Changes for Round 2

[Fat Tony 4,572]

harm it, or just change it, possibly for the better? One would think having your best forward in the forwardline is a good thing

Definitely harm it. Modern day forwards need to be both good in the air and on the ground. Dawes is neither. He is a big body who tries hard, plays smart and is aggressive. But he lacks speed to get separation from his man, drops too many marks and is out of the contest once the ball hits the deck. He is also inflexible and hasn't demonstrated the ability to play as a second ruck.

[P-man 13,309]

I'll be disappointed to see Kent dropped, especially after taking an elbow to the face and playing out the rest of the game like the black knight (disagree that he was "shaken up", he seemed anything but). But I'm resigned to the fact that whoever gets dropped there will be disappointment. Kent, JKH and Garlett are the new three amigos.

Going like for like, Frosty might actually end up being the unlucky one, the problem being that Frost is more versatile in where he can be played and has that amazing speed for a big man, but Dawes also has the tank to get around the ground. If you're looking at who is the better forward of the two, it's a fairly easy choice. Dawes just needs to be able to take on relief rucking duties, which neither he nor Frost are all that flash at. Frost like everyone played well but he made some poor decisions at times which could've been very costly. It's the little things that might split them apart.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

?

are you saying playing well performed players is not going to win games of football?

he earns his place and he is all upside

I'm saying you can just pigheadedly refuse to drop him without considering the fact he might be the one who has to make way for Dawes, because Dawes is more important and he is only a kid with plenty of time on his side

[Wiseblood 24,636]

I'm saying you can just pigheadedly refuse to drop him without considering the fact he might be the one who has to make way for Dawes, because Dawes is more important and he is only a kid with plenty of time on his side

You still running with this line of thinking?

Delusional. Roos proved you wrong last week and he'll do it again. If Brayshaw goes for Dawes then I'll back Roos just as I will if Brayshaw stays and Dawes doesn't play. The win on the weekend is proof that the club has wins in mind at all times.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Definitely

[Moonshadow 16,572]

Great position to be in, but I think it will come down to match ups and injuries (if any) as to whether Dawes or Vince play. I can see the positives for them being included, yet am loath to see a winning team changed.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

You still running with this line of thinking?

Delusional. Roos proved you wrong last week and he'll do it again. If Brayshaw goes for Dawes then I'll back Roos just as I will if Brayshaw stays and Dawes doesn't play. The win on the weekend is proof that the club has wins in mind at all times.

Wow, you've elevated the discussion from Matt Jones to Chris Dawes. Madness. What's next, I don't care if Nathan Jones is fit we must play Brayshaw.

Don't worry, there isn't a snowlake's chance in hell that Dawes will not be brought in

[daisycutter 28,722]

I'm saying you can just pigheadedly refuse to drop him without considering the fact he might be the one who has to make way for Dawes, because Dawes is more important and he is only a kid with plenty of time on his side

i admit it is a hard choice for someone to make way for dawes

i'd have jkh or frost before gus, but it's not straight forward

might be made easy if someone doesn't come up due to injury

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Wow, you've elevated the discussion from Matt Jones to Chris Dawes. Madness. What's next, I don't care if Nathan Jones is fit we must play Brayshaw.

Don't worry, there isn't a snowlake's chance in hell that Dawes will not be brought in

I'm not saying there isn't.

But this infatuation you have with the idea that playing a kid like Brayshaw means we aren't focusing on winning games is laughable.

[What 18,810]

Perhaps Angus will be sent back to play full game at Casey

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-04-07/brayshaw-to-be-managed-in-2015

[Moonshadow 16,572]

Wow, you've elevated the discussion from Matt Jones to Chris Dawes. Madness. What's next, I don't care if Nathan Jones is fit we must play Brayshaw.

Don't worry, there isn't a snowlake's chance in hell that Dawes will not be brought in

Like the confidence Curry, but you don't have a good track record with big calls of late.

If Roos is happy with Brayshaw's game and he pulls up well this week, I would've thought he'd keep a place against GWS and maybe jkh, Toump or (dare I say it) Frost make way for Dawes. The Tues training thread mentions that Viney is ginger and on lighter duties, so that may become the opening. I prefer stability to a team after a win but also see the value of Dawes playing alongside Hogan.

Certainly a wonderful position to be in!

[Gator 16,921]

Some are overthinking things...

Toumpas is clearly not a starting back 6 player, as there are others ahead of him.

Toumpas is clearly not a starting forward, as there are others ahead of him.

Toumpas is clearly down the pecking order in the midfield.

Toumpas was named as the sub, which suggests he was the 22 player chosen, or close to it.

Toumpas is the first player to make way for others.

Dawes plays if the MC thinks we're more likely to win with him in the team. He doesn't if we don't.

It's pretty simple really.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I'm not saying there isn't.

But this infatuation you have with the idea that playing a kid like Brayshaw means we aren't focusing on winning games is laughable.

It's priority 2 is all I'm saying. Yes, it will be rough if he gets dropped after a decent debut but it's priority 2. If it's him or Dawes the decision making process has a duration of about 1.5 seconds

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Like the confidence Curry, but you don't have a good track record with big calls of late.

