Bryce Gibbs?

Marc Murphy?

Daniel Wells?

Why would they frustrate me? They don't play for my team.

But from a neutral perspective, whilst they haven't fully delivered on their talent and I'm sure would be cause for frustration, they've all reached a higher level than Watts.

Bryce Gibbs?

Marc Murphy?

Daniel Wells?

A rather good touché, you could add Goddard if you ask Saints supporters

A rather good touché, you could add Goddard if you ask Saints supporters

Yes I'm sure they were torn up watching his best on ground performance in a Grand Final.

Goddard,..lol. You've got to joking. Goddard is a star.

Anyhow, Watts' performance absilutely deserves criticism and hopefully he can bounce back strongly.

Yes I'm sure they were torn up watching his best on ground performance in a Grand Final.

Goddard,..lol. You've got to joking. Goddard is a star.

Anyhow, Watts' performance absilutely deserves criticism and hopefully he can bounce back strongly.

Of course he deserves scrutiny - and I'm sure he'll keep learning with his coaches.

My frustration lies in that everyone says (thinks) he needs to be a more physical player....he's not, he's a highly skilled, creative finisher.

Really?

Care to identify the 'multiple' times?

Certainly.

Firstly, there was a contest on our forward flank with Watts and Talia (I think). Garlett was coming from the back and the ball was bombed in. Watts seemed to spot Garlett out of the corner of his eye and didn't go up for the ball at all. Subsequently, Talia took an uncontested mark and it looked absolutely pathetic. Of course in that instance, you'd expect Watts to go up and Garlett crumb, considering Watts was already at the contest and is the player that is 196cm?

Secondly, later the ball was bombed out of our forward line toward the wing and a Crows player (can't remember who) attempted to gather and fumble. Watts was quite close but instead of running at the player full pelt and attempting to tackle or at least put on some real pressure, hung back in a fashion we often see from him and stuck the hands out. Not very effective.

If you like, I'll watch the replay and give you more, but they are the ones that stick out in my mind.

Yes I'm sure they were torn up watching his best on ground performance in a Grand Final.

Goddard,..lol. You've got to joking. Goddard is a star.

Anyhow, Watts' performance absilutely deserves criticism and hopefully he can bounce back strongly.

P-man, I have pointed this out before, read the Saints fan forums for the first 5 years of Goddard and you will see some interesting comparisons in diatribe, helped with me working with rabid Saints supporter during this period, would come in weekly and bang head on desk when somebody mentioned Goddard

Certainly.

Firstly, there was a contest on our forward flank with Watts and Talia (I think). Garlett was coming from the back and the ball was bombed in. Watts seemed to spot Garlett out of the corner of his eye and didn't go up for the ball at all. Subsequently, Talia took an uncontested mark and it looked absolutely pathetic. Of course in that instance, you'd expect Watts to go up and Garlett crumb, considering Watts was already at the contest and is the player that is 196cm?

Secondly, later the ball was bombed out of our forward line toward the wing and a Crows player (can't remember who) attempted to gather and fumble. Watts was quite close but instead of running at the player full pelt and attempting to tackle or at least put on some real pressure, hung back in a fashion we often see from him and stuck the hands out. Not very effective.

If you like, I'll watch the replay and give you more, but they are the ones that stick out in my mind.

You don't have to watch the replay and recount it to me - I saw the game and I'm sure you've got better things to do..

The first instance was clearly a communication issue and the second instance saw Watts out of the contest as he was too far back to impact.

He's still learning....90 odd games hardly make him a veteran, considering the horrific start and horrific development he's had.

He's not a crasher, DJ...if you're waiting for the big bump, you'll be waiting a long time. Absorb his skills, his creativity and the playmaker that he is.

Robbie Flower wasn't a "physical" player, but he was very courageous and always put his body on the line. He was also a superb tackler.

Watts' "efforts" regularly make him a liability.

There's one reason Watts will never emulate Jack Gunston. Gunston has balls.

I was bitterly disappointed to hear Watts talking a few weeks ago saying how happy he is to have Hogan and Dawes in the side to take the key posts as he is not big enough for the role......can someone get him a full length mirror.

