It's always way more interesting at selection table after a loss.

Personally I think we were shown up for a lack of Etihad knowledge again. We went with a fast side (albeit without our equal fastest player Vanders and with our slowest in Dunn), which is how Etihad is regarded but St Kilda countered by going fast and increasing its mid-size players - Acres in for Lonie for example. The result was that Hunt had no-one his size to play on and was outmuscled by Acres and we had way too many small forwards (Kent, Garlett, Kennedy) trying to rove crumbs at a ground where the roof is shut and there's no wind so it rarely fell to the ground because Hoges either marked it or they did. What made Roos and his staff think we were going to have plenty of ground-balls to win outside of centre clearances is beyond me but then again, maybe they didn't get the memo about the roof being shut. 

Anyway I don't profess to know Metricon from the point of size dimensions, but I have seen enough of the Suns this year to know that whilst they are quick, they struggle with intensity and we are therefore a big chance if we grind the game out, rather than play with constant daring-do that we did against the Saints.

I'm hoping that Viney ends up playing on Ablett again - they both will be in the middle trying to win clearances anyway.

In terms of changes, it was pretty clear to me that there will be four non-negotiable changes and probably one more (five in total).

Salem will miss because of concussion - he's already had a couple of knocks this year and we will be extra careful, just like I'm sure we will be with Angus.

Hunt will miss because whilst he's fast and lively, he was unable to cope with Acres and now needs to go back to the VFL with his lessons from the past three weeks and make sure he's stronger over the ball. He'll be back a better player in a few weeks.

Dunn will miss because everything they were worried about pre-season came to fruition with his lack of pace meaning that the Saints constantly went over the top and he could not make the spoils.  

Frost will miss because his flawed kicking and tackling hurt big time - and for some reason that only Roos knows, they are unwilling top play him down back - preferring to send Pedo back there before him. Go figure! But he will be back in the side soon, he's too vital with his pressure and pace.

And I suspect one of our small forwards will miss - obviously it won't be Jeffy and Kent was brilliant v Richmond so it won't be him either, but I reckon one of Harmes or Kennedy will get sent back to do some time just refining their game a bit more - they've both done well, but neither has really dominated a game yet.

So five outs. I'm sure others will point the finger at H, but he's been great the past three weeks and deserves an off-day - yes I agree he was terrible and couldn't escape, but if you drop him then you probably also have to drop T-Mac  - that's how ludicrous it is to throw up senior players after one poor effort.

I wasn't at today's VFL game so obviously I may get this wrong, but IMO, the following are the most likely five.

1) Garland - He was clearly missed against the Saints because he can play on talls and shorts. Given our gung-ho style it would probably have been better to have his old down-the-line clearance on display to break up the rush. He is a given. 

2) Oliver - No club rests the future for three weeks. We aren't that dumb. He'll play.

3) Trengove - if he was tagged, then it's a sign of respect at how he's been going. He has the smarts and he has the intensity and he's now done enough game time to be fit.

The other two are less clear but depends on VFL form and team balance.

4) Stretch - From the sounds of it he worked his butt off. He's a clever linkman and to be honest, to me it's either him or his buddy ANB and Billy's outside link play is better. Ultimately he's replacing Harmes or Kennedy, but with Trengove will swing from wing to half forward.

5) Oscar - This assumes Gold Coast continue to go with two-metre Peter and that he got through the VFL game OK. If Gold Coast go small, then Terlich may finally get a gig, but I suspect they'll stick with Peter for another week. 

Sorry but I can't find room for Grimes or Michie. I'd love to see Grimes in, but I suspect he may miss again.

So:

Out: Salem (inj), Hunt, Dunn, Frost and one of Kennedy or Harmes - I'm tipping Kennedy, but it could just as easily be Harmes.

In:  Garland, Oliver, Trengove, Stretch and Osar Mc

B: Jetta T-Mac (on Lynch) O-Mac (on 2-metre Peter)

HB: Vince Garland Lumumba

C: Stretch Viney Bugg

HF: Petracca Pedersen Watts

F: Garlett Hoges Kent

Rucks: Gawn Tyson N.Jones

Int: Wagner (defensive rotation), Oliver (mid rotation), Trengove (forward/mid rotation), Harmes (forward rotation)

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

It's always way more interesting at selection table after a loss.

