POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[Yossarian 1,820]

Haha, Nashtrodamus you legend. Waking up to this news very hungover in Slovakia.

[What 18,810]

Haha, Nashtrodamus you legend. Waking up to this news very hungover in Slovakia.

Having visions of the film Hostel.........

[Perago Validus 164]

I noticed Lumumba was booed a lot early on. I don't recall that happening when we last played them. Anyone remember?

Yeah, to be fair booing being in the headlines has made everyone more aware of it. So they booed more and we where more aware of the booing.

Lets not mix things up, they're some unintelligent Collingwood supporters out there.

However, it was beautiful when none of the Collingwood nuffies were booing H when he was having his shot at goal in the last quarter.

We had broken them.

Soooo good.

[CBDees 3,167]

Totally agree, personally I'll only believe we've 'improved' until we win 2 in a row.

Improvement for me is measured from our mental strength as much as our statistical improvement.

We have improved particularly our ability to win away games.

Last year it was Adelaide: this year it was Geelong at the Cattery and today we beat the Mighty Pies at their home ground!

[Nasher 33,617]

Credit to Nasher for calling this when we were all slitting our wrists.

Gawn, Vince, Viney, vandenBerg and Jones all great.

Grimes terrible.

Nasher, please feel free to change your name to Nashtrodamus.

Heh, thanks guys. But my prediction was 50% out of spite and 50% the same gut feel I have most weeks which is usually wrong, which by my sums adds up to 100% arse. I'll take it though

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Watch Dawes closely. There was some perfect footage last week - he takes his eyes off the ball at the point of contact. Other times he fakes an effort. He has the marking yips. No confidence. Even his contested marks today from memory were chest marks - requiring pin-perfect delivery or a bit of luck.

He took a ripper in the last quarter that was above his head.

Sorry Dawes isn't Wayne Carey but when he plays his role, like he did today, we are a better side for it.

[Perago Validus 164]

We have improved particularly our ability to win away games.

Last year it was Adelaide: this year it was Geelong at the Cattery and today we beat the Mighty Pies at their home ground!

Totally agree.

However, imagine next week beating the Roos by four goals comfortably like its just a another win.

That happens, we've definitely improved.

It's not only a measurable improvement but a huge mental improvement.

Good sides are consistent! We aren't!

A good game every now and then isn't enough for me any more!

Call me greedy!

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

We beat Richmond.

We beat Collingwood.

We beat Geelong (at home).

We beat Gold Coast (with Ablett).

We beat Bulldogs.

Our season is ridiculous; but have we improved? absolutely. Why? Because we are actually beating some teams better than us.THAT's the difference to last year.
Just gotta nail those teams worse/equal to us.

Edited August 1, 2015 by The Song Formerly Known As

[Skuit 10,031]

Dawes describes himself as a battler, and that's what he is. In the last two weeks he's been back to his best - he's been holding marks, and he's used his strength to break tackles. If he can continue to do that, he definitely adds something to the side. No doubt it'd be nice if he could hit the scoreboard more, but I can live without that so long as he contributes in other ways.

Dawes takes a comparable number of marks to 'second tier' marking forwards such as Schulz, Roughead, Petrie et al. These players all take 4-6 marks per game on average (Dawes 4.7). Elite marking forwards such as Riewoldt and Cloke take in the order of 7-8 marks per game on average. When he was in poor form he still took a minimum of 2 marks a game.

The criticism of him goes beyond reasonable IMO.

Last two weeks? I assume you mean Brisbane and this week? I got hammered for quoting stats to criticise a player recently so it's hard then to argue against stats. But comparing his marks per game against second tier forwards is redundant to me when he's basically playing as a winger atm. And it's not the marks he takes that are at issue - it's the marks he drops. I'm late to the anti-Chris brigade and I'm not usually overtly critical. But when people use the word liability I finally understand it. It would be better if a true winger was playing the link-up player and we had another genuine key-position forward in his place.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

It will be grossly unfair to dump Michie next week. He needs a run of games. Others have been granted that for just as much output.

'Grossly unfair'?

It's not like we lost and we have 4 or 5 players lining up to be dropped.

