Jump to content

John Burns, alleged racial abuse Friday night.

Featured Replies

What 'race' is a Muslim?

 

What 'race' is a Muslim?

And the point is? Whether racial or religious vilification, it is just not on under any circumstances. For the record, Islam is not just a religion, it is way of life, intertwined with a cutlure.

here is the Hun's take on it http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/aw-breakfast-co-host-john-burns-apologises-for-bachar-houli-terrorist-slur-he-cant-recall/story-fni5f22o-1227323935136

for those who don't know "Bulltish Artist of the Week" refers to a segment 3aw runs on Breakfast show hosted by burns and stevenson

burns was a guest of richmond at the game, invited by steve price a richmond supporter

he was seated with price with gillom mc seated behind and the informant seated somewhere in front who claimed he overhead a conversation

given this environment i find it hard to believe he would have called houli a terrorist

price says he had no recollection and he is a richmond supporter

anyway, all a bit strange to me

Why? Because you're an avid fan of his radio show?

I find it inconceivable that a person couldn't recall whether they said something of that nature. If he didn't say it, then there's no reason for Burns to offer an apology. If it was Joe Public, they would have been marched out of the ground, and been pilloried by all sections of the media.

The double standards stink.

 

Why? Because you're an avid fan of his radio show?

I find it inconceivable that a person couldn't recall whether they said something of that nature. If he didn't say it, then there's no reason for Burns to offer an apology. If it was Joe Public, they would have been marched out of the ground, and been pilloried by all sections of the media.

The double standards stink.

why? yes i suppose i believe burns. i don't think he is at all racist and the circumstances don't lend themselves to such a comment

i think something was heard, maybe misheard and maybe out of context....it happens

i think late on sunday burns was convinced to make a nothing statement in order to put the issue to bed

of course i could be mistaken, but what makes you so certain of his guilt? do you know something we don't?

He was actually enjoyed life too much and was known to turn up to "work" a little worse for wear.

Aha, a pity really. As a team they were good, haven't bothered much since he left the show. Personal opinion but I think the show is lame, obviously most radio listeners don't agree with me.


why? yes i suppose i believe burns. i don't think he is at all racist and the circumstances don't lend themselves to such a comment

i think something was heard, maybe misheard and maybe out of context....it happens

i think late on sunday burns was convinced to make a nothing statement in order to put the issue to bed

of course i could be mistaken, but what makes you so certain of his guilt? do you know something we don't?

No-one can be certain of anyones' guilt or otherwise, unless they were there. However, the point is well made. If what has been alleged was not said, then no need for apology and one would stand on that principle. Again, where the allegation made is so serious, you would think someone who is the subject of that allegation could recall whether they said it or not. Certainly Brendan Gale went public and attested to the integrity of his executive who made the allegation.

I am sorry, but I just don't buy the "I can't recall if I said it or not" defence.

I am ready to get howled down, but it is interesting to note, that someone having a private conversation, not yelling out a remark to the public at large, is eavesdropped and reported for it.

The context of the remark is unknown. For example what if the comment was " some people could call Houli a terrorist and that would be offensive", yet only part of it was heard by the Informant.

I haven't got the faintest idea what was said, only that I thought, what was forbidden, were offensive comments yelled out and directed to someone, but heard publicly.

I was unaware that even private conversations, that no one else heard, other than the Informant, including the CEO of the AFL, who was sitting directly behind the parties in the conversation, could nevertheless land you in hot water.

No-one can be certain of anyones' guilt or otherwise, unless they were there. However, the point is well made. If what has been alleged was not said, then no need for apology and one would stand on that principle. Again, where the allegation made is so serious, you would think someone who is the subject of that allegation could recall whether they said it or not. Certainly Brendan Gale went public and attested to the integrity of his executive who made the allegation.

I am sorry, but I just don't buy the "I can't recall if I said it or not" defence.

I think Burns is a lover of some of the fine wines. If he had several glasses, is it not possible that he would not remember a comment made to a mate, on a night where he may have had more glasses later and then 2 days later is accused of a making the offensive comment?

