Flanker's Paradise

[leucopogon 1,519]

Flogging a bit of a dead horse here, but thought I'd go through and analyse the drafts of years gone by. When you look at it in the cold light of day, our drafting was so utterly deplorable between 2006-12 that it truly beggars belief.

Have a look at this (position of the player in brackets):

05 - N.Jones (mid), S. Buckley (mid/flanker), Bartram (flanker/mid)

06 - Frawley (kp), Petterd (flank), Garland (flank), Weetra (flank)

07 - Morton (flank), Grimes (flank), Maric (flank), Cheney (flank), McNamara (flank), Martin (ruck), Woenemirri (flank), Valenti (mid)

08 - Watts (kp/flank), Blease (flank), Strauss (flank), Bennell (flank), Jetta (flank), Bail (mid/flank), Jurrah (flank), McKenzie (mid)

09 - Scully (mid), Trengove (mid), Gysberts (mid), Tapscott (flank), Gawn (ruck), Fitzpatrick (ruck/kp), Joel MacDonald (flank), Newton (kp),

10 - Cook (kp), Howe (flank), Davis (kp), McDonald (kp), Nicholson (flank), Evans (flank),

11 - Taggert (mid), Tynan (flank), Sellar (flank/kp), Sheahan (flank), Couch (mid), Magner (mid)

12 - Toumpas (flank), Viney (mid), Kent (flank), M. Jones (mid), Terlich (flank), Stark (flank), Clisby (mid), Hogan (kp)

13 - Salem (flank), JKH (flank), Hunt (flank), Harmes (mid), King (ruck), Geourgiou (flank)

14- Petracca (mid), Brayshaw (mid), Neal-Bullen (mid), Stretch (flank), Oscar McD (kp), vandenBerg (mid), White (flank)

The thing that stands out to me looking at this list of names is the bizarre oversupply of flankers that we've drafted into this club over the years. Obviously there were hopes that some of these players would eventually turn into AFL midfielders (e.g. Jack Grimes, Cale Morton, Sam Blease) but clearly player development at the MFC has not been up to snuff.

When you look at who runs through our midfield in 2015, besides captain Jones, Father/son Jack Viney, and 1st year Brayshaw, it's a moneyball list of stop-gaps and who's who from other clubs:

Lumumba, Garlett, Cross, Vince, Tyson, Newton, Michie. While I admire them all and cheer them on always, they are a rag-tag bunch of discards and wantaways from other clubs, some of which couldn't get a look in at the more successful clubs. I guess its not a really big surprise why our team has been so bad. The core of a good midfield has to develop and grow together over a number of years, think Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Cox. What about Voss, Lappin, Black, Ackermanis. Or Lewis, Mitchell, Hodge. Try on Ablett Jr, Kelly, Bartel, Johnson and now the competition gold standard: Mundy, Fyfe, Barlow, Hill,

We haven't had the continuity and development of these other top AFL midfields. The only one who's been there forever is Nathan Jones, nobody else has stepped up to the mark to join him which is a sad indictment of our drafting and development (and of course bad luck).

The drafting false dawns that have blown up in our face, whether it was down to bad recruiting, bad luck or a combination of the two is amazing. Here I'm talking about the rebuild years between 07-09 that completely screwed our list forcing us into the infamous rebuild of the rebuild.

2007 - 3 picks inside the top 25 we take Cale Morton (a skinny running player, supposedly with good skills but he was not properly developed + quesitonable attitude = epic fail), Grimes (cruelled by injury early on but then completely failed to develop into an AFL mid), Addam Maric (a forward pocket).

2008 - another 3 picks inside the top 25 and we take Jack Watts (a skinny tall player who is tried in every position on the ground but cannot make any one of them his own), Blease (a selfish outside mid who constantly battled injury), and Strauss (a skilled flanker that was cruelled by injury).