Watts should be dropped for that pathetic performance yesterday. He is a total liability, no point having fantastic skills if you don't want to get involved and get the ball, he is always on the fringe, never at the bottom of a pack, he never imposes himself even when it is his turn. After 5 years he isn't going to change his mental approach, he is incredibly soft in all aspects of his game.

Vince - I love him.

Watts is a sort of prototype 4th forward.

Like a half decent small forward who can get the ball periodically with good finishing skills, he's possibly just a much taller variety (who doesn't know how to use his own height to advantage) His value is when we can create a decent match-up for him (usually against the lesser-light teams)

That's where he sits right now - he's never going to be the player that many want him to be and his draft pick number just clouds the issue even further.

I can see his value but it's certainly not high end. He'd struggle to get a game with a lot of the best teams and equally, he struggles to to have any sort of impact against the best teams - given his actual output up until now. But we could say that about many on our list.

Unless something changes in the not too distant future it will just continue to be a case of "what you see is what you get"

We can largely say the same sort of thing about Dawes - again, he's not going to get much better but until we can find someone who is better, he'll continue to play and he'll continue to be the player that he is now. Our depth in tall players is negligible.

Was that the one in the second quarter where the kick went behind him to two opponents and he brought it to ground on his side and dished to Hogan for a goal?

No , exactly as I described , with commentator Ricciutto saying " Watts should mark this" .

I only watched highlights from the game but what I did see was Watts pass to Newton for his first goal and also provide goal assists for both Hogan's goals. Not sure why there is all this venom towards him but I guess Roos will assess his contribution to team balance in a more considered manner than some posters on here?

Vince - cleaned Dangermouse up

looked like he was trying to mop the floor with him.

teaser :

how does a mouse grow into a cat, or should it try. maybe it should just become a bird instead? if so, which feathers would suit a mouse?

Watts doesn't sacrifice his body for his teammates. He makes token efforts. He picks and chooses his contests and the intent he'll give them. This has nothing to do with "crash and bash", but everything to do with competing.

Put simply, he plays on his own terms.

And if you can't see what he does, or doesn't do, I suspect you've never played footy at any level.

I suspect one could almost call it a selfish attitude.... in the scheme of how we all expect the game to be played

thinks about himself first, rather than what he could do & will do for the teams sake, at his own thoughts expence. a sacrificial act. honor bravery courage under fire.

these are the things which inspire us to rise above our fear

I just wonder what it is that will inspire young Jack to do so?

As I read yesterday in one of the commentaries, you need courage, toughness and intensity to play AFL footy. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Jack does not have those qualities. So really nothing will change, until there is such competition for spots that Jack cannot be retained just because he has a beautiful kick or creativity. He would not get a game in many sides. And I like Jack and want him to succeed. However mid twenties, 6 years down the track, I am reconciled with the view that nothing will change. However, lets reevaluate at season end.

Of course he deserves scrutiny - and I'm sure he'll keep learning with his coaches.

My frustration lies in that everyone says (thinks) he needs to be a more physical player....he's not, he's a highly skilled, creative finisher.

Robbie Flower wasn't a "physical" player, but he was very courageous and always put his body on the line. He was also a superb tackler.

Watts' "efforts" regularly make him a liability.

There's one reason Watts will never emulate Jack Gunston. Gunston has balls.

I was bitterly disappointed to hear Watts talking a few weeks ago saying how happy he is to have Hogan and Dawes in the side to take the key posts as he is not big enough for the role......can someone get him a full length mirror.

Watts should be dropped for that pathetic performance yesterday. He is a total liability, no point having fantastic skills if you don't want to get involved and get the ball, he is always on the fringe, never at the bottom of a pack, he never imposes himself even when it is his turn. After 5 years he isn't going to change his mental approach, he is incredibly soft in all aspects of his game.

It seems to me, We aren't talking about Watts so much, as the way he plays the game, & more-so we are channeling our frustrations about the direction our game is being taken, by todays coaches & administrators?

some don't care if the game gradually softens, content in the finer details they witness... whilst others want & crave the truly physically Inspirational acts of courage in danger.

Me personally, I deeply protest the loss of the hard physical style of the game. not so much the hits behind play, but the Acts of Valor for the team & for the scream of the loving supporters.

... to me, the game has lost that inspiring sparkle, as it has turned out now.