 

Aha, a pity really. As a team they were good, haven't bothered much since he left the show. Personal opinion but I think the show is lame, obviously most radio listeners don't agree with me.

it was certainly a better show when donoghue (connell) was there at 3aw, and when it was on 3rrr as LG&M, but still holds it's ratings.

I am ready to get howled down, but it is interesting to note, that someone having a private conversation, not yelling out a remark to the public at large, is eavesdropped and reported for it.

The context of the remark is unknown. For example what if the comment was " some people could call Houli a terrorist and that would be offensive", yet only part of it was heard by the Informant.

I haven't got the faintest idea what was said, only that I thought, what was forbidden, were offensive comments yelled out and directed to someone, but heard publicly.

I was unaware that even private conversations, that no one else heard, other than the Informant, including the CEO of the AFL, who was sitting directly behind the parties in the conversation, could nevertheless land you in hot water.

Redleg, If someone next to you at the footy turned to his mate and made a comment of that nature in reference to a Melbourne player, and you clearly heard what was said, what would your reaction be?

I thought that the Richmond official showed a lot of courage in the action that he took, and I'm disappointed in the outcome.


I think Burns is a lover of some of the fine wines. If he had several glasses, is it not possible that he would not remember a comment made to a mate, on a night where he may have had more glasses later and then 2 days later is accused of a making the offensive comment?

He was accused of making the offensive comment just after it happened. The "he may have been too drunk to remember" defence is pathetic.

And the point is? Whether racial or religious vilification, it is just not on under any circumstances. For the record, Islam is not just a religion, it is way of life, intertwined with a cutlure.

This point

Racial vilification is the term in the legislation of Australia that refers to a public act that encourages or incites others to hate people because of their race, nationality, country of origin, colour or ethnic origin.

This point

Racial vilification is the term in the legislation of Australia that refers to a public act that encourages or incites others to hate people because of their race, nationality, country of origin, colour or ethnic origin.

Exactly, race isn't a choice,

Religion is.

One chooses to believe a book that may or may not be written about a factual person.

One is being born with certain genetics.

Really really different.

Exactly, race isn't a choice,

Religion is.

One chooses to believe a book that may or may not be written about a factual person.

One is being born with certain genetics.

Really really different.

No it's not. The analogy is with Judaism. Not just a religion, but a way of life. You are certainly born to it.

Exactly, race isn't a choice,

Religion is.

One chooses to believe a book that may or may not be written about a factual person.

One is being born with certain genetics.

Really really different.

Vilification may have elements of both race and religion, they aren't mutually exclusive. As I mentioned earlier, racial and religious vilification can sometimes have blurred boundaries, such as when an Indian is called a Muslim terrorist in the street despite being Hindu. Not saying this is the case with Houli, but it's too simplistic to say racial and religious vilification are separate things.


No it's not. The analogy is with Judaism. Not just a religion, but a way of life. You are certainly born to it.

this does get quite somantic doesn't it.

some (many) would argue that homo sapiens sapiens doesn't have any races at all

the definition of what constitutes a "race" is much debated. it gets worse when you toss in dna genotyping

anyway, instead of talking about racial vilification it may be more appropriate (in many circumstances) to refer to ethnic vilification

Redleg, If someone next to you at the footy turned to his mate and made a comment of that nature in reference to a Melbourne player, and you clearly heard what was said, what would your reaction be?

I thought that the Richmond official showed a lot of courage in the action that he took, and I'm disappointed in the outcome.

I recall years ago at a Friday night game at the G, we were playing the Cats. At that time we had the Cockatoo-Collins boys on our list and both were playing that night. Certainly, their efforts were below par, but they were not alone, as we got smashed that night. 2 Melbourne members in front of me made comment to the effect of the boys going walkabout, as they all do. This was not broadcast news for the whole ground to hear, but I left the people concerned in no uncertain terms that what they said was wrong and inappropriate. 'All it takes for evil to prevail in this world is for enough good men to do nothing'

This point

Racial vilification is the term in the legislation of Australia that refers to a public act that encourages or incites others to hate people because of their race, nationality, country of origin, colour or ethnic origin.