2009 - should have seen us finally get it right with this time 4 picks inside the top 25 including a priority pick at #1. We end up with Tom Scully (an undersized outside midfielder who has done nothing at AFL level at both MFC and GWS), Trengove (a promising midfielder now cruelled by injury), Gysberts (another gymnasiophobic midfielder and ultimately a dismal failure), and Luke Tapscott (a flanker cruelled by injury).

There was another hiccup with the drafting of Toumpas instead of Wines in 2012 which has set our development as a competitive list back by a year but that topic has been done to death so I will not add further to that. Man, how it does anger me though.

The penny seems to have finally dropped since Jackson/Roos and their recruiting team have taken the reins. 2013 we took Christian Salem (but also picked up a virtual draftee in Tyson). Salem has me puzzled, I would have thought this kid had midfield written all over him, but I'm a little dismayed that he hasn't spent many minutes in there to this point. I truly hope that he will become a midfielder eventually, he ticks all the boxes, skilled, aggressive, committed. I wait in hope for him. Tyson was great last year but has gone backwards this year unfortunately, wish we knew why, surely he's carrying something.

And now this years we're addressing that gaping hole in our developing list having drafted 4 potential midfielders in Petracca, Brayshaw and Neal-Bullen, and vandenBerg plus Stretch as a potential outside mid/winger. Unfortunately two of these guys have already suffered injury woes but hopefully Neal-Bullen's is only a minor setback. If we can hang onto these guys and develop them properly I can honestly see our future, dare I say it, premiership winning midfield consisting of the likes of Tyson, Salem, Petracca, Brayshaw, and Viney. Add to this list one or two players each year through development of our current list (e.g. Kent, ANB, vanders, Stretch), shrewd trading (in the mold of the Tyson/Salem trade), and competent drafting and we can raise the level of competition for spots in that 3rd world midfield of ours. There's going to be a hell of a lot responsibility on Brendan McCartney's shoulders to get this part right and for Goodwin to hit the ground running 2017, but I'm feeling optimistic.

I think above all else, we need a change in luck. We sure as hell haven't had much of that over the past 10 years.

Go the mighty Demons!!!

Edited May 11, 2015 by leucopogon

[Lucifers Hero 39,853]

A lot of good work there leucopogon. I fear it is going to bring out all the Scully, Watts, Toumpas, Morton, Prendergast, Neeld haters and they will dump their negative stuff all over again and this will become a mega thread of discontent...

...maybe we can change the title of the 'Ollie Whines' thread and direct everyone to it.

[leucopogon 1,519]

Whatever you reckon is best. I apologize for not having considered the burden on the forum moderators dealing with the repetitive "Scully, Watts, Prendergast, et al bashing" that goes on in Demonland. Despite my post having a bit more analysis it is "bashing" just the same.

[dazzledavey36 54,948]

A great read but a damning reality..

[Wiseblood 24,637]

A lot of good work there leucopogon. I fear it is going to bring out all the Scully, Watts, Toumpas, Morton, Prendergast, Neeld haters and they will dump their negative stuff all over again and this will become a mega thread of discontent...

...maybe we can change the title of the 'Ollie Whines' thread and direct everyone to it.

How else would a thread like this go? It's not as if we've done the opposite. If someone wants to start a thread like this for the 700th time then it will turn into a negative fest which is to be expected.

[leucopogon 1,519]

Again, sorry for dredging this up again, I guess the take home message is:

2006-2013 was pure shyte

2014 we turned the corner

2015 the elevator is just lifting off the ground floor, with luck it won't break down before we reach the penthouse suite.

I would like to get other poster's thoughts on Salem and his lack of midfield time. Is this just a development of accountability thing, building of a tank thing, or is he yet another flanker in this flanker's paradise?

[Nasher 33,616]

Very few of those you've nominated as flankers were drafted with the intention of actually being developed in to flankers; most of them just ended up there due to not being good enough to start in their nominal positions. For example, Jetta was described by BP as a grunt inside midfielder, and Morton and Toumpas were elite running midfielders as underage players, and Sheahan was supposed to be a KPP.

