The Diamond Defence

[Adam The God 30,261]

It was interesting seeing us pinning them inside our forward 50. We'd have everyone inside 50 except Jetta and then Hunt and another in a triangle. 

As for the Diamond Defence, it was particularly noticeable today and certainly, Petracca and Kent started at half back quite often.

Edited July 4, 2016 by AdamPleb

[Clintosaurus 7,849]

Do we have anyone in the backline playing as an 'anchor'? Phil Davis from GWS nearly all the time sits goal side of his opponent. If his opponent moves 10 metres closer to goal he also moves 10 metres closer to maintain position and not allow anyone to get out the back. Not sure of the stats but I'd be pretty sure they wouldn't concede too many within 30 metres of goal. 

[Adam The God 30,261]

45 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Do we have anyone in the backline playing as an 'anchor'? Phil Davis from GWS nearly all the time sits goal side of his opponent. If his opponent moves 10 metres closer to goal he also moves 10 metres closer to maintain position and not allow anyone to get out the back. Not sure of the stats but I'd be pretty sure they wouldn't concede too many within 30 metres of goal. 

Jetta was playing this role. Not sure how long he played it, but I noticed it a couple of times.

[Biffen 12,943]

18 hours ago, AdamPleb said:

It was interesting seeing us pinning them inside our forward 50. We'd have everyone inside 50 except Jetta and then Hunt and another in a triangle. 

The Diamond Defence was particularly noticeable today and certainly, Petracca and Kent started at half back quite often.

Our diamond got turned to dust in the first 7.5 minutes of the 3rd.

i reckon it should be used selectively.

Running off half back requires timing .

If we lose the bounce it gets messy down back .

Playing with no forward flanks is another thing .

i prefer the forward flanks running from half back.

[Fork 'em 6,984]

Diamond Defence is Russian Roulette.

[Lucifers Hero 39,838]

Bump.

I thought we had tightened the weaknesses in our zone defence.  It is highly vulnerable when there are a lot of turnovers and our players can't get back.  Last year Ess were the first to exploit it: 

• We got sucked into the contest,
• they held a player back, got the ball out,
• took it to the other side of the ground and
• easily ran it home to unguarded players. 

Other noticeable examples were StKilda x 2, Port in NT, Sydney and to a lesser extent the first half vs North.  Last night Eagles did the same. 

After the Port game, Roos moved away from the zone somewhat and went back to 'defence first' principles.   We didn't use the zone much after that.

I just hope we know when to abandon the zone defence for a whole game (eg vs Hawthorn last year) or during a game when it is not working or when it doesn't suit the arena or weather conditions (eg vs Sydney 2016, MCG).

Will be interesting to see how the year pans out. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Skuit 10,031]

24 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I thought we had tightened the weaknesses in this zone defence.

Last year Ess were the first to exploit it:  We got sucked into the contest, they held a player back, got the ball out, took it to the other side of the ground and easily ran it home to unguarded players.  Other noticeable examples were StKilda x 2, Port in NT and Sydney.  Last night Eagles did the same. 

After the Port game, Roos moved away from the zone somewhat and went back to 'defence first' principles. 

I just hope we know when to abandon the zone defence for a whole game (eg vs Hawthorn last year) or during a game when it is not working.

Will be interesting to see how the year pans out. 

So many things.

Essendon beat us in the centre. Sydney? An old fashioned suburban 80's mud-slog.

Roos went back to 'defence-first' principles after Port in Alice? If it were true, we lost five of the next seven. 

I'm not sure what made you think we'd tightened our defensive plan in the first place. We're content with conceding goals - hence the Diamond.

 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Last night was a JLT cup game at an unusual shaped and sized oval against a side used to playing there and who are a legitimate top 4 and premiership contender. Our zone, press and diamond defence need to work first and foremost at the MCG. Last night was not a good indicator of its effectiveness by any measure.