Personally I think we were shown up for a lack of Etihad knowledge again. We went with a fast side (albeit without our equal fastest player Vanders and with our slowest in Dunn), which is how Etihad is regarded but St Kilda countered by going fast and increasing its mid-size players - Acres in for Lonie for example. The result was that Hunt had no-one his size to play on and was outmuscled by Acres and we had way too many small forwards (Kent, Garlett, Kennedy) trying to rove crumbs at a ground where the roof is shut and there's no wind so it rarely fell to the ground because Hoges either marked it or they did. What made Roos and his staff think we were going to have plenty of ground-balls to win outside of centre clearances is beyond me but then again, maybe they didn't get the memo about the roof being shut. 

Anyway I don't profess to know Metricon from the point of size dimensions, but I have seen enough of the Suns this year to know that whilst they are quick, they struggle with intensity and we are therefore a big chance if we grind the game out, rather than play with constant daring-do that we did against the Saints.

I'm hoping that Viney ends up playing on Ablett again - they both will be in the middle trying to win clearances anyway.

In terms of changes, it was pretty clear to me that there will be four non-negotiable changes and probably one more (five in total).

Salem will miss because of concussion - he's already had a couple of knocks this year and we will be extra careful, just like I'm sure we will be with Angus.

Hunt will miss because whilst he's fast and lively, he was unable to cope with Acres and now needs to go back to the VFL with his lessons from the past three weeks and make sure he's stronger over the ball. He'll be back a better player in a few weeks.

Dunn will miss because everything they were worried about pre-season came to fruition with his lack of pace meaning that the Saints constantly went over the top and he could not make the spoils.  

Frost will miss because his flawed kicking and tackling hurt big time - and for some reason that only Roos knows, they are unwilling top play him down back - preferring to send Pedo back there before him. Go figure! But he will be back in the side soon, he's too vital with his pressure and pace.

And I suspect one of our small forwards will miss - obviously it won't be Jeffy and Kent was brilliant v Richmond so it won't be him either, but I reckon one of Harmes or Kennedy will get sent back to do some time just refining their game a bit more - they've both done well, but neither has really dominated a game yet.

So five outs. I'm sure others will point the finger at H, but he's been great the past three weeks and deserves an off-day - yes I agree he was terrible and couldn't escape, but if you drop him then you probably also have to drop T-Mac  - that's how ludicrous it is to throw up senior players after one poor effort.

I wasn't at today's VFL game so obviously I may get this wrong, but IMO, the following are the most likely five.

1) Garland - He was clearly missed against the Saints because he can play on talls and shorts. Given our gung-ho style it would probably have been better to have his old down-the-line clearance on display to break up the rush. He is a given. 

2) Oliver - No club rests the future for three weeks. We aren't that dumb. He'll play.

3) Trengove - if he was tagged, then it's a sign of respect at how he's been going. He has the smarts and he has the intensity and he's now done enough game time to be fit.

The other two are less clear but depends on VFL form and team balance.

4) Stretch - From the sounds of it he worked his butt off. He's a clever linkman and to be honest, to me it's either him or his buddy ANB and Billy's outside link play is better. Ultimately he's replacing Harmes or Kennedy, but with Trengove will swing from wing to half forward.

5) Oscar - This assumes Gold Coast continue to go with two-metre Peter and that he got through the VFL game OK. If Gold Coast go small, then Terlich may finally get a gig, but I suspect they'll stick with Peter for another week. 

Sorry but I can't find room for Grimes or Michie. I'd love to see Grimes in, but I suspect he may miss again.

So:

Out: Salem (inj), Hunt, Dunn, Frost and one of Kennedy or Harmes - I'm tipping Kennedy, but it could just as easily be Harmes.