Really I think the list of "flank" players amounts to a more convoluted way of saying we drafted too many crap players. I realise that's not the OP's intention, but that's what it boils down to for mine.

[Lucifers Hero 39,853]

A lot of good work there leucopogon. I fear it is going to bring out all the Scully, Watts, Toumpas, Morton, Prendergast, Neeld haters and they will dump their negative stuff all over again and this will become a mega thread of discontent...

...maybe we can change the title of the 'Ollie Whines' thread and direct everyone to it.

Sorry if I sounded critical and I should have acknowledged the positive analysis and conclusions.

[leucopogon 1,519]

Very few of those you've nominated as flankers were drafted with the intention of actually being developed in to flankers; most of them just ended up there due to not being good enough to start in their nominal positions. For example, Jetta was described by BP as a grunt inside midfielder, and Morton and Toumpas were elite running midfielders as underage players, and Sheahan was supposed to be a KPP.

Really I think the list of "flank" players amounts to a more convoluted way of saying we drafted too many crap players. I realise that's not the OP's intention, but that's what it boils down to for mine.

Thanks Nasher, I agree. It does boil down to exactly that, we've drafted so many players that were supposed to be running through the midfield that have either done nothing and been traded or delisted or we've had to play them on the flanks due to lack of development.

Was this because the players were never going to make it and we drafted badly, or because they could have made it but our culture/lack of development killed their careers?

Probably a mixture of both.

Edited May 11, 2015 by leucopogon

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Nice work Leucopogon

Agreed. We had our chances and Trashed them.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,223]

Again, sorry for dredging this up again, I guess the take home message is:

2006-2013 was pure shyte

2014 we turned the corner

2015 the elevator is just lifting off the ground floor, with luck it won't break down before we reach the penthouse suite.

I would like to get other poster's thoughts on Salem and his lack of midfield time. Is this just a development of accountability thing, building of a tank thing, or is he yet another flanker in this flanker's paradise?

I think Roos is developing Salem perfectly. He will go in the midfield eventually but maybe make the back flank his home with his superb attack on the footy and player as well as his great foot skills. Roos may see him as smaller for a mid but if he thought he was too small he wouldn't have drafted him.

I think this year is about development for Salem as well as using his assets where we desperately need the, next year will see him run through the middle a lot more.

[chook fowler 19,459]

Flogging a bit of a dead horse here, but thought I'd go through and analyse the drafts of years gone by. When you look at it in the cold light of day, our drafting was so utterly deplorable between 2006-13 that it truly beggars belief.

Have a look at this (position of the player in brackets):

05 - N.Jones (mid), S. Buckley (mid/flanker), Bartram (flanker/mid)

06 - Frawley (kp), Petterd (flank), Garland (flank), Weetra (flank)

07 - Morton (flank), Grimes (flank), Maric (flank), Cheney (flank), McNamara (flank), Martin (ruck), Woenemirri (flank), Valenti (mid)

08 - Watts (kp/flank), Blease (flank), Strauss (flank), Bennell (flank), Jetta (flank), Bail (mid/flank), Jurrah (flank), McKenzie (mid)

09 - Scully (mid), Trengove (mid), Gysberts (mid), Tapscott (flank), Gawn (ruck), Fitzpatrick (ruck/kp), Joel MacDonald (flank), Newton (kp),

10 - Cook (kp), Howe (flank), Davis (kp), McDonald (kp), Nicholson (flank), Evans (flank),

11 - Taggert (mid), Tynan (flank), Sellar (flank/kp), Sheahan (flank), Couch (mid), Magner (mid)

12 - Toumpas (flank), Viney (mid), Kent (flank), M. Jones (mid), Terlich (flank), Stark (flank), Clisby (mid), Hogan (kp)

13 - Salem (flank), JKH (flank), Hunt (flank), Harmes (mid), King (ruck), Geourgiou (flank)

14- Petracca (mid), Brayshaw (mid), Neal-Bullen (mid), Stretch (flank), Oscar McD (kp), vandenBerg (mid), White (flank)

The thing that stands out to me looking at this list of names is the bizarre oversupply of flankers that we've drafted into this club over the years. Obviously there were hopes that some of these players would eventually turn into AFL midfielders (e.g. Jack Grimes, Cale Morton, Sam Blease) but clearly player development at the MFC has not been up to snuff.

