12 minutes ago, stuie said:

So out of curiosity, how many of those saying this is now a disastrous trade would have expected pick 25 in a weak draft to be a regular 22 player in their first year?

We've got at least 2 experienced AFL people at our club who would have known what went on at Essendon and that Melksham would likely miss a year, so not sure why everyone is acting like we were blindsided by this. Although those people are probably the same ones who were bagging out Mahoney at the start of the trade period without realizing there was a bigger picture.

 

The value of the trade does not bother me Stuie, it has nothing to do with why i'm angry. I would feel the same if we got him for nothing, I have no time for liars and cheats.

1 hour ago, Forest Demon said:

If we are able to promote a rookie, I would like to see Mitch White get the opportunity. Melksham was recruited to play half back, and while I am sure they could shuffle things a bit, Harmes and Michie are not like for like replacements. White had a very good debut in the last game of last year and pre-season form permitting, don't think he would look out of place on the senior list. Give him the opportunity, put the heat on him, and see if he stands up. I am pretty confident he would succeed.

we are able to upgrade 2 rookies now

the rookie rules for 2016 allowed all clubs to nominate 1 rookie upgrade at the start of the season

 

Just now, DavidNeitz9 said:

The value of the trade does not bother me Stuie, it has nothing to do with why i'm angry. I would feel the same if we got him for nothing, I have no time for liars and cheats.

Yeah, I guess I see it differently. I have a lot of sympathy for the players. We all know what footy clubs are like, you are expected to trust the coach, believe what he says and do what you're told. I can't help but feel that kind of pressure tipped most players into not asking questions and towing the line, even more so if they felt their careers were on the line.

I don't believe the players willingly cheated and were duped into it by the coach and whichever admin staff knew what was actually happening.

 

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Yeah, I guess I see it differently. I have a lot of sympathy for the players. We all know what footy clubs are like, you are expected to trust the coach, believe what he says and do what you're told. I can't help but feel that kind of pressure tipped most players into not asking questions and towing the line, even more so if they felt their careers were on the line.

I don't believe the players willingly cheated and were duped into it by the coach and whichever admin staff knew what was actually happening.

 

Agree with everything you said Stuie, it would be a very difficult position to be in. It's a shame the players didn't man up and tell the truth as i don't think they ever intended to cheat. I was alot more sympathetic to the players before their lies were revealed, it's a shame they took that path. 

1 hour ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

He conspired with the other players to hide and lie about what they did, no excuse in my book mate. He's lucky he didn't get longer, i have zero respect for Melksham or any of the other lying players after reading the finding

 

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Harsh.

 

1 hour ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

Harsh but true Bizkit, What the players did to cover it up was disgraceful

Until I read the bit about answering "no" to specific questions regarding the use of supplements from ASADA at routine testing, I did have some small amount of sympathy for the players concerned, but not now.    

Sure they were lied to by their club about what they were given and re the legality of that, but they are drilled regularly on the use of any substances and know they will be asked questions by ASADA - I am just disappointed that the top echelons at the club seem to have escaped any WADA / CAS sanction.  Maybe it wasn't in their remit.

The Players knew what was going on

Don't kid yourself..Remember the first few Rounds of 2013...The Weapon was being interviewed on radio as a genius

the players knew that t was cutting edge. 

They also had instant access to the internet for advice. 

 

No sympathy from me

33 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah, I guess I see it differently. I have a lot of sympathy for the players. We all know what footy clubs are like, you are expected to trust the coach, believe what he says and do what you're told. I can't help but feel that kind of pressure tipped most players into not asking questions and towing the line, even more so if they felt their careers were on the line.

I don't believe the players willingly cheated and were duped into it by the coach and whichever admin staff knew what was actually happening.

 

I have none. They were willing participants in programmed cheating.

Just now, beelzebub said:

I have none. They were willing participants in programmed cheating.

I think that's too much of a black and white look at a situation which hopefully leads to constructive discussions about the culture of footy clubs.

 

I don't really know where I stand on it all in terms of the ban, but I don't see how you can argue picking up Melksham was not a mistake. If we got him for peanuts, maybe, but we gave up a decent pick for a player who will spend his first year sitting on the sidelines. Would you trade a second rounder for Melksham if he had just done his ACL and was going to be out for the next season? I certainly wouldn't. And it is not as if this wasn't foreseeable.

Melksham needs to come out absolutely firing in 2017, and considering Simon Goodwin was behind picking him up, it also applies a little extra pressure to the start of his coaching career in 2017.

Edited January 12, 20169 yr by Forest Demon

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

I think that's too much of a black and white look at a situation which hopefully leads to constructive discussions about the culture of footy clubs.

 

Why? All the information needed to see whether the program was legal was at their fingertips

The players were all happy until the injuries started...

 

 

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Why? All the information needed to see whether the program was legal was at their fingertips

The players were all happy until the injuries started...

Yeah I'm not sure you're the best person to discuss things with that aren't black and white. You've already missed the point of my post about the culture of footy clubs.