In:  Garland, Oliver, Trengove, Stretch and Osar Mc

B: Jetta T-Mac (on Lynch) O-Mac (on 2-metre Peter)

HB: Vince Garland Lumumba

C: Stretch Viney Bugg

HF: Petracca Pedersen Watts

F: Garlett Hoges Kent

Rucks: Gawn Tyson N.Jones

Int: Wagner (defensive rotation), Oliver (mid rotation), Trengove (forward/mid rotation), Harmes (forward rotation)

Hang on. Vanders is our equal fastest player? Have I been watching the same guy for the past year and a bit?

4 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

Hang on. Vanders is our equal fastest player? Have I been watching the same guy for the past year and a bit?

Get to training one day and watch them pair off in the sprints. Fastest two over 50m are Vanders and Hunt and I actually think Vanders may have pipped Hunt, although that was before his ankle injury. Vanders was mega quick against Port pre-season but if you recall did his ankle against Dogs I think as third man up in ruck contest. He was playing hurt since - hence he didn't look mega quick in the actual AFL games and was walking wounded down in Tassie.

7 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Get to training one day and watch them pair off in the sprints. Fastest two over 50m are Vanders and Hunt and I actually think Vanders may have pipped Hunt, although that was before his ankle injury. Vanders was mega quick against Port pre-season but if you recall did his ankle against Dogs I think as third man up in ruck contest. He was playing hurt since - hence he didn't look mega quick in the actual AFL games and was walking wounded down in Tassie.

He's never struck me as quick, so is it the old Matthew Bate trick? Really fast in a straight line, but ordinary agility/from side to side? Surely Watts is quicker than both of them or Jeffy? 

Vanders is a lot quicker than Bater, but he's a big unit so you are right, he doesn't have quite as much agility as the little guys. Jeffy is mega quick over 20m but they don't ever seem to race over that distance at training. Wattsy wasn't doing the sprints the day I saw Hunt v VB, but I have seen him beat most of the boys - I'd probably rank him third fastest over 50m. Kent and Harmes are probably ranked 4 and 5 in the 50m sprints with Viney and Kennedy not far behind them and Frost in the mix as well. 

But it's a different story over 400m when the stayers come into their own.

Interesting sidenote to this game - Gold Coast own our 1st round pick this season and we play them later in the year as well

On 30 April 2016 at 5:06 PM, chook fowler said:

They won't play Brayshaw for 2 - 3 weeks. Now is the time for Trenners

And Matt Jones.

 

34 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

And Matt Jones.

 

Matt is the mystery injury man at the moment . Not listed with an injury but not playing anywhere either??????

Out   Salem (inj), Harmes, Hunt, Pederson

In .    Stretch, ANB, Oliver, Garland

Please try Frost in the back half and play Dunn at CHF although he is not the permanent answer there but a good long, accurate kick to Jesse as he proved on Saturday.

Trengove very close but more likely to play the following week at the MCG.

In Trengove and Oliver

Out Kennedy and Frost

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Matt is the mystery injury man at the moment . Not listed with an injury but not playing anywhere either??????

Heard a few people that have spoken with him and he's still carrying the rib injury. Won't be back for a couple of weeks.

Not sure why he's not on the injury list.

 

IN: Oliver, Stretch, ANB
OUT: Salem (concussion), Hunt, Dunn

Trengove and Hulett getting very close, I'd give Trenners a run next week at the G, would be a huge moment. Hulett needs maybe one more week of the same kind of performances and then he'd have to be in contention. Garls but probably needs to string it together for 2 weeks or more before coming back in, but Dunn's poor game might leave the door ajar.

 

IN: Michie Oliver ANB Stretch

OUT: Salem (concussion) Frost Harmes Hunt

Michie comes in for Salem and play his role. Was a clear BOG at Casey playing at half back all day with 35 disposals.

We missed Olivers clearence and grunt work. Viney and Jones needed a chop out and they had no support.

Alex Neal Bullen needs to be rewarded for his form the previous 4 weeks. Not only we know he can kick a goal up forward but he can go into the midfield and win a bit of the ball unlike Harmes. Another support act for Jones and Viney.