Legislation also exists regarding religious vilification. Either way, your point is moot. Whatever anybody wants to call it, it is simply wrong and therefore unacceptable.

This point

Racial vilification is the term in the legislation of Australia that refers to a public act that encourages or incites others to hate people because of their race, nationality, country of origin, colour or ethnic origin.

And therein lies a large part of the issue. If (and none of us know the facts... not even mo64) the offending remark was made in a private conversation between two people that just happened to be overheard by one individual (no-one else seems to have come out over this despite there being others in the room, and I imagine in as close proximity). It is hardly a public act designed to incite people.

As I said in an earlier post, sit Burns down in a room with Houli and the person who reported the comment. Perhaps both the reported and the reporter need to be educated (and why has no-one questioned the sobriety of the reporter in the way that they have questioned it in Burns' case?).

And therein lies a large part of the issue. If (and none of us know the facts... not even mo64) the offending remark was made in a private conversation between two people that just happened to be overheard by one individual (no-one else seems to have come out over this despite there being others in the room, and I imagine in as close proximity). It is hardly a public act designed to incite people.

As I said in an earlier post, sit Burns down in a room with Houli and the person who reported the comment. Perhaps both the reported and the reporter need to be educated (and why has no-one questioned the sobriety of the reporter in the way that they have questioned it in Burns' case?).

might be wrong hardtack, but i got the impression they were not in a function room but in the stand seating outside the function area

not that it makes much difference though


A hypothetical.

Barry the Biddelonian bombs it in to the forward line. Vilification?

Barry the Biddelonian has been terrorising our midfielders. Vilification?

Barry the Biddelonian has trouble at the airport, he looks like a terrorist. Vilification?

Barry is a blond anglo saxon with a beard or Barry is of Lebanese decent and has a beard. Vilification both or only one?

We don't know what was said, we don't know what was heard or misheard. It was a private conversation, I think the apology was appropriate if Burns thought he may have offended someone, even though he does not know what it was that offended them. I would have preferred it to have been discussed in private.

If no one hears it is it vilification?

If the vilified person does not hear it are they vilified?

I once told a supporter that a comment they were making about an aboriginal player was inappropriate, many people heard what was said, when they repeated it I said that I would report them for anti social behavior, they stopped. The player did not hear the comments. If it stops is that enough? I think it is.

No it's not. The analogy is with Judaism. Not just a religion, but a way of life. You are certainly born to it.

You may have it thrust upon you from birth, true. But it's a choice to continue to believe.

Being born say black is not a choice.

A hypothetical.

Barry the Biddelonian bombs it in to the forward line. Vilification?

Barry the Biddelonian has been terrorising our midfielders. Vilification?

Barry the Biddelonian has trouble at the airport, he looks like a terrorist. Vilification?

Barry is a blond anglo saxon with a beard or Barry is of Lebanese decent and has a beard. Vilification both or only one?

We don't know what was said, we don't know what was heard or misheard. It was a private conversation, I think the apology was appropriate if Burns thought he may have offended someone, even though he does not know what it was that offended them. I would have preferred it to have been discussed in private.

If no one hears it is it vilification?

If the vilified person does not hear it are they vilified?

I once told a supporter that a comment they were making about an aboriginal player was inappropriate, many people heard what was said, when they repeated it I said that I would report them for anti social behavior, they stopped. The player did not hear the comments. If it stops is that enough? I think it is.

you left out "Barry the Biddelonian is a Terrapin" - LOL

 

A hypothetical.

Barry the Biddelonian bombs it in to the forward line. Vilification?

Barry the Biddelonian has been terrorising our midfielders. Vilification?

Barry the Biddelonian has trouble at the airport, he looks like a terrorist. Vilification?

