1 minute ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

yeah, it hurt saturday but at least with the last few weeks I was able to go home and say "I saw what they tried to do, it didnt work this time, but we can pick up and go again next week" Unlike the bombers loss when i looked at it and went "were we putting our hands up for witches hats auditions?!"

Yep, totally agree. Was more disappointed than angry on Saturday. Felt like we all knew what was going to happen. Mostly I was annoyed that the players had come out saying they didn't need wake up calls anymore when that's clearly not the case, they need one every few weeks still.

 

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yep, totally agree. Was more disappointed than angry on Saturday. Felt like we all knew what was going to happen. Mostly I was annoyed that the players had come out saying they didn't need wake up calls anymore when that's clearly not the case, they need one every few weeks still.

 

You'd think a look tomorrow the win/loss column over the past 2 years of roos tenure, as well as finals played and finals won would be a motive. 

Now I know the season is a marathon not a sprint, but surely any time you step on the field you're thinking about how to impact the next contest/play that can help your team. On Saturday we had so many players who went through the motions. I'm sure others who were at the game can agree with me how frustrating it was watching our players amble (barely a jog) from contest to contest. 

And I'm not talking young players. If jogging to contests was a crime, Vince, Jones, mcdonald and Tyson* would be most wanted men.

*yes I understand Tyson is still young but he's what, 5th year on a list?

6 minutes ago, Generation dee said:

You'd think a look tomorrow the win/loss column over the past 2 years of roos tenure, as well as finals played and finals won would be a motive. 

Now I know the season is a marathon not a sprint, but surely any time you step on the field you're thinking about how to impact the next contest/play that can help your team. On Saturday we had so many players who went through the motions. I'm sure others who were at the game can agree with me how frustrating it was watching our players amble (barely a jog) from contest to contest. 

And I'm not talking young players. If jogging to contests was a crime, Vince, Jones, mcdonald and Tyson* would be most wanted men.

*yes I understand Tyson is still young but he's what, 5th year on a list?

Leadership was very disappointing too. Everyone bags Cotchin but he got his group together and talked to them after the Port game, we just trudged off with our heads down yet again. There was no spirit, no getting around each other, just a real "nothing" of a feel to it. When will this group realize you have to bring the effort EVERY WEEK?!

 

14 minutes ago, Generation dee said:

You'd think a look tomorrow the win/loss column over the past 2 years of roos tenure, as well as finals played and finals won would be a motive. 

Now I know the season is a marathon not a sprint, but surely any time you step on the field you're thinking about how to impact the next contest/play that can help your team. On Saturday we had so many players who went through the motions. I'm sure others who were at the game can agree with me how frustrating it was watching our players amble (barely a jog) from contest to contest. 

And I'm not talking young players. If jogging to contests was a crime, Vince, Jones, mcdonald and Tyson* would be most wanted men.

*yes I understand Tyson is still young but he's what, 5th year on a list?

Not excusing Tyson here, but he was injured for a good portion of his GWS spell. He's only just played 50 games.

This St Kilda loss was another that I put down to growing pains with the new footballing systems we have in place. The 18 man press will take time to learn sufficiently. Hopefully, they learn a lot from Saturday in that when things are going against them, they must react in this way. If the coaches are doing their jobs, they will point out how and why we failed.

On May 1, 2016 at 10:01 AM, DeeZone said:

I agree that Hunt, Salem & Harmes should make way for Oliver, ANB and one other and even though we got smashed I was really surprised to see that we still achieved 55 Inside fifty's to the saints 57. It was the way they ran it out of our forward fifty that really concerned me, whereas we struggled to stop them from scoring and they were kicking from all angles they also had 14 marks inside 50. Our back line was a shambles yesterday, hopefully it was just a glitch like the Bombers game!!

We need to work out how to defend against a spread and run rebound team it was a shambles sat but a good measuring stick im sure its first priority in the learning this week . Maybe man on man or even a loose man pretty sure i dont have the answer .  

50 minutes ago, AzzKikA said:

Seriously, when will people stop calling for Frost to be put in the back line...IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!  He didn't train there once during the preseason, by all the reports, and he wasn't even thrown back there this weekend when Dunn and Hunt were moved forward, Pedo was, get it into your heads, he isn't playing in the back line.