Stretch for bit of outside run and dash. We know he has a high endurance and high work rate maybe give him the job on Aaron hall and back him in.

 

On 30/04/2016 at 4:46 PM, Jaded said:

Will Lumumba ever not be an automatic inclusion in this side? 

If he was meant to be on Riewoldt on Saturday, he didnt get within a bulls roar of him. He stays for mine but needs to tighten up. Ditto for a couple of the other defenders.

14 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

If he was meant to be on Riewoldt on Saturday, he didnt get within a bulls roar of him. He stays for mine but needs to tighten up. Ditto for a couple of the other defenders.

Zone.

 

11 minutes ago, stuie said:

Zone.

Hard to watch when it doesnt work isnt it! 18 uncontested and only 1 contested mark inside saints 50 is just embarassing

Just now, ArtificialWisdom said:

Hard to watch when it doesnt work isnt it! 18 uncontested and only 1 contested mark inside saints 50 is just embarassing

Watching Jetta and Salem competing against Roo and Bruce in marking contests time after time was incredibly frustrating to watch.

 

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

Watching Jetta and Salem competing against Roo and Bruce in marking contests time after time was incredibly frustrating to watch.

 

That may well be the understatement of Monday 2nd stuie

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Watching Jetta and Salem competing against Roo and Bruce in marking contests time after time was incredibly frustrating to watch.

Only thing i can say is it has looked good the last 3 weeks when they have put pressure on the ball carrier, just look at all Tom's intercept marks last week. With consistancy I actually am starting to believe it may one day work but i think we are in for some really painfull loses in the mean time. 

Seriously, when will people stop calling for Frost to be put in the back line...IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!  He didn't train there once during the preseason, by all the reports, and he wasn't even thrown back there this weekend when Dunn and Hunt were moved forward, Pedo was, get it into your heads, he isn't playing in the back line.

 

I posted the following in the VFL thread, but is equally relevant here:

An article in the HS this morning indicated that Jack Trengove is building towards an AFL return, following another strong and composed (27 possession) performance for Casey on the weekend,  The article, which confirmed that Jack was tagged for the entire game, included the following comments from Justin Plapp:  "Trengove was influential in the Scorpions win.  He was winning the inside (midfield) battle quite a bit and he was clean with his disposal.  The last two weeks in a row he's nearly been our best player."

Jack must be getting very close.

1 minute ago, Deeoldfart said:

I posted the following in the VFL thread, but is equally relevant here:

An article in the HS this morning indicated that Jack Trengove is building towards an AFL return, following another strong and composed (27 possession) performance for Casey on the weekend,  The article, which confirmed that Jack was tagged for the entire game, included the following comments from Justin Plapp:  "Trengove was influential in the Scorpions win.  He was winning the inside (midfield) battle quite a bit and he was clean with his disposal.  The last two weeks in a row he's nearly been our best player."

Jack must be getting very close.

A good time to put in good games just when a few at senior level are faltering.

Just for once he might have good timing.

4 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Only thing i can say is it has looked good the last 3 weeks when they have put pressure on the ball carrier, just look at all Tom's intercept marks last week. With consistancy I actually am starting to believe it may one day work but i think we are in for some really painfull loses in the mean time. 

Yeah it can work really well, but when we're flat or not running hard (or both) and losing the clearances so badly it's gonna hurt...

 

The Trengove article. Good to hear also Benny Newton build towards some good form. Thought he showed glimpse as a half forward last year. With Vandenberg injured and Harmes starting to tire out a bit there will be that spot up for grabs you would think.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/vfl-jack-trengrove-putting-his-case-for-afl-comeback-20160501-gojghw.html

Edited May 2, 20169 yr by dazzledavey36

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Yeah it can work really well, but when we're flat or not running hard (or both) and losing the clearances so badly it's gonna hurt...

yeah, it hurt saturday but at least with the last few weeks I was able to go home and say "I saw what they tried to do, it didnt work this time, but we can pick up and go again next week" Unlike the bombers loss when i looked at it and went "were we putting our hands up for witches hats auditions?!"