23 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It's irrelevant but you agree with me!

that's good Doctor G

Hunter would approve of that logic. 

More players like Bernie Vince. He was an inspired get, but he can't do it alone. 

Even our Captain needs guidance because he has never been near the top. 

You can't pot the club for not bringing in experience or bringing in the "wrong kind" of experience if you can't even identify players we should be targeting. The club can only go after players that are available. Hodge and Selwood don't grow on trees. We tried Dangerfield and (allegedly) Parker and Kennedy, you can only get those who want to come.

Also I'd argue most of these "experienced leaders" are home grown talents. Not many move clubs without extenuating circumstances  (like Dangerfield). We've drafted a number who should get there (Hogan, Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) but they need time to mature. They'll come from within.

And yes, I agree with the premise that it would be good to import experienced top tier leadership. But unless they are available it's irrelevant. That ain't Gonzo logic, that's just the way it is Bub.

Mahalo.

14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You can't pot the club for not bringing in experience or bringing in the "wrong kind" of experience if you can't even identify players we should be targeting. The club can only go after players that are available. Hodge and Selwood don't grow on trees. We tried Dangerfield and (allegedly) Parker and Kennedy, you can only get those who want to come.

Also I'd argue most of these "experienced leaders" are home grown talents. Not many move clubs without extenuating circumstances  (like Dangerfield). We've drafted a number who should get there (Hogan, Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) but they need time to mature. They'll come from within.

And yes, I agree with the premise that it would be good to import experienced top tier leadership. But unless they are available it's irrelevant. That ain't Gonzo logic, that's just the way it is Bub.

Mahalo.

Thus the cycle will continue.....

On 6/22/2016 at 8:03 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

Thus the cycle will continue.....

I agree with you SWYL i think we desperately need to bring in real leader who has tasted success and is still good enough to contribute. 

Luke Hodge is rumored to be the one the Hawks will move on at years end, could a one year deal with an extra year as an assistant coach convince him to play on for one more? 

Nathan Jones and our young leaders would learn a huge amount just having him in the club, he would be worth it even if he only played 10-15 games and mentored our players outside of that. 

I really like our young list, and i think Nathan Jones is definitely the right person to be captain but he hasn't tasted success, we're currently relying on Dawes and Lumumba to be that finals guide and imo neither are certain best 22 players.

If we win all of Gold Coast, St Kilda, Carlton, Port and Fremantle, and finish with 11 wins, that to me will be a great result.

We won't, though, so I'd like to see us win one of the four much harder games - Adelaide, Hawthorn, West Coast, Geelong. I think our best chance is the Adelaide game, particularly if North roughs the up like they did (or tried to) with Hawthorn. 

If we win 3 or 4 of the 5 "easier" ones and we win 1 of the 4 "harder" ones, I'll be happy with that, though my biggest concern for the rest of the year is how we play, weekly, and with what consistency.

Adelaide- 45% chance-   Winnable, but this side is dangerous. Must be switched on.

Freo- 50% chance- Who knows? This side have won 3 on the trot, could be 4, they'll have the bye behind them. And it's in the sweaty abyss of our contractually beloved NT

St.Kilda- 50% chance- I think we could catch the Saints with their pants down this time, but their ceiling is very high at Etihad and it still has potential to be another ugly one

West Coast- 20% chance- More likely to be competitive than previous years, but surely no. No Naitanui (pretty sure) helps

GC- 95% chance- Let's just say: easier than Essendon.

Hawthorn- 35% chance- Could be mentally closing up shop a bit pre-finals, surely our last competitive effort will fill us with some hope.

Port- 32.5% chance- We got really close last time there, and we're pretty good at Adelaide oval. Doable. 

Carlton- 45% chance- We just aren't good enough against Carlton. If they keep their form up I can see them winning in more situations.

Geelong- 25% chance- Depends what the Cats are playing for. Or what we're playing for! (probably not). But we did it last year, that means something.

 

36 minutes ago, Abe said:

I agree with you SWYL i think we desperately need to bring in real leader who has tasted success and is still good enough to contribute. 

Luke Hodge is rumored to be the one the Hawks will move on at years end, could a one year deal with an extra year as an assistant coach convince him to play on for one more? 

Nathan Jones and our young leaders would learn a huge amount just having him in the club, he would be worth it even if he only played 10-15 games and mentored our players outside of that. 

I really like our young list, and i think Nathan Jones is definitely the right person to be captain but he hasn't tasted success, we're currently relying on Dawes and Lumumba to be that finals guide and imo neither are certain best 22 players.