 

It's a good point you make about him not doing any pre-season as a backman.  But quite frankly he can't play forward and he doesn't ruck.  So he needs to be out of the side.

Forward line play has changed over the years and players need to play both ways, offence and defence.  Frost offers something defensively - provided he sticks his tackles!  But offence hasn't gone away and if anything even greater skills than ever are required to make the most of limited opportunities - Frost offers nothing offensively because his skills are so limited.  Drops sitters, miskicks and fumbles.  For every decent thing he does there's 2 shockers. He doesn't play as a tall forward so there are a number of replacements for his role.

He could possibly have a role in defence where he can use his incredible closing speed and height both to keep with tall forwards and make a contest when it goes over the top. But I'm not sure if we could live with both him and Tommy Macs poor kicking skills together.

Frankly we have a massive problem with ruck/forward.  Pedersen has played well but when he's rucking we are exposed.  Even though I've cited Spencer as nothing more than back-up 1st ruck for Gawn, I am starting to think he's be a better option than Pedersen/Frost.  He's similar to Frost in offensive threat but he's capable in the ruck and would free Gawn to be a genuine offensive threat when he's taking a spell.  It's NOT a true solution but it's starting to look like the least worst.

3 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Frost offers nothing offensively

He did kick 2 goals on the weekend. More than Kent, Pedersen and Garlett combined. Just sayin...

 

16 minutes ago, stuie said:

He did kick 2 goals on the weekend. More than Kent, Pedersen and Garlett combined. Just sayin...

 

he also missed a sitter by about 3x the distance he needed to kick it. I've been trying to support his place in the team the last few weeks but god that kinda miss makes it hard. Its a momentum killer. 

Candidates for demotion this week in order of priority: Lumumba, Frost, Harmes, Wagner, Hunt, Dunn. Kennedy and Salem on thin ice. Petracca stays because he will be better for the run.

Assume Oliver is a certainty, I would also bring in McDonald, Grimes, Garland, Stretch and Trengove.

7 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

he also missed a sitter by about 3x the distance he needed to kick it. I've been trying to support his place in the team the last few weeks but god that kinda miss makes it hard. Its a momentum killer. 

Yeah it was a bad miss, but at least he contributed to our score unlike Garlett and Pedersen.

 

5 minutes ago, poita said:

Candidates for demotion this week in order of priority: Lumumba, Frost, Harmes, Wagner, Hunt, Dunn. Kennedy and Salem on thin ice. Petracca stays because he will be better for the run.

Assume Oliver is a certainty, I would also bring in McDonald, Grimes, Garland, Stretch and Trengove.

Too many changes, just last week we couldnt find a way to get some of these guys out. I agree lumumba is a problem but i would astouded if he was dropped his dumb run is what they want but i would move him to the wing where he can get more space. I think harmes and wagner are the 2 most vulnerable even though i think at their best they are both in the 22. I'd bring in Oliver and ANB. Hunt needs to stay in and learn to use his run at this level I would persist for another week or 2. Dunn for Omac? maybe, I wouldnt be upset about that but also wouldnt be super happy either. Garland? hasnt he been dissapointing at VFL level? (I'm not sure of his form this weekend but even if he was good is 1 game enough?)

Out: Harmes(looked wrecked) Lumumba, Salem and Pedo also looked stuffed

In: Oliver, Trengove, Garland and Mitchie(seems to be having strong performances at Casey)/ANB

6 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah it was a bad miss, but at least he contributed to our score unlike Garlett and Pedersen.

 

If Jeff cannot play put the back, he does little to nothing.

1 minute ago, AzzKikA said:

If Jeff cannot play put the back, he does little to nothing.

He was disappointing on Saturday, even when he went to the middle he couldn't get going.

 

Just now, stuie said:

He was disappointing on Saturday, even when he went to the middle he couldn't get going.

 

It really was just a poor showing all round.

I was on the wing with most Dee's supporters and we could all see what was happening. I can understand the need for stick to your guns and let the players work through a poor patch during a game but you cannot let it get to the point of killing their confidence.

Ben Ken was another one that was extremely disappointing, just didn't have the hard nose want for the ball, hasn't really had it since the pies game.  Needs a spell in the 2's to be reminded that others are willing to work hard every week.

