Just now, nutbean said:

As I said in my original post, leave it to the professionals. We can both agree that he wasn't left out for poor form, therefore I leave managing of 1st year players to the fitness staff who may actually have a bit more insight ( coupled with a degree of two) into these types of decisions. 

For the first time in a long time we are in a position to actually manage young players properly. we have all been critical of our development of players at the MFC and now that they are looking to manage the development of the players some of us are being overly critical. If resting Oliver and then bring him back via Casey isgoing to help him to develop and mature I have no problems with that.

2 minutes ago, nutbean said:

As I said in my original post, leave it to the professionals. We can both agree that he wasn't left out for poor form, therefore I leave managing of 1st year players to the fitness staff who may actually have a bit more insight ( coupled with a degree of two) into these types of decisions. 

Yeah well I have a Grad Dip in Sports Science from Rusden ( among other things) so I think I might know a "smidgen" about it as well!

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Disappointing Oliver's not in. We could probably use him instead of Frost especially at Etihad where a fast track means you can be caught out playing too many talls. I know Frost isnt slow but still 

It's okay. Frost doesn't play tall either. 

We need to make sure the Saints don't kill us with run again. They've gotten us the last few times with some speed through the middle. Montagna and Steven can run riot. I hope Bugg goes to Steven to curb him and we can get on top around the stoppages to limit their outside spread from the contest. Should be a close match, but we can definitely win. I'm pumped!

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

Yeah well I have a Grad Dip in Sports Science from Rusden ( among other things) so I think I might know a "smidgen" about it as well!

So I suggest you email the club and tell them they know diddley squat about sports science and player management and offer them your services. I am sure Misson will get you onboard immediately. 

2 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

We need to make sure the Saints don't kill us with run again. They've gotten us the last few times with some speed through the middle. Montagna and Steven can run riot. I hope Bugg goes to Steven to curb him and we can get on top around the stoppages to limit their outside spread from the contest. Should be a close match, but we can definitely win. I'm pumped!

And this is exactly my point! Mids mids run and carry, Frost surplus to needs this game Oliver should play!!

6 minutes ago, nutbean said:

So I suggest you email the club and tell them they know diddley squat about sports science and player management and offer them your services. I am sure Misson will get you onboard immediately. 

Not saying they know Diddly, just saying that in my view and with a footy background, if Oliver has no injury issues then he should have played last week, and previous form should have meant he was an automatic selection!

Saints are going small at Etihad !!! Warning bells are going of Left right and centre!!

I'll say more at the conclusion of Saturdays game lets leave it at that shall we!!?

I wonder weather Jake Melkshem would get a game if he were available next week?

Nothing would crush me more than getting smashed this weekend. Pretty nervous atm.

I can understand differing opinions on whether fit, heathy players deserve to be in the team but I fail to understand that with so little insight into how young players are travelling physically and no insight into the monitoring of these young players that you can be so sure that the Oliver decision is wrong. I would have thought  that your sports science degree would have taught you not to make sweeping pronouncements on such little information

Just now, picket fence said:

Not saying they know Diddly, just saying that in my view and with a footy background, if Oliver has no injury issues then he should have played last week, and previous form should have meant he was an automatic selection!

Is this a conclusion you could have come to without the hissy fit though child? I mean it's possible that the club has a little more intimate knowledge on how the players are tracking health wise than anyone on here.  Sports science degrees or not:p

3 minutes ago, Jesse Christ said:

Is this a conclusion you could have come to without the hissy fit though child? I mean it's possible that the club has a little more intimate knowledge on how the players are tracking health wise than anyone on here.  Sports science degrees or not:p

That's all of us isn't it ?? We do  ot know the machinations but unless more info provided( which never happens) we are left to draw our own comclusions. So on the basis of that I have posted my views on the subject Wrong or Right!

I have provided my opinion ( as usual forcefully) but don't care about that its about passion and opinion. I have mine and others have there own! That's what a forum is about I would have thought!!

On 26 April 2016 at 7:24 AM, Demonland said:

That could not be said of its performances over most of the past decade (and indeed, the Essendon game which surely now must be considered an aberration).

That is far too simple.

It will not be an aberration until it has been well and truly exorcised by showing the mental toughness, indeed ruthlessness, winning games that we are expected to win.

Hopefully starting this week.

Here's hoping that homeostasis doesn't kick in, and we don't go back to our usual selves...which is certainly within our capabilities. Real worried.

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

 

I'll say more at the conclusion of Saturdays game lets leave it at that shall we!!?