 

8 minutes ago, stuie said:

I think that's too much of a black and white look at a situation which hopefully leads to constructive discussions about the culture of footy clubs.

 

Hide in the grey. It IS Black and White !!

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Hide in the grey. It IS Black and White !!

For the simple minded maybe. You can keep shaking your fist all you like, I'd rather use this event to have a constructive discussion about footy club culture, the blind trust of leadership that's expected and what this means to those things.

 

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah I'm not sure you're the best person to discuss things with that aren't black and white. You've already missed the point of my post about the culture of footy clubs.

 

But who said you are right about a footy clubs culture anyway. 

Performance enhancing drugs are actually Black or White. 

Legal or illegal...Either a player takes them or they do not. 

The laws were not hard to find as proven by threads written on Demonland by people who want a clean sport and not have cheap Newspaper propaganda shoved down my theoat as truth. 

Rohan Conolly and Slobbo should sack themselves fora start....

13 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah I'm not sure you're the best person to discuss things with that aren't black and white. You've already missed the point of my post about the culture of footy clubs.

 

Someone doesn't agree so they're automatically wrong.

15 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah I'm not sure you're the best person to discuss things with that aren't black and white. You've already missed the point of my post about the culture of footy clubs.

 

And i'm not sure your the best person to discuss in terms of what really happens in the culture of footy club TBH.

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But who said you are right about a footy clubs culture anyway. 

Performance enhancing drugs are actually Black or White. 

Legal or illegal...Either a player takes them or they do not. 

The laws were not hard to find as proven by threads written on Demonland by people who want a clean sport and not have cheap Newspaper propaganda shoved down my theoat as truth. 

Rohan Conolly and Slobbo should sack themselves fora start....

Use your brain for once mate. Nowhere have I defended illegal drugs being used. Think past your usual rage and disgust at anything to do with football and realize my point is about the implications this whole situation will have on club culture and the trust of leadership.

Simple bloody minds.

 

3 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Someone doesn't agree so they're automatically wrong.

Missing the point of a post where I'm explaining how another posters missed the point... Congratulations, you win derp of the week.

 

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

For the simple minded maybe. You can keep shaking your fist all you like, I'd rather use this event to have a constructive discussion about footy club culture, the blind trust of leadership that's expected and what this means to those things.

 

Blind Faith is never a good thing under any circumstance. Yes it occurs but when it goes bad it really stinks. 

There is good reason why "Ignarance is no excuse" is the first rule of law....

20 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

I don't really know where I stand on it all in terms of the ban, but I don't see how you can argue picking up Melksham was not a mistake. If we got him for peanuts, maybe, but we gave up a decent pick for a player who will spend his first year sitting on the sidelines. Would you trade a second rounder for Melksham if he had just done his ACL and was going to be out for the next season? I certainly wouldn't. And it is not as if this wasn't foreseeable.

Melksham needs to come out absolutely firing in 2017, and considering Simon Goodwin was behind picking him up, it also applies a little extra pressure to the start of his coaching career in 2017.

We used pick 34 on Max Gawn who had done his ACL the previous season. He was untried at AFL level and a massive unit which could only put extra pressure on his knees. 

Sometimes you need to take educated risks.

 

4 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Someone doesn't agree so they're automatically wrong.

and coming from someone renowned for his rigid black and white moral preaching

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

For the simple minded maybe. You can keep shaking your fist all you like, I'd rather use this event to have a constructive discussion about footy club culture, the blind trust of leadership that's expected and what this means to those things.

 

Go over to Bomberblitz...they'll welcome you.

How about you see it for what it IS, not for your sugary ideal.

Players and a club got caught doing wrong. You're right in respect to a notion of simplicity.

They did wrong. Simple

We should have a meeting of true believers.

Is the Duke too small?

Bbub you have more connections.

D'Landers need to have a night out with a common theme

No Drugs. Beer & Wine allowed.  LOL.

 

27 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

I don't really know where I stand on it all in terms of the ban, but I don't see how you can argue picking up Melksham was not a mistake. If we got him for peanuts, maybe, but we gave up a decent pick for a player who will spend his first year sitting on the sidelines. Would you trade a second rounder for Melksham if he had just done his ACL and was going to be out for the next season? I certainly wouldn't. And it is not as if this wasn't foreseeable.

Melksham needs to come out absolutely firing in 2017, and considering Simon Goodwin was behind picking him up, it also applies a little extra pressure to the start of his coaching career in 2017.

Again, I think you can only conclusively call the trade a mistake if you look at the first year of his contract in isolation and discount all the possibilities for years 2, 3, 4 and beyond. 

9 minutes ago, stuie said:

Use your brain for once mate. Nowhere have I defended illegal drugs being used. Think past your usual rage and disgust at anything to do with football and realize my point is about the implications this whole situation will have on club culture and the trust of leadership.

Simple bloody minds.

 

Take your opinions to James Hird ot me. 

Nobody tied these players down and forced Hyperdemic Needles in their arms. 

Signatures were written down by players who obviously did little research en masse

quite simple really. Don't sign your name unless you are dead sure...