Ever since the Essendon game it has been glarifyingly obvious. We are now back to the Flat Track Bully stage

the team has talent and can play well. But as soon as serious pressure is put on them during a gamethey have no idea collectively what to do. 

I honestly thought Roosy would fix this, but it is deeper than even i thought. 

The only way it can be eradicated is onfield leadership

I know other clubs have done it with inhouse players

but it won't at Melbourne. We were just so bad between 2011-14

we have to import

11 hours ago, ProDee said:

One or two more wins for 7 or 8 in the season would be an unmitigated disaster for the club, supporters and Paul Roos' legacy.

And it won't happen.

We could win 4 of our next 5.  

Nine is the bare minimum.  I think it will be between 9-11.

 

If wishes were horses Pro. 7 or 8 is the most likely if being realistic

3 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

If wishes were horses Pro. 7 or 8 is the most likely if being realistic

And it is a terrible result....

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Ever since the Essendon game it has been glarifyingly obvious. We are now back to the Flat Track Bully stage

the team has talent and can play well. But as soon as serious pressure is put on them during a gamethey have no idea collectively what to do. 

I honestly thought Roosy would fix this, but it is deeper than even i thought. 

The only way it can be eradicated is onfield leadership

I know other clubs have done it with inhouse players

but it won't at Melbourne. We were just so bad between 2011-14

we have to import

I think we have leadership on the field already SW.

Some lead by example, like Jones, but aren't all that Vocal. And as great as Jones is and has been through the horror years (and now...a great club man who has done everything in his power to lift this club) he does have limitations but still in our top 2/3 most weeks. A great leader by example/effort.

We have Dawesy up forward provided he stays fit. Effort is there and he knows what good forward structure and pressure looks like having played in a Premiership team. He is also pretty vocal. Can't see him having a huge impact on the scoreboard but offers the vocal organising/education side and a big decoy body to take the 2nd string defender away from Watts. At least until another develops at KC to replace him such as Weids or Huilett (spell).

Big M is also very vocal and leading by example this year in the middle and around the ground.

When he's ready to return we also have H. Also vocal, does his best to lead by example and also a premiership player who would also know how to organise the troops, get the structures right on forward press/zoning etc.

In short we have four solid leaders. I would also add Mr Vince in there. No doubt he is also vocal on the field and a huge help in defence and around the ground generally.

i think the basis of leadership is there across the lines provided they're on the park and in form.

Personally we just need to top up with experience/seniority now to finish off the Good work by the youngsters as well as knowing when to slow things down/correct their mistakes where possible and just having the bigger bodies to handle the riggers against the top clubs. If they also bring leadership qualities then of course that would be a bonus but not super critical IMO, provided they get the job done.

 

2 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I think we have leadership on the field already SW.

Some lead by example, like Jones, but aren't all that Vocal. And as great as Jones is and has been through the horror years (and now...a great club man who has done everything in his power to lift this club) he does have limitations but still in our top 2/3 most weeks. A great leader by example/effort.

We have Dawesy up forward provided he stays fit. Effort is there and he knows what good forward structure and pressure looks like having played in a Premiership team. He is also pretty vocal. Can't see him having a huge impact on the scoreboard but offers the vocal organising/education side and a big decoy body to take the 2nd string defender away from Watts. At least until another develops at KC to replace him such as Weids or Huilett (spell).

Big M is also very vocal and leading by example this year in the middle and around the ground.

When he's ready to return we also have H. Also vocal, does his best to lead by example and also a premiership player who would also know how to organise the troops, get the structures right on forward press/zoning etc.

In short we have four solid leaders. I would also add Mr Vince in there. No doubt he is also vocal on the field and a huge help in defence and around the ground generally.

i think the basis of leadership is there across the lines provided they're on the park and in form.

Personally we just need to top up with experience/seniority now to finish off the Good work by the youngsters as well as knowing when to slow things down/correct their mistakes where possible and just having the bigger bodies to handle the riggers against the top clubs. If they also bring leadership qualities then of course that would be a bonus but not super critical IMO, provided they get the job done.

 

I wish i had your optimism Rusty!

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I wish i had your optimism Rusty!