When you look at who runs through our midfield in 2015, besides captain Jones and 1st year Brayshaw, it's a moneyball list of stop-gaps and who's who from other clubs:

Lumumba, Garlett, Cross, Vince, Tyson, Newton, Michie. While I admire them all and cheer them on always, they are a rag-tag bunch of 2nd rate discards that mostly were not wanted by their original clubs or couldn't get a look in. I guess its not a really big surprise why our team has been so bad. The core of a good midfield has to develop and grow together over a number of years, think Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Cox. What about Voss, Lappin, Black, Ackermanis. Or Lewis, Mitchell, Hodge. Try on Ablett Jr, Kelly, Bartel, Johnson and now the competition gold standard: Mundy, Fyfe, Barlow, Hill,

We haven't had the continuity and development of these other top AFL midfields. The only one who's been there forever is Nathan Jones, nobody else has stepped up to the mark to join him which is a sad indictment of our drafting and development (and of course bad luck).

The drafting false dawns that have blown up in our face, whether it was down to bad recruiting, bad luck or a combination of the two is amazing. Here I'm talking about the rebuild years between 07-09 that completely screwed our list forcing us into the infamous rebuild of the rebuild.

2007 - 3 picks inside the top 25 we take Cale Morton (a skinny running player, supposedly with good skills but he was not properly developed + quesitonable attitude = epic fail), Grimes (cruelled by injury early on but then completely failed to develop into an AFL mid), Addam Maric (a forward pocket).

2008 - another 3 picks inside the top 25 and we take Jack Watts (a skinny tall player who is tried in every position on the ground but cannot make any one of them his own), Blease (a selfish outside mid who constantly battled injury), and Strauss (a skilled flanker that was cruelled by injury).

2009 - should have seen us finally get it right with this time 4 picks inside the top 25 including a priority pick at #1. We end up with Tom Scully (an undersized outside midfielder who has done nothing at AFL level at both MFC and GWS), Trengove (a promising midfielder now cruelled by injury), Gysberts (another gymnasiophobic midfielder and ultimately a dismal failure), and Luke Tapscott (a flanker cruelled by injury).

There was another hiccup with the drafting of Toumpas instead of Wines in 2012 which has set our development as a competitive list back by a year but that topic has been done to death so I will not add further to that. Man, how it does anger me though.

The penny seems to have finally dropped since Jackson/Roos and their recruiting team have taken the reins. 2013 we took Christian Salem (but also picked up a virtual draftee in Tyson). Salem has me puzzled, I would have thought this kid had midfield written all over him, but I'm a little dismayed that he hasn't spent many minutes in there to this point. I truly hope that he will become a midfielder eventually, he ticks all the boxes, skilled, aggressive, committed. I wait in hope for him. Tyson was great last year but has gone backwards this year unfortunately, wish we knew why, surely he's carrying something.

And now this years we're addressing that gaping hole in our developing list having drafted 4 potential midfielders in Petracca, Brayshaw and Neal-Bullen, and vandenBerg plus Stretch as a potential outside mid/winger. Unfortunately two of these guys have already suffered injury woes but hopefully Neal-Bullen's is only a minor setback. If we can hang onto these guys and develop them properly I can honestly see our future, dare I say it, premiership winning midfield consisting of the likes of Tyson, Salem, Petracca, Brayshaw, and Viney. Add to this list one or two players each year through development of our current list (e.g. Kent, ANB, vanders, Stretch), shrewd trading (in the mold of the Tyson/Salem trade), and competent drafting and we can raise the level of competition for spots in that 3rd world midfield of ours. There's going to be a hell of a lot responsibility on Brendan McCartney's shoulders to get this part right and for Goodwin to hit the ground running 2017, but I'm feeling optimistic.