So maybe:

IN: Oliver, Viv

OUT: Salem (con) BenKen (omi)

Vince to HB, even though i really dislike him there, Clarry straight swap for BenKen, & VIV is reward for playing well.  I know ANB was racking up big numbers but I think Viv is the better option, for now.

Should be more dropped but this teams bones are great when they play for each other and are helped out by the coaching staff.

Out: Hunt - Out of his depth, his running patterns don't allow him to use his speed and he can't anticipate when to leave his man and hunt the footy. No pun intended. He'll develop nicely at Casey.

Frost - His athleticism is great. Needs to work on his ground balls and clean hands down at VFL level. 

Salem - Just for a rest.

In: Trengove - He's done enough. Miles are in the legs and he brings experience to the team. I'd rather have it in Trenners hands 10 times than most others 15-20.

Oliver - Clean hands, handballs set players free. 

Michie - Reward for effort. Play him off half back and see if he can match Salem's output. 

10 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

Out: Hunt - Out of his depth, his running patterns don't allow him to use his speed and he can't anticipate when to leave his man and hunt the footy. No pun intended. He'll develop nicely at Casey.

Frost - His athleticism is great. Needs to work on his ground balls and clean hands down at VFL level. 

Salem - Just for a rest.

In: Trengove - He's done enough. Miles are in the legs and he brings experience to the team. I'd rather have it in Trenners hands 10 times than most others 15-20.

Oliver - Clean hands, handballs set players free. 

Michie - Reward for effort. Play him off half back and see if he can match Salem's output. 

Don't agree Dannyz he is a VFL talent I have seen enough in the past.

2 hours ago, AzzKikA said:

Seriously, when will people stop calling for Frost to be put in the back line...IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!  He didn't train there once during the preseason, by all the reports, and he wasn't even thrown back there this weekend when Dunn and Hunt were moved forward, Pedo was, get it into your heads, he isn't playing in the back line.

 

And because of the stubborness of the Coaching panel then we 

1 Stiffle his versatility

2 Do not know if this is a much better position for him.

This is head in the sand stuff which has no place in the modern game!

That was frosts best start to game yet , He has somthing to offer keep playing him or if dropped play him forward/ ruck in 2's he is part of our future no doubt . 

56 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

Out: Hunt - Out of his depth, his running patterns don't allow him to use his speed and he can't anticipate when to leave his man and hunt the footy. No pun intended. He'll develop nicely at Casey.

Frost - His athleticism is great. Needs to work on his ground balls and clean hands down at VFL level. 

Salem - Just for a rest.

In: Trengove - He's done enough. Miles are in the legs and he brings experience to the team. I'd rather have it in Trenners hands 10 times than most others 15-20.

Oliver - Clean hands, handballs set players free. 

Michie - Reward for effort. Play him off half back and see if he can match Salem's output. 

Play hunt but harmes may need a rest - michie nah for mine . 

In the Hogan thread apparently he's going in for scans on a finger today. So he might be an out.

Looks like Day could be out with a disc and for sure trent meckenzie hopefully I have it right this week . 

Won't matter who comes in because it's already been scripted:

Suns are decimated by injury and we will win in part because of this and also because this has again become another 'response' game for our club on the back of a quarter in which St Kilda kicked seven goals straight.

We will then lose to the Dogs. You can almost take that to the bank on both counts.

Had we lost to the Saints without having periods that again resembled the 2013 demons, nobody would be going on about it.

I blame coaches for not bringing enough fresh legs in and I also point the finger at consistently underperforming players who are the reason this side is so [censored] up and down..

 

Edited May 2, 20169 yr by stevethemanjordan

5 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Won't matter who comes in because it's already been scripted:

Suns are decimated by injury and we will win in part because of this and also because this has again become another 'response' game for our club on the back of a quarter in which St Kilda kicked seven goals straight.

We will then lose to the Dogs. You can almost take that to the bank.

Had we lost to the Saints without having periods that again resembled the 2013 demons, nobody would be going on about it.

I blame coaches for not bringing enough fresh legs in and I also point the finger at consistently underperforming players who were simply awful. 

But but the players said they "don't need wake up calls anymore........"

 

Frost is exactly like one of those young running types who get your spot when you are old and slow.

At training they kick it toward you and its such an ugly crap kick that by the time youve retrieved it, they are screaming for a handball so they can kick it out of bounds. No football skills. #still whinging.