If Salem is fit and ready to come back in, it's either Michie or Grimes, and at least Grimes got his hands on the ball while he was on the ground.

It will be disappointing, but not 'grossly unfair'.

I'm sorry. I don't want to keep bagging players, but Dawes was terrible. Took two contested marks in the last when it was pretty much over. The players look up now and actually look for another option when they see him leading at them. He doesn't take enough marks, impact the contests enough and rjay's right. His man usually gets the ball. I've watched Dawes closely for the past month and have decided we need another KPF. Pedersen is a better player than Dawes, but isn't as aggressive. Neither are consistent foils for Hogan though.

A lot of people don't like Dawes, and I definitely agree that he's a flawed player, but this is such a ridiculous post after today's game.

Dawes provided a huge workrate and today he didn't just drop marks. He provided strong leads (we're a crap running side so leading forwards is a plus). He positioned properly. He worked in tandem with Hogan. And then in the fourth quarter he held two strong marks - for a player who often drops them, those were signs of improvement.

He might not be the long-term CHF we'll need to make finals and contend again, but to slam him after today's game only shows your pre-judged dislike for him as a player and has nothing to do with how he actually played today.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Good win with nothing to be overly excited about. Pies were shocking.

Let's see if we can back it up next week.

Or at least stay competitive and not completely drop off in skill level.

It's all I ask for. For next week and until the end of the season.

Consistency in effort and general football skills.

Edited August 1, 2015 by stevethemanjordan

[Perago Validus 164]

We beat Richmond.

We beat Collingwood.

We beat Geelong (at home).

We beat Gold Coast (with Ablett).

We beat Bulldogs.

Our season is ridiculous; but have we improved? absolutely. Why? Because we are actually beating some teams better than us.THAT's the difference to last year.

Just gotta nail those teams worse/equal to us.

To be a little downer.

Last year we beat.

Richmond - made finals.

Essendon - made finals.

Adelaide (in Adelaide) just missed finals.

The level of team we beat isn't my issue, consistency is.

Ask North Melbourne fans what angers/frustrates them about their side.

It isn't the level they 'can' reach, rather their consistency of effort.

When we win when we should and beat those above us, we've taken the next step.

Until then we are very much in and around the bottom few IMO.

A good win shouldn't paper over the Saint Kilda & Essendon results, it should reinforce them.

[hemingway 7,631]

Very happy with the win but the pies were terrible. Worst performance I have seen from them, They were inept Their skills, game plan and intensity were rock bottom. However, it was good to see some outstanding performances from some of our players confirming our improve ment. encouraging win.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

'Grossly unfair'?

It's not like we lost and we have 4 or 5 players lining up to be dropped.

If Salem is fit and ready to come back in, it's either Michie or Grimes, and at least Grimes got his hands on the ball while he was on the ground.

It will be disappointing, but not 'grossly unfair'.

A lot of people don't like Dawes, and I definitely agree that he's a flawed player, but this is such a ridiculous post after today's game.

Dawes provided a huge workrate and today he didn't just drop marks. He provided strong leads (we're a crap running side so leading forwards is a plus). He positioned properly. He worked in tandem with Hogan. And then in the fourth quarter he held two strong marks - for a player who often drops them, those were signs of improvement.

He might not be the long-term CHF we'll need to make finals and contend again, but to slam him after today's game only shows your pre-judged dislike for him as a player and has nothing to do with how he actually played today.

Titan - his comments about Dawes go hand in hand with his defence of Michie, who he claimed had a 'decent' game while Dawes and Grimes were terrible.

He's not an astute judge of football.

[Pipefitter 2,168]

For me, the best part about this win (other then it being against the Filth) was that we played good, strong, team oriented football all day. Yeah there were a few silly errors but that's footy. Just like Round 1, against the Gold Coast, when they came at us we fought back and kept in front.

Great win, no AWESOME WIN!!!!!

What's his email address?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We made huge efforts to keep forwards forward of the ball. There was a stoppage on the wing in the first quarter where we would usually have Hogan or Dawes at the 50 and no one else forward of centre, but today we had Hogan deep in the 50, with Garlett and Dawes at 50. Clint Bizkit would have been impressed.