Not sure what bearing Saturday's game will have. This decision is obviously not about the game, it's about Oliver. So win lose or draw makes no difference to the decision about what is best for a young player in his first season. 

I have no idea how Oliver is travelling but I do know that Brayshaw fell away in the second half of the season and Roos openly admitted they overplayed him. 

I want Oliver playing as badly as you . But I want him up and firing when he does. 

37 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yeah well why rest him if the intention was that he wasn't going the play te following week. Shocking and poor management IMV! If as some posters have speculated he needs to build a tank then he wouldn't have gained anything from not playing last week ! An in retrospect he is now behind the 8 ball> Don't agree at all with this!

Needed an actual rest. Still needs to build his tank. First preseason, nab cup 4 rounds in big league. Just a puppy. Only playing 60% game time

Happy to see him play 4-6 games at Casey to build his tank barring injury to other mids

 

43 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I really question the rationale and decision making regarding the managemnet of Clayton Oliver Rested last week and if not injured then he should have been a walk up start this week. His impressive form in all but his latest game ( two weeks ago) demanded his reselection. If he doesn't play I don't like it OR agree with it.

Terrible player management IMV!

If we win, it's good player management.

We can't play 26 guys.

15 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Not sure what bearing Saturday's game will have. This decision is obviously not about the game, it's about Oliver. So win lose or draw makes no difference to the decision about what is best for a young player in his first season. 

I have no idea how Oliver is travelling but I do know that Brayshaw fell away in the second half of the season and Roos openly admitted they overplayed him. 

I want Oliver playing as badly as you . But I want him up and firing when he does. 

Well if we were to lose because we lack mids and clearances then You might have valid reasons for lamenting Oliver not playing! This might be exacaberated if we go in too top heavy! Agree with your last sentence!!

 I just would have thought forward line talls Hogan , Jack, Petracca plays tall and you have Pederson also in the mix. 

Oliver gives you another mid option and HFF 

IMV better at Etihad Vs Saints going in small! 

But what do I know according to you blokes?? SFA!

49 minutes ago, Sylvia Saint said:

Only tightness. DIsappointing because him and Riewoldt save their best footy for us even now when they are well into their 30s.

FCS just beat whomever is there!  Absolutely no point in lamenting who the opposition have available.  Who knows, they could get it wrong and he redoes his hammy in the opening contest?

30 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

No Weed named for Casey ? Reason

I am sure pickett will have a view.   Maybe they are wanting to mismanage him too?

Any late change would surely be ANB. No fitness concerns,  banging down the door,  clearance machine,  I could see him coming in if there's a late ommmision 

Kingy was having a good insight into how they, down at the scrays were spending a lot of time divvying up the time allowances for all their mids on ball in each game as well.

They have a lot of mids being swung through on ball with the highest getting a little over 60 minutes and the lowest if I remember correctly getting around 50 or less.

Project this down the track with us, as well, to round 10 or 12, and we have built, like they have, a lot of fit  match hardened mids. This was the crux of his point and it made a bit of sense to me.

For years we have had to worry about opposition. Now they have to worry about us. 

We don't have to pick a team to beat saints. 

23 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Well if we were to lose because we lack mids and clearances then You might have valid reasons for lamenting Oliver not playing! This might be exacaberated if we go in too top heavy! Agree with your last sentence!!

 I just would have thought forward line talls Hogan , Jack, Petracca plays tall and you have Pederson also in the mix. 

Oliver gives you another mid option and HFF 

IMV better at Etihad Vs Saints going in small! 

But what do I know according to you blokes?? SFA!

Again, I think you are missing the point. they are not considering the team balance when making this decision. They are obviously thinking of Oliver and his wellbeing and getting the most out of him for the entire season. It is a management issue.

i will completely say WTF if someone comes out and he gets a game ( of course they could be playing a game and know he will be playing already because someone else is not going to play but now I am second guessing myself). 

Either way I accept that they are doing this to get the best out of him got the whole season. 

A win this weekend would be huge for our confidence.

Knock off this 10-year Saints hoodoo, at Etihad as well. Three in a row would be nice, as would winning as favourites and with some expectation and good press during the week. And prove we've learnt from the Essendon game.

In any other year this would have loss written all over it. This year, maybe not.

6 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Again, I think you are missing the point. they are not considering the team balance when making this decision. They are obviously thinking of Oliver and his wellbeing and getting the most out of him for the entire season. It is a management issue.

i will completely say WTF if someone comes out and he gets a game ( of course they could be playing a game and know he will be playing already because someone else is not going to play but now I am second guessing myself). 

Either way I accept that they are doing this to get the best out of him got the whole season. 

Fair enough, you make valid points!! PF