If Roos is happy with Brayshaw's game and he pulls up well this week, I would've thought he'd keep a place against GWS and maybe jkh, Toump or (dare I say it) Frost make way for Dawes. The Tues training thread mentions that Viney is ginger and on lighter duties, so that may become the opening. I prefer stability to a team after a win but also see the value of Dawes playing alongside Hogan.

Certainly a wonderful position to be in!

so in other words you agree with me in that Dawes is coming in

just thought you would sneak a little insult jab at same time as agreeing with me

grow up

[boydie 653]

Toumpas had limited game time but he will clearly make way for Vince.

Dawes will come in, but who goes out wont be a like for like and will be very unlucky. THIS is a good thing for us, I'm expecting it to be Brayshaw, Kent or JKH whos is unlucky this week... my gut feel is Brayshaw as JKH and Kent have more stamina to get through a game at this early stage of all their respective careers.

I'm expecting Brayshaw will be dissapointed and I wouldn't want to be going up against him as Casey's opponent.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Dawes plays if the MC thinks we're more likely to win with him in the team. He doesn't if we don't.

It's pretty simple really.

Yes well maybe we come to footy discussion sites to talk about what WE think as we are not able to read the minds of the MC and gameday is several days off

Not to mention the MC has been wrong plenty and plenty and plenty of times in the past

[rjay 24,176]

I'll be disappointed to see Kent dropped, especially after taking an elbow to the face and playing out the rest of the game like the black knight (disagree that he was "shaken up", he seemed anything but). But I'm resigned to the fact that whoever gets dropped there will be disappointment. Kent, JKH and Garlett are the new three amigos.

Going like for like, Frosty might actually end up being the unlucky one, the problem being that Frost is more versatile in where he can be played and has that amazing speed for a big man, but Dawes also has the tank to get around the ground. If you're looking at who is the better forward of the two, it's a fairly easy choice. Dawes just needs to be able to take on relief rucking duties, which neither he nor Frost are all that flash at. Frost like everyone played well but he made some poor decisions at times which could've been very costly. It's the little things that might split them apart.

It's not like for like 'P-man', Frost is the forward/2nd ruck. Dawes can't play this role so if Frost goes out it will be for Spencer, Gawn or Pedders and that's not going to happen.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Yes well maybe we come to footy discussion sites to talk about what WE think as we are not able to read the minds of the MC and gameday is several days off

Not to mention the MC has been wrong plenty and plenty and plenty of times in the past

Just like you mate.

I'm pretty convinced Dawes will play, although it's clear now that we are able to select a side based far more on winning than on development these days. The kids can develop at Casey rather than in the senior side at the expense of being competitive.

[Pates 9,551]

Just like you mate.

I'm pretty convinced Dawes will play, although it's clear now that we are able to select a side based far more on winning than on development these days. The kids can develop at Casey rather than in the senior side at the expense of being competitive.

That's a massive difference to what we've had for so long, and it's why the best clubs seem to continue to get good draftees. Fact is if you're getting picked in the top 20-30 chances are you've got a fair amount of talent, but lower clubs such as ourselves, bulldogs, Saints, GWS, Suns etc have had no choice but to send these young players into the lions den and they get mauled. Whereas the Cats, Swans, Hawks etc are able to get these players and if they play a game in the first year they are doing well and they aren't expected to make an immediate impact.

It's what Roos has been trying to create with us, no expectations on young players. They play when they earn their stripes, they aren't expected to get 25+ possies and dominate. They develop at their own pace.

[nutbean 8,837]

Definitely harm it. Modern day forwards need to be both good in the air and on the ground. Dawes is neither. He is a big body who tries hard, plays smart and is aggressive. But he lacks speed to get separation from his man, drops too many marks and is out of the contest once the ball hits the deck. He is also inflexible and hasn't demonstrated the ability to play as a second ruck.

Gee definitely is a big call.

He absolutely lacked speed to get separation last season because we were taking forever to get the ball into the forward line and the opposition had an eternity to push numbers back. He did drop many marks but he is rarely beaten in the air and at last we have one class crumber that may benefit from spillages he creates. He has a great defensive mindset which will always make him a popular choice with Roos

I think Rjay was suggesting Dawes was now down the pecking order behind Hogan and Watts - I don't think Dawes is a number one forward and I do rather like the idea of the third tall defender having to mind Dawes.

That leaves one further benefit - Vandenberg is a midfielder who played the role forward on the weekend - he showed that he has a rather nice pair of hands on him - so it gives another marking option down forward.

I would be very surprised if Dawes did not walk straight back into the seniors this week.

[P-man 13,309]

It's not like for like 'P-man', Frost is the forward/2nd ruck. Dawes can't play this role so if Frost goes out it will be for Spencer, Gawn or Pedders and that's not going to happen.

DIsagree. It's not exactly like for like as I pointed out, but Frost is a hell of a lot closer to Dawes than he is to Pencil, in every facet. Not sure how much time Frost actually ended up in the ruck but he won a total of 4 hitouts. I can't see Dawes being much worse, and he is the more experienced forward who will provide the more formidable foil for Hogