (although some might pretend otherwise).

It's a discredit to Wilson and other professional females that she's being treated differently because of her gender.

Those shouting the loudest are usually the first to condemn stereotypical attitudes towards women, yet this is exactly what you're doing in this instance.  And the bows being drawn are over the top.  It will get to the point where some won't be able to rationalise different situations without first leaping to illogical conclusions.  

Anyway, I'll let the snide remarks and those holier than thou continue.

[Satyriconhome 10,728]

4 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Unless you take offence to the boys' club laughs you'll be hung drawn and quartered by the professional offence takers that reside here.  You really are on a hiding to nothing, which is why there's little point raising your head.  Best move on to the next topic...

 You'll be accused of condoning or worse encouraging violence towards women, of being a relic from the 1950's, of not understanding what is acceptable in modern society, of showing your true colours, and being told by others that they hope there are no women in your life.  But in reality, the criticism of what took place is overblown.

Why I'm most bemused is that I don't think of Wilson first and foremost as female, I think of her as a journalist.  She's a professional, who happens to be female, which is irrelevant to me in her position as head football writer at The Age.  Clearly no right-minded logical thinking person's first thoughts would be that men were sitting around encouraging domestic violence.  If that was your first thought you really lack common sense or are liberal with the truth.  these remarks could have been said about Mark Robinson, Purple, Ralph or any other journalist.  And I dare say your first thoughts wouldn't have been about domestic violence or any other kind of violence (although some might pretend otherwise).

It's a discredit to Wilson and other professional females that she's being treated differently because of her gender.

Those shouting the loudest are usually the first to condemn stereotypical attitudes towards women, yet this is exactly what you're doing in this instance.  And the bows being drawn are over the top.  It will get to the point where some won't be able to rationalise different situations without first leaping to illogical conclusions.  

Anyway, I'll let the snide remarks and those holier than thou continue.

Sorry chap, but both those things contribute to violence against women, violence against women (or men) doesn't have to be physical

Edited June 20, 2016 by Satyriconhome
bloody smarfpheen

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Unless you take offence to the boys' club laughs you'll be hung drawn and quartered by the professional offence takers that reside here.  You really are on a hiding to nothing, which is why there's little point raising your head.  Best move on to the next topic...

 You'll be accused of condoning or worse encouraging violence towards women, of being a relic from the 1950's, of not understanding what is acceptable in modern society, of showing your true colours, and being told by others that they hope there are no women in your life.  But in reality, the criticism of what took place is overblown.

Why I'm most bemused is that I don't think of Wilson first and foremost as female, I think of her as a journalist.  She's a professional, who happens to be female, which is irrelevant to me in her position as head football writer at The Age.  Clearly no right-minded logical thinking person's first thoughts would be that men were sitting around encouraging domestic violence.  If that was your first thought you really lack common sense or are liberal with the truth.  these remarks could have been said about Mark Robinson, Purple, Ralph or any other journalist.  And I dare say your first thoughts wouldn't have been about domestic violence or any other kind of violence (although some might pretend otherwise).

It's a discredit to Wilson and other professional females that she's being treated differently because of her gender.

Those shouting the loudest are usually the first to condemn stereotypical attitudes towards women, yet this is exactly what you're doing in this instance.  And the bows being drawn are over the top.  It will get to the point where some won't be able to rationalise different situations without first leaping to illogical conclusions.  

Anyway, I'll let the snide remarks and those holier than thou continue.

The most progressive statement in the whole thread. Well done,  somebody gets it! 

[Emerald 1,744]

34 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I clearly recall a comment you made that got you a deservedly long holiday.

It involved Caro and sodomy.

Do not deny it.

The snitch role is yours to keep.

I stand by my recollection although your comment was rightly deleted.

It was in the thread involving Caro during the tanking saga.

Get off your horse on this one buddy.

This is a fact and others will remember it as another sterling example of your hypocrisy.

 

 

Biff knows what Stuie did last summer.

 

[rjay 24,887]

14 minutes ago, Chris said:

See point 1 of the people I think are more likely to think this way.

Another line from the 70's for you SWYL, 'the times they are a changin'. Think about it for a bit. 

Probably the 60's 'Chris'...

[Satyriconhome 10,728]

2 minutes ago, Jesse Christ said:

The most progressive statement in the whole thread. Well done,  somebody gets it! 

Oh dear, regressive I think is the word you are looking for, you just don't get it do you

[Bigred 494]

I am stunned that Eddie still doesnt get it.

His comments were sexist and obscene and definitely part of the problem

Caroline Wilson says so, and as the recipient her view is all that matters

Phil Cleary on ABC today made it very clear... this behaviour of 'the boys club' remains part of the problem .... and we still have a long way tp go and a lot of learning to come. 

AFL's response was OK but very soft... 

Listening to Dermie on SEN 'explain things .... a la 'it was just a joke' made me feel unwell.

 

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

Actually no. The weakest type of person sends a pm to another poster telling them in a fit of anger to "Go kill yourself!". That would be you stuie.

In response to said poster sending constant harassing personal emails about my family...

Yeah, let's not bring context in at all hey?

 

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

Oh dear, regressive I think is the word you are looking for, you just don't get it do you

No,  I actually liked pro dee's comments and I agree with them.  

[jumbo returns 6,739]

12 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Unless you take offence to the boys' club laughs you'll be hung drawn and quartered by the professional offence takers that reside here.  You really are on a hiding to nothing, which is why there's little point raising your head.  Best move on to the next topic...

 You'll be accused of condoning or worse encouraging violence towards women, of being a relic from the 1950's, of not understanding what is acceptable in modern society, of showing your true colours, and being told by others that they hope there are no women in your life.  But in reality, the criticism of what took place is overblown.

Why I'm most bemused is that I don't think of Wilson first and foremost as female, I think of her as a journalist.  She's a professional, who happens to be female, which is irrelevant to me in her position as head football writer at The Age.  Clearly no right-minded logical thinking person's first thoughts would be that men were sitting around encouraging domestic violence.  If that was your first thought you really lack common sense or are liberal with the truth.  these remarks could have been said about Mark Robinson, Purple, Ralph or any other journalist.  And I dare say your first thoughts wouldn't have been about domestic violence or any other kind of violence (although some might pretend otherwise).

It's a discredit to Wilson and other professional females that she's being treated differently because of her gender.

Those shouting the loudest are usually the first to condemn stereotypical attitudes towards women, yet this is exactly what you're doing in this instance.  And the bows being drawn are over the top.  It will get to the point where some won't be able to rationalise different situations without first leaping to illogical conclusions.  

Anyway, I'll let the snide remarks and those holier than thou continue.

Stick to footy - you have no idea how to behave in a contemporary society.

Fmd.

[stuie 7,374]

43 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I clearly recall a comment you made that got you a deservedly long holiday.

It involved Caro and sodomy.

Do not deny it.

The snitch role is yours to keep.

I stand by my recollection although your comment was rightly deleted.

It was in the thread involving Caro during the tanking saga.

Get off your horse on this one buddy.

This is a fact and others will remember it as another sterling example of your hypocrisy.

Right, so firstly you're text booking "snitching" here.

Secondly, funny how your recollection is fading somewhat now... As I stated earlier, I posted an inappropriate rumour, which is completely different to posting something "I would do to her" as you stated.

Thirdly, your hazy drunk recollections about a poster you have constantly followed around making personal comments about don't really hold a lot of weight.

 

[Satyriconhome 10,728]

3 minutes ago, Jesse Christ said:

No,  I actually liked pro dee's comments and I agree with them.  

Then you don't get the issue about violence towards women, until we eradicate the 'boys club' mentality not only in the footy world, but everywhere, (I don't think we ever will) then the problem will remain

 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[Chris 2,892]

9 minutes ago, rjay said:

Probably the 60's 'Chris'...

Whoops, I wasnt alive but always associate it with an early 70's hippy mantra (taken from Dylans song. 

Just looked it up and it mid 60's. It must have been a great time to live and make the world change around you into the better world you want it to be. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Chris

[greenmachine 21]

slow news week this is such crap imo, he should not of said it but if caro was a bloke no one would blink twice

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I've listened to both ... and you really need to listen rather than read to get the full picture ... and the tenor of the two discussions was totally different.

On 3AWful they had just been talking to Neil Daniher and they were all mushy from talking to the great man (and rightfully so) but then Tony Shaw chipped in with his comment about holding her under .... and from the groans and sudden intake of breaths, it was clear they all realised, every one of them, that they were very very close to a line, probably over it. And no-one wanted to go there. (Shaw was very contrite talking it over this morning on the radio.)