Haha the experience top up wish is merely that SW. Oh, and while we're on wishes! ......

it's a pipe dream but within that more senior/experienced top up I would love to buy in a champion player who may be on the verge of retirement but with at least 2 years of solid play left. Highly unlikely and fictitious I realise but we do need a champ who can really be the icing on the cake and occasionally win a tight match or turn a game off his own boot. AKA Ablett Jnr. a few years back 

8 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Haha the experience top up wish is merely that SW. Oh, and while we're on wishes! ......

it's a pipe dream but within that more senior/experienced top up I would love to buy in a champion player who may be on the verge of retirement but with at least 2 years of solid play left. Highly unlikely and fictitious I realise but we do need a champ who can really be the icing on the cake and occasionally win a tight match or turn a game off his own boot. AKA Ablett Jnr. a few years back 

S Johnson at GW$

57 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

S Johnson at GW$

Yep or E.Betts ...we have Jeffy but not in the same league.

Fyfe's contract up this year or next? 

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Thus the cycle will continue.....

So who should we target? If you can't answer the question then why bother moping and whinging about it. Who is out of contract that is a realistic option? 

11 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

If wishes were horses Pro. 7 or 8 is the most likely if being realistic

"Realistic" is such a tenuous thing in footy.  A year ago it wouldn't have seemed realistic that we'd beat Collingwood 3 times over the next 18 rounds considering we hadn't beaten them for years.

Early in the season it wouldn't have seemed realistic that Geelong would lose to Collingwood or Carlton, but they did.  Footy is never realistic.

Rightly, or wrongly there's not a team I now fear in the AFL.  Playing Sydney in the wet wasn't ideal, but in the dry I reckon we would have been a genuine chance.

There are a number of games coming up that I think we can win and it starts with Adelaide at the 'G next week.  I reckon most teams are ordinary.  Adelaide is ordinary, but they're talked up.  They'll be coming off a six day break against a combative side in pouring rain.  No excuses if we don't beat them on our home deck.  Freo are rubbish despite their 3 wins in a row.  Carlton and the Saints are crap, irrespective of their recent record against us.  Gold Coast...  Our talent is getting more mature every week and hopefully we continue to nail down our ball movement and team defence, which can let us down.  I see us winning at least 4 out of our last 9 games.  It's an easy draw.

Naturally, I can see the alternative viewpoint that thinks we'll hardly win another game.  I'm a Melbourne supporter, after-all.

We'll know soon enough.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So who should we target? If you can't answer the question then why bother moping and whinging about it. Who is out of contract that is a realistic option? 

Who's moping and whinging?

i am merely stating opinions on what should happen. If it differs to your ideas so be it

I don't really agree that we need to be importing our leadership anymore, however i see Stevie J, James Kelly and even Chapman from a couple of years back and wondering if there were any inquiries made at all.  Kelly in particular is playing exceptional football and was a delisted free agent. 

11 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I don't really agree that we need to be importing our leadership anymore, however i see Stevie J, James Kelly and even Chapman from a couple of years back and wondering if there were any inquiries made at all.  Kelly in particular is playing exceptional football and was a delisted free agent. 

Perhaps they weren't interested, or, maybe we didn't offer enough. Agreed, they definitely would have bought something to the table. Either way, it's given us a chance to get games into the youngsters and allow us to develop our leadership from within. Stevie J may or may not have been a good mix for Petracca. Kelly's form definitely would have benefited our midfield. 

Just now, Demi Dee said:

Perhaps they weren't interested, or, maybe we didn't offer enough. Agreed, they definitely would have bought something to the table. Either way, it's given us a chance to get games into the youngsters and allow us to develop our leadership from within. Stevie J may or may not have been a good mix for Petracca. Kelly's form definitely would have benefited our midfield. 

I can imagine Stevie J and even Chapman not being interested, and SJ choice is probably vindicated.

Kelly though was retired unitl January as he's a top up player.  I think we might have missed one there (along with most clubs).

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I can imagine Stevie J and even Chapman not being interested, and SJ choice is probably vindicated.

Kelly though was retired unitl January as he's a top up player.  I think we might have missed one there (along with most clubs).

Agreed. Pretty happy with the recruiting department of late, despite this oversight. 

12 wins

7 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Who's moping and whinging?

i am merely stating opinions on what should happen. If it differs to your ideas so be it

Your wishing for something without being able to articulate how it might work in reality. You can't even name one person who fits your description that we should be targeting?

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Your wishing for something without being able to articulate how it might work in reality. You can't even name one person who fits your description that we should be targeting?

Watson.

6 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Watson.

Now that is controversial

52 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Your wishing for something without being able to articulate how it might work in reality. You can't even name one person who fits your description that we should be targeting?

I leave that up to those who are paid to recruit for the club. 

All i can see is still a massive imbalance of our list.