Barry is a blond anglo saxon with a beard or Barry is of Lebanese decent and has a beard. Vilification both or only one?

We don't know what was said, we don't know what was heard or misheard. It was a private conversation, I think the apology was appropriate if Burns thought he may have offended someone, even though he does not know what it was that offended them. I would have preferred it to have been discussed in private.

If no one hears it is it vilification?

If the vilified person does not hear it are they vilified?

I once told a supporter that a comment they were making about an aboriginal player was inappropriate, many people heard what was said, when they repeated it I said that I would report them for anti social behavior, they stopped. The player did not hear the comments. If it stops is that enough? I think it is.

Something about drawing long bows comes to mind. In this case very long and verging on the ridiculous.

might be wrong hardtack, but i got the impression they were not in a function room but in the stand seating outside the function area

not that it makes much difference though

Yes DC, they were seated outside the room, but according to others on here, there were others including Gill Mc sitting close by.


Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Featured Content

  • PREVIEW: Geelong

    "It's officially time for some alarm bells. I'm concerned about the lack of impact from their best players." This comment about one of the teams contesting this Friday night’s game came earlier in the week from a so-called expert radio commentator by the name of Kane Cornes. He wasn’t referring to the Melbourne Football Club but rather, this week’s home side, Geelong.The Cats are purring along with 1 win and 2 defeats and a percentage of 126.2 (courtesy of a big win at GMHBA Stadium in Round 1 vs Fremantle) which is one win more than Melbourne and double the percentage so I guess that, in the case of the Demons, its not just alarm bells, but distress signals. But don’t rely on me. Listen to Cornes who said this week about Melbourne:- “They can’t run. If you can’t run at speed and get out of the contest then you’re in trouble.

      • Love
      • Thanks
      • Like
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • NON-MFC: Round 04

    Round 4 kicks off with a blockbuster on Thursday night as traditional rivals Collingwood and Carlton clash at the MCG, with the Magpies looking to assert themselves as early-season contenders and the Blues seeking their first win of the season. Saturday opens with Gold Coast hosting Adelaide, a key test for the Suns as they aim to back up their big win last week, while the Crows will be looking to keep their perfect record intact. Reigning wooden spooners Richmond have the daunting task of facing reigning premiers Brisbane at the ‘G and the Lions will be eager to reaffirm their premiership credentials after a patchy start. Saturday night sees North Melbourne take on Sydney at Marvel Stadium, with the Swans looking to build on their first win of the season last week against a rebuilding Roos outfit.
    Sunday’s action begins with GWS hosting West Coast at ENGIE Stadium, a game that could get ugly very early for the visitors. Port Adelaide vs St Kilda at Adelaide Oval looms as a interesting clash, with both clubs form being very hard to read. The round wraps up with Fremantle taking on the Western Bulldogs at Optus Stadium in what could be a fierce contest between two sides with top-eight ambitions. Who are you tipping this week and what are the best results for the Demons besides us winning?

    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • CASEY: Gold Coast

    For a brief period of time in the early afternoon of yesterday, the Casey Demons occupied top place on the Smithy’s VFL table. This was only made possible by virtue of the fact that the team was the only one in this crazy competition to have played twice and it’s 1½ wins gave it an unassailable lead on the other 20 teams, some of who had yet to play a game.

      • Clap
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • REPORT: Gold Coast

    In my all-time nightmare game, the team is so ill-disciplined that it concedes its first two goals with the courtesy of not one, but two, fifty metre penalties while opening its own scoring with four behinds in a row and losing a talented youngster with good decision-making skills and a lethal left foot kick, subbed off in the first quarter with what looks like a bad knee injury. 

      • Clap
      • Love
      • Thanks
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • PODCAST: Gold Coast

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 31st March @ the all new time of 8:00pm. Join Binman, George & I as we analyse the Demons loss at the MCG to the Suns in the Round 03. Your questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human.

      • Clap
      • Thanks
    • 69 replies
    Demonland