On 30/07/2015 at 23:44, Clint Bizkit said:

it will be interesting to see whether Lumumba gets booed by the Collingwood supporters (again).

No booing tomorrow they will take notice of Mr. Buckley and refrain.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:41, Fork said:

A strong argument from one of Australia's most intelligent indigenous commentators on real suffering, Dallas Scott:

"As Adam walks out for his next game, before making his way onto that perfectly manicured stadium lawn, I suggest he take a deep, slow breath and reflect upon the reality of his life. Rather than having to emerge from the sheds for the ‘coloured people’, kept separate from the white folks playing beside him, he will run out after being supported by his entire team, not kept to the back. When he is thirsty, he doesn’t have to take a drink at the appropriately labelled drinking fountain, set aside for only folks with his racial identity, but rather will be served like a prince, with a special servant whose only job is to provide refreshments for the thirsty players, regardless of their skin colour or heritage. As he drives his brand new sports car to training, where he looks around at the other players arriving in their equally expensive vehicles and stops to realise he is paid just as much as them, if not more, he should perhaps pause a moment and wonder about whether he is fighting a war that has already been won, and instead of complaining from his position at the top, realise how those on the bottom rungs might be sick of hearing him whinging and would much rather he just got on with life."

A bit more from the same commentator...

"If someone is genuinely looking for a discussion, they are easy to tell, but most people just want me to be the token black who validates their own feelings on the matter."

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:42, Barra17 said:

How can you say that? Jobe Watson was/is boo'd for good reason. Was it because he was white?

It comes down to the motivation for the booing, Jobe is boo'd to a small extent for potential PED transgressions, nothing to do with race, if you boo him you are supporting the thought that he took PED's.

When the booing intensified for Goodes was with each instance of him standing up for Indigenous Australians and pointing out the racism that still exists in society. There is no other reason for it escalating that that, therefore it was driven by race. People have jumped on the bandwagon for various reasons, but much like those who boo Jobe doing so in one voice against PED use, all who boo Goodes are doing so in support of the racial reasons for it beginning. It is impossible to distinguished a different reason when you join a pack.

It is a bit like joining a church because you like the signing, you aren't there for the religion but you are still supporting it just by being there.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:44, Clint Bizkit said:

it will be interesting to see whether Lumumba gets booed by the Collingwood supporters (again).

That is completely irrelevant.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:41, Fork said:

A strong argument from one of Australia's most intelligent indigenous commentators on real suffering, Dallas Scott:

"As Adam walks out for his next game, before making his way onto that perfectly manicured stadium lawn, I suggest he take a deep, slow breath and reflect upon the reality of his life. Rather than having to emerge from the sheds for the ‘coloured people’, kept separate from the white folks playing beside him, he will run out after being supported by his entire team, not kept to the back. When he is thirsty, he doesn’t have to take a drink at the appropriately labelled drinking fountain, set aside for only folks with his racial identity, but rather will be served like a prince, with a special servant whose only job is to provide refreshments for the thirsty players, regardless of their skin colour or heritage. As he drives his brand new sports car to training, where he looks around at the other players arriving in their equally expensive vehicles and stops to realise he is paid just as much as them, if not more, he should perhaps pause a moment and wonder about whether he is fighting a war that has already been won, and instead of complaining from his position at the top, realise how those on the bottom rungs might be sick of hearing him whinging and would much rather he just got on with life."

I would respectfully suggest to this bloke that 'Progress' is an unattainable goal that you continually strive for, not something that is accepted as 'good enough' compared to the mess that came before it.

The parents of a girl that called an indigenous athlete an 'ape' want that athlete to apologise for singling her out. And a great deal of people agree with them.

We have miles to go before we sleep.

No matter how good the car is that he is driving...

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:45, nrc73 said:

Not according to dozens of articles during the last week. Broad generalisations are the most important and effective response and therefore should be perpetuated as much as possible. You've put a balanced argument forward, but sadly that is not what has appeared en mass in the media.

They have taken it one step further and said if you support racists you are a racist, to me that may not be true, you may just be ignorant to the issue, which wouldn't be a surprise considering how much it is hidden and ignored in Australian society.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:47, rpfc said:

Boo him if you want but have a listen as to why your brethren are booing.

- They don't like him referring to Invasion Day on Jan 26th.

- They don't like that he singled out a 13 year old girl who called him an 'ape'

- They don't like that he won AOTY, seemingly, for that action

- In a cyclical argument, they don't like that he has 'made a thing' about being booed.

Explore the reasons why he gets booed and most are subtly, if not outwardly, about race.

He can call 'Australia Day' or 'The Day We Started A First Penal Colony' anything he wants - he is making a point we want to ignore and don't want to talk about. We should change the date. Hopefully a referendum on the republic happens in the summer in we can have it then...

The girl that called him an ape was failed by her parents, not Adam, some have an issue with how MCG security dealt with her afterward but that isn't Goodes' fault. Frankly, if you are blaming him for 'making a thing' of being called an ape while at work, maybe you should picture someone coming to your work and calling you an equivalent epithet (if there is one for you).