It is incredibly frustrating to watch when the opposition get goals over the back from pressing up to high or when they dissect us with precision when we are standing in a diamond and the opposition have loose players. But it doesn't matter how frustrating it is visually, if it is an effective game plan where the rewards outweigh the risks it is well worth it. Time will tell but I have a feeling we are in for a roller coaster ride.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

I guess the other thing to question about the zone is are other clubs doing similar? We get upset when Tommy Mac is committed to another opposition mid size player and another smaller back has to go to a "tall" opposition. Mismatches happen all the time in zones.

If other clubs are doing similar maybe playing the two rucks and having Spencer / Gawn resting in the forward line creates mismatches or at least prevents other teams playing how they want to.

 

 

 

 

 

[junk 342]

As long as the the diamond defence doesn't turn into a zirconium defence, that should be fine!!!!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,223]

On 10/03/2017 at 10:05 AM, Wrecker45 said:

Last night was a JLT cup game at an unusual shaped and sized oval against a side used to playing there and who are a legitimate top 4 and premiership contender. Our zone, press and diamond defence need to work first and foremost at the MCG. Last night was not a good indicator of its effectiveness by any measure.

It is incredibly frustrating to watch when the opposition get goals over the back from pressing up to high or when they dissect us with precision when we are standing in a diamond and the opposition have loose players. But it doesn't matter how frustrating it is visually, if it is an effective game plan where the rewards outweigh the risks it is well worth it. Time will tell but I have a feeling we are in for a roller coaster ride.

Turnovers kill you on zone defense and our turnovers on Thursday were ridiculous

[DeeSpencer 25,715]

Turnovers against a zone defense kill you. But turnovers against any form of defending are nearly fatal these days anyway so I assume the theory is better off being aggressive and getting the defending up the ground and in space so they can win the ball back. 

I do have some concerns about the backline being over coached and overly aggressive instead of using smarts to know when to hang back but overall I'm still a huge fan of zone defending. Hawks won 3 flags in a row with it then Dogs beat Sydney purely because they got more turnovers in better areas of the ground. 

We know we need better defensive pressure from the forwards and that's been a focus of the preseason. 

We know we need to cut down the turnovers and I'm not sure that's been fully worked out yet. One thing I'd like to see is the players take note of Pav's comments about 'fast ball movement' and how waiting one or two seconds is still fast movement. Go quickly, don't rush.

The other thing we need to do is sort out the forward line leading patters. The players just don't work together well enough yet and there was too much looking for the over the top or deep bomb in against the Eagles. I'm hoping some of that was a Subi thing and players just not judging the kicks. Petracca tried to launch a kick about 70m over the Eagles defenders at one stage which I'm sure was a ground dimensions thing.

 

[monoccular 17,431]

10 hours ago, ENYAW said:

As long as the the diamond defence doesn't turn into a zirconium defence, that should be fine!!!!

More like Kryptonite - keep Kent away. 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

11 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Turnovers against a zone defense kill you. But turnovers against any form of defending are nearly fatal these days anyway so I assume the theory is better off being aggressive and getting the defending up the ground and in space so they can win the ball back. 

I do have some concerns about the backline being over coached and overly aggressive instead of using smarts to know when to hang back but overall I'm still a huge fan of zone defending. Hawks won 3 flags in a row with it then Dogs beat Sydney purely because they got more turnovers in better areas of the ground. 

We know we need better defensive pressure from the forwards and that's been a focus of the preseason. 

We know we need to cut down the turnovers and I'm not sure that's been fully worked out yet. One thing I'd like to see is the players take note of Pav's comments about 'fast ball movement' and how waiting one or two seconds is still fast movement. Go quickly, don't rush.

The other thing we need to do is sort out the forward line leading patters. The players just don't work together well enough yet and there was too much looking for the over the top or deep bomb in against the Eagles. I'm hoping some of that was a Subi thing and players just not judging the kicks. Petracca tried to launch a kick about 70m over the Eagles defenders at one stage which I'm sure was a ground dimensions thing.

 

I 100% agree with your comments... re Pavs comment about waiting... i think that comes fown to experience as well. Just watch Lewis he does it so well. 

Also in defence players getting sucked in to contests and not trusting team mates 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Unleash Hell