I think above all else, we need a change in luck. We sure as hell haven't had much of that over the past 10 years.

Go the mighty Demons!!!

Let me guess - you have a government job.

[Chook 15,013]

Nice work Leucopogon

Agreed. We had our chances and Trashed them.

Flanked 'em, more like.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,223]

Let me guess - you have a government job.

Hey, spot the [censored]!

[Chook 15,013]

Let me guess - you have a government job.

Let me guess - you apply for benefits from people with government jobs.

[Qwerty30 196]

Again, sorry for dredging this up again, I guess the take home message is:

2006-2013 was pure shyte

2014 we turned the corner

2015 the elevator is just lifting off the ground floor, with luck it won't break down before we reach the penthouse suite.

I would like to get other poster's thoughts on Salem and his lack of midfield time. Is this just a development of accountability thing, building of a tank thing, or is he yet another flanker in this flanker's paradise?

2010 was a good draft considering we got Howe at (36ish) and TMac (50+) is an absolute gem of a steal given he is on All Australian form ATM. Too many people cloud their judgement because we took Cook in the first round.

And it's bit harsh to already write off later drafts as pure shyte when we took Kent and Salem that are part of our future.

But 2007,2008 and 2009 were a colossal waste particularly when you consider the players we could have taken but repeatedly comprehensively missed....and many of those were the midfielders we were screaming out for.

[leucopogon 1,519]

Let me guess - you have a government job.

Nice one chook, lol, I'm a casual employee/PhD student at a public university

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

So what you are basically saying is that our old recruiters are nothing but bloody flankers?

Not news to me.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

We've been spending most of our supporter lives living in a flanker's paradise...

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

So what you are basically saying is that our old recruiters are nothing but bloody flankers?

Not news to me.

You didn't edit the spelling TSFKA

[leucopogon 1,519]

2010 was a good draft considering we got Howe at (36ish) and TMac (50+) is an absolute gem of a steal given he is on All Australian form ATM. Too many people cloud their judgement because we took Cook in the first round.

And it's bit harsh to already write off later drafts as pure shyte when we took Kent and Salem that are part of our future.

But 2007,2008 and 2009 were a colossal waste particularly when you consider the players we could have taken but repeatedly comprehensively missed....and many of those were the midfielders we were screaming out for.

I agree 2010 netted one potential A-grader (TMac) and another serviceable flanker (Howe) but the thrust of my post was the dearth of midfield talent that we've drafted. It seems that our past recruiters were trying to be too clever by half in their strategy. And you're right, it was flippant of me to write off 2012 as pure shyte, as I'm a huge Kent fan, just hoping like hell he can build a bloody tank so he doesn't become yet another flanker. Then of course there was Jack Viney but he doesn't count because the recruiters didn't have to think about that one.

Anyway, here's hoping the future is brighter.

[chook fowler 19,459]

Nice one chook, lol, I'm a casual employee/PhD student at a public university

Enjoyed your analysis - well researched. your PhD should be of Nobel Prize standard.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Flogging a bit of a dead horse here, but thought I'd go through and analyse the drafts of years gone by. When you look at it in the cold light of day, our drafting was so utterly deplorable between 2006-13 that it truly beggars belief...

(EDITED OUT THE LENGTH)

Go the mighty Demons!!!

all jokes aside, great post dude. The most clear and concise damnation of how stupid we were with our decision making in the past, without going all over the top with emotion, yelling and screaming, and wrist slitting.

Edited May 11, 2015 by The Song Formerly Known As

[chook fowler 19,459]

Does leucopogon relate to your research - a white flowering plant is it not?

[chook fowler 19,459]

Let me guess - you apply for benefits from people with government jobs.

I wish!