You don't have to like, I didn't have an affinity for the bloke previous to this mess but I am developing a respect and admiration for what he has put up with for the last few years that is manifesting now.

Boo him all you like, but justify it with cold reason and a fair mind and abandon the booing if you can't.

....and wasn't that taken totally out of context by many who have never bothered listening to or hearing the speech.

His acceptance speech is linked below along some further comments...I must be on the wrong track and unable to comprehend but I don't see anything divisive in this at all, he seemed pretty inclusive to me.

http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-australian-of-the-year-speech-turned-fans-against-sydney-swans-champ-but-is-it-really-divisive/story-fnia3v70-1227463023081

Free speech doesn't mean I can say anything I like without repercussions.

Primarily, it means I can say things without being incarcerated because someone else doesn't agree.

It also means I can say anything I like provided I don't incite people to violence.

It also means I can say anything I like provided I don't lead others into harm (physical, reputational, financial).

It's not open slather like many seem to think.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:51, Chris said:

It comes down to the motivation for the booing, Jobe is boo'd to a small extent for potential PED transgressions, nothing to do with race, if you boo him you are supporting the thought that he took PED's.

When the booing intensified for Goodes was with each instance of him standing up for Indigenous Australians and pointing out the racism that still exists in society. There is no other reason for it escalating that that, therefore it was driven by race. People have jumped on the bandwagon for various reasons, but much like those who boo Jobe doing so in one voice against PED use, all who boo Goodes are doing so in support of the racial reasons for it beginning. It is impossible to distinguished a different reason when you join a pack.

It is a bit like joining a church because you like the signing, you aren't there for the religion but you are still supporting it just by being there.

Did he get up and have a sook wanting to throw the towel in? Adam Goodes is only fueling it himself.

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:02, Barra17 said:

Did he get up and have a sook wanting to throw the towel in? Adam Goodes is only fueling it himself.

Relevance? Being boo'd for racial reasons is wrong, just because he gets upset does not make it right or make you more of a man for doing it.

That is one of the stupidest arguments I have read on this whole thing to date!

Jobe was booed for the drugs thing.

Harry is booed for "betraying" Collingwood.

Milne was booed for the rape/not rape thing.

Scully was booed for selling out.

And there are plenty of others, and they all tail off as the supporters get it out of their systems.

Even Nathan Buckley was booed half heartedly for a while in his last season as he experimented with diving for frees.

All because of deeds they did or were suspected of doing.

But this Goodes thing. It's not because of any one thing he's done (like staging). It's because he's an uppity n****r.

It's ugly.

  On 30/07/2015 at 22:19, Lucifer said:

An article by Tracey Holmes has prompted me to start this thread of support for Adam Goodes.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=new_post&f=2

Last night I watched the Magarook Football show. I am a fan of Goodes and support his stand but I never fully understood the issue. From the show I learnt:

- Until 1967 Indigenous Australians could not vote.

- Until 1967 Indigenous Australians came under the 'Fauna and Flora' Act. It pains me to even try and tell you what that means. But it means they were legally considered animals. I hang my head in shame over that. I now fully understand why words like 'ape', 'zoo', 'king kong' are so devastating for them.

- Indigenous Australians are still not recognised in our Constitution (this is in the process of being remedied).

- They feel racism differently to that of migrants to Australia because Australia is their Homeland and colonisation was forced upon them. (Before you jump on me for supporting this, I am the child of European immigrant parents so I know exactly how racism feels, for as long as I can remember even to this day. Racism is racism but I can now see how it is felt differently by Indigenous Australians.)

Of the more offensive suggestions put out by many media outlets, is that most Australians are ignorant, bogans, racist, stupid, etc., The reality is that most of us would like to be seen as educated & informed and sadly the information you've highlighted has not been put forward by the AFL, the media (Left or Right), and this is the part that bothers me the most. How can we come together without these items being brought into mainstream discussion? For me, Indigenous Australian of the Year has a role to inform and this is the part where the Left stifle constructive conversation by trotting out the line about "white people trying to put Goodes back in his box because he makes us uncomfortable".

This is rubbish. I was not uncomfortable with the way Goodes expressed how strong he felt when he became AOY - I just felt he missed an opportunity because he didn't provide a good platform for ongoing dialog about the issues and I keep thinking about all the public engagement (the Long Walk) and success that Michael Long has had since leaving the game in keep the issues on the radar in a constructive way.

Sadly, I think both sides have been guilty of being narcissistic for that reason this whole thing has lost it's value.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:28, praha said:

It truly is astonishing how dysfunctional the modern Left's definition of free speech is.

There is not "some form" of free speech. There is either free speech, or there is not. When you restrict it, you cause more harm than could possibly arise if you were to permit it.

"Progressive" restrictions on free speech during the Weimar Republic are eerily similar to the ones we have in place in Australia. And our response is to tighten the muzzle even more.

Let them speak so we can shout them down! Just as we are in the Goodes situation. This is a movement driven and controlled by the PEOPLE. And the people will win.