I would have been if I could see, Fox Footy zoom in so bloody close to the ball it's hard to know what's happening.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Clint Bizkit

[Skuit 10,031]

Hate to say it but they also gave us a leg-up at the selection table. Whether they underestimated us or just wanted to make a point regardless . . . we benefited.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Hate to say it but they also gave us a leg-up at the selection table. Whether they underestimated us or just wanted to make a point regardless . . . we benefited.

Inclined to think their arrogance cost them the game at selection. "Oh, it's Melbourne, a guaranteed win so we can finally drop Jesse White!"

"Oh, it's Melbourne, Elliott's not ready to come back but we'll make him the sub and he'll still find a way to kick 3 goals!"

[titan_uranus 25,043]

I would have been if I could see, Fox Footy zoom in so bloody close to the ball it's hard to know what's happening.

You'd have been proud.

Not only was there a definite concerted effort to keep forwards forward of the stoppages, when we were struggling our forward line was empty.

Edited August 1, 2015 by titan_uranus

[Je Roos Salem 661]

'Grossly unfair'?

It's not like we lost and we have 4 or 5 players lining up to be dropped.

If Salem is fit and ready to come back in, it's either Michie or Grimes, and at least Grimes got his hands on the ball while he was on the ground.

It will be disappointing, but not 'grossly unfair'.

A lot of people don't like Dawes, and I definitely agree that he's a flawed player, but this is such a ridiculous post after today's game.

Dawes provided a huge workrate and today he didn't just drop marks. He provided strong leads (we're a crap running side so leading forwards is a plus). He positioned properly. He worked in tandem with Hogan. And then in the fourth quarter he held two strong marks - for a player who often drops them, those were signs of improvement.

He might not be the long-term CHF we'll need to make finals and contend again, but to slam him after today's game only shows your pre-judged dislike for him as a player and has nothing to do with how he actually played today.

I thought Dawes was fairly good in the second half, but honestly he needs to bring an intensity all the time, not just when we're in front. It's like he only joins in when others are playing well. Also, most AFL-level forwards can mark on the lead with their arms in front of them, Dawes relies on chest marks (which are a lot easier to defend). He's capable of working hard and assisting players but he still looks very limited in what he can do

[Nasher 33,617]

Been reading the Collingwood board on bigfooty.

A ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My favourite quote: "We miss Cloke". No kidding!

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Hate to say it but they also gave us a leg-up at the selection table. Whether they underestimated us or just wanted to make a point regardless . . . we benefited.

I agree. White probably would've been a safer bet, and Reid was in the VFL and Goldsack withdrawn. Once McDonald got hold of Moore (in his 4th game or whatever) they were hapless. Still, I thought Pendlebury was unusually average, looked genuinely slow and got caught a couple of times. I seem to recall other clubs underestimating us in their selections

[What 18,810]

Hate to say it but they also gave us a leg-up at the selection table.

Well we have given about 7 or 8 teams a leg up at the selection table this year

A win is a win and this one was bloody awesome

[SaberFang 7,151]

I agree. White probably would've been a safer bet, and Reid was in the VFL and Goldsack withdrawn. Once McDonald got hold of Moore (in his 4th game or whatever) they were hapless. Still, I thought Pendlebury was unusually average, looked genuinely slow and got caught a couple of times. I seem to recall other clubs underestimating us in their selections

I reckon our boys deserve some credit here. They made a deliberate attempt to unsettle Pendles all day long. The coaching dept. clearly identified him as a key pillar to the Pies success and, cleverly, instructed our players to throw him off his game. Tagged by Vince, riled up physically by Jones, tackled by all and sundry.

[Deestroy All 14,266]

"Collingwood were terrible" yeah? And..?

Anytime we beat someone the majority of opinion is that team were terrible. Notice a theme?

Even when we lose, apart from maybe Freo and Hawthorn, the other teams haven't looked very good beating us.

We're getting the defensive thing right, and it makes teams look and play bad for big parts of games. Our problem has been with the ball and putting the score on the board.

Sure we're not lighting up the field and capturing everyone's imagination like the Bulldogs, but hey, we made them look terrible too.

We're still coming from a long way back, if you can't get excited or give us any credit for a 37 point win over Collingwood then you need a new hobby.