Whereas on scuMMM, Eddie managed to turn the focus to someone who was not even present, but was obviously on his mind, and his motley gang clearly all thought it was magnificent idea, and piled on gleefully. It was nasty.

I'm not here to defend Caro, Tony Shaw, Dwayne Russell (all of whom I have nitpicky issues with). (Disclosure: I am quite happy to attack McGuire!) But I do think people should be arguing from a position of strength, ie knowing the facts.

Listen for yourselves.

AW: https://audioboom.com/boos/4687565-3aw-monday-football-pre-game-coverage-june-13-2016 (from about the 37 min mark)

MMM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4ueYL3rpot0

 

TL;DNR: AW: Oops, shouldn't have said that; MMM: ha ha ha let's get stuck into Caro!!!

[jnrmac 20,055]

5 minutes ago, Bigred said:

I am stunned that Eddie still doesnt get it.

His comments were sexist and obscene and definitely part of the problem

Caroline Wilson says so, and as the recipient her view is all that matters

Phil Cleary on ABC today made it very clear... this behaviour of 'the boys club' remains part of the problem .... and we still have a long way tp go and a lot of learning to come. 

AFL's response was OK but very soft... 

Listening to Dermie on SEN 'explain things .... a la 'it was just a joke' made me feel unwell.

 

This is where the problems start...

 

 

[Moonshadow 17,675]

59 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

Misogyny is a hatred of women. All McGuire's comments revealed was that he disliked Wilson, not that he disliked her because she was a woman. The fact that you go on in your post to say he wouldn't make the same comments about females in his own family shows that McGuire doesn't hate women and is not in fact a misogynist. I think that falsely accusing people of misogyny, sexism, racism and homophobia is almost as bad as those things themselves. So I would advise you to be more accurate in future.

All I want is a single persuasive argument that off-colour humour has any substantive impact on levels of domestic violence. In 8 pages of discussion no-one has been able to provide me with that. Violence against women is a serious issue and such a comprehensive misdiagnosis of the problem means that the problem will remain. It is much easier to bring down a public figure like McGuire for an unpopular comment than to do the hard work of actually figuring out how we can fix this problem. But we owe it to the victims of domestic violence to do just that. We must do better.  

The worst form of misogyny is to kill a woman in hate. To make a vitriolic joke (or what you call "off colour humour") about a group of men violently killing a woman is casual misogyny against that woman. It's more than just dislike. If he simply disliked her he might've said he wanted to be the person to push her down the slide.

Have you read about the horrible gang rape of a 14yo in Geelong by a group of brothers last year who joked about it during and afterwards? When asked how old she was they joked they would need to buy her some new Dora the Explorer undies. An extreme and heinous case yes, and absolutely no where near what Team Eddie said, but disrespect towards women breeds hate, whether it's against one woman or all, even if it's wrapped up as a joke.

There's a link on my reply Ricky that might inform you a bit further about the link between disrespect for women and domestic violence. Also, there was an informative YouTube clip someone posted on p1 or 2 of this thread. I would advise you to become informed before you compare me to being guilty of "misogyny, sexism, racism and homophobia".

If you still need a "persuasive argument", percentages or "teasing out of the dynamic" to convince you, I respectfully suggest it will never happen.

However I fully agree with your last sentence.

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Moonshadow

[Sir Why You Little 36,982]

21 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Nah this is for SWYL

 

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.

Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah?

Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah.

Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?

MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

GC: A cup ' COLD tea.

EI: Without milk or sugar.

TG: OR tea!

MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.

EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness."

EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.

GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!

MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.

EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.

GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!

TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

MP: Cardboard box?

TG: Aye.

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..  copyright the Pythons

 

 

(Think he should have tried growing up in Liverpool in the 50's to 70's)

Thanks for the laugh

The Pythons covered all topics

[Sir Why You Little 36,982]

28 minutes ago, Chris said:

See point 1 of the people I think are more likely to think this way.

Another line from the 70's for you SWYL, 'the times they are a changin'. Think about it for a bit. 

Great song written in 1962 mate

when things were really changing before our lives were ruled by banks, food chains & lawyers

 

[Gator 17,279]

11 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Stick to footy - you have no idea how to behave in a contemporary society.

Fmd.

I never take notice of people that can't articulate a position, but instead resort to insults.  Comments in poor taste to a senior journalist don't represent "violence to women" and nor are they representative of me because I hold a view as to their nature.

I'll let you to stick to snide remarks, because you know nothing about football. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by ProDee