Free speech is an important pillar in a liberal, accepting society. Without it, we have no way to differentiate between the good and the bad, what's right and what's wrong.

The "right" shall speak, and those opposed shall challenged. That's how we evolve and improve.

It's ugly atm, but good will come of all of this Goodes situation. We will all be better because of it. A "boo" is harmless when you think about what genuine, literal racism is. He is still driving around in his sports car, earning a million bucks, living in Bondi. Let's get real here. He'll come out of this a better person with a little more perspective about the complexities of race relations and Australia.

Well said Praha

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:04, Chris said:

Relevance? Being boo'd for racial reasons is wrong, just because he gets upset does not make it right or make you more of a man for doing it.

That is one of the stupidest arguments I have read on this whole thing to date!

It is not all racial, whether you want to believe it or not. While some of it may be, it is the way he has gone about things. Singling out a 13 year old girl and making her write a letter to a grown man is a bit far don't you think? Even though what she did was wrong, it was the wrong way to go about it.

Aboriginal or not the bloke is booed because he isn't a likable football player. Players like Milne, Ballantyne etc. are constantly booed and they take it on the chin. Goodes gets booed and we cry 'racist'. It's a bit rich to be honest.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:41, nrc73 said:

Hear about the rule change where you're no longer allowed to take people out at the legs? He was one of the bigger offenders of doing that, but should be praised for bringing another rule into the game to make it safer.

Every club had multiple players who did that because it was within the rules at the time. Any player would have done it if it mean taking an opponent to ground whilst getting the ball for a clearance. Most back lines made an art of it to stop forward momentum. Yet no other player gets booed as much, as loudly, for as long as Goodes has. He's won two brownlows and multiple Bob Skilton medals for being Best & Fairest.

If a supporter doesn't like Goodes, at least they should have some valid reason to boo disproportionately, because the excuses are quickly becoming paper thin.

How many of you people of the runaway Goodes bandwagon put up Xmas lights and decorations armed with the knowledge your offending someone, or is that different?

Why then has Goodes only been booed since the AOY award? He was staging and eyeballing the umps a long time before that.

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:11, Barra17 said:

It is not all racial, whether you want to believe it or not. While some of it may be, it is the way he has gone about things. Singling out a 13 year old girl and making her write a letter to a grown man is a bit far don't you think? Even though what she did was wrong, it was the wrong way to go about it.

He may not have handled things perfectly, who has?

As I have said else where, if you stand and boo with the racists then you are validating their thoughts and condoning their actions. Like it or not that is what you are doing. Lie with dogs, expect to get fleas.

  On 30/07/2015 at 23:04, special robert said:

No doubt this blanket booers are all racists line makes you feel good.....all warm and politically correct...you are good people....all the rest of us who don't like the footballer Adam Goodes are bad racist people....it's a simplistic view. I'm bored with your outrage and juvenile arguments about racist Australians. Ok now over to you.....there will be a prize for the poster who expresses the most hearfelt righteous indignation at my total lack of understanding and cruel racist sentiments.

The only indignation will be the fact that you don't seem to be able to glean the idea that while the vast majority of those booing may not be racists, they are providing shelter and validation for those involved who are racist. And as I mentioned in one of the closed threads... please name me one single player in the history of the game who has received treatment of this nature on such a scale.

There is much much more to this than simply a dislike of the man; it is a mixture of a few racists, a few with a passionate dislike of the man and a vast majority of sheep who think it's great fun to join in with the mob, without a single care about the effect it is having on Goodes (and please don't give me the line about the girl that he pointed out... he wasn't to know her age at the time, and it was the media that exposed her to a ridiculous degree)..

This is bullying on a scale never seen before in any sport.

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:22, Al said:

How many of you people of the runaway Goodes bandwagon put up Xmas lights and decorations armed with the knowledge your offending someone, or is that different?

Well done, just overtook Barra for the stupidest argument to date!

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:02, Barra17 said:

Did he get up and have a sook wanting to throw the towel in? Adam Goodes is only fueling it himself.

Did he cop abuse on the same scale every time he walks onto a field? Would love to see how you would cope if you were in Goodes' position... I get the feeling you may have thrown the towel in a long time ago (I know I would have).

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:26, Chris said:

He may not have handled things perfectly, who has?

As I have said else where, if you stand and boo with the racists then you are validating their thoughts and condoning their actions. Like it or not that is what you are doing. Lie with dogs, expect to get fleas.

That is wrong though So you are saying that if I choose to boo him, I'm a racist because others are? That is exactly what is wrong with this whole saga.

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:18, Wiseblood said:

Aboriginal or not the bloke is booed because he isn't a likable football player. Players like Milne, Ballantyne etc. are constantly booed and they take it on the chin. Goodes gets booed and we cry 'racist'. It's a bit rich to be honest.

Ballantyne does not get booed like Goodes is being booed.

And why is he unlikable again?

  On 31/07/2015 at 00:22, Al said:

How many of you people of the runaway Goodes bandwagon put up Xmas lights and decorations armed with the knowledge your offending someone, or is that different?

Very very different... the Goodes thing is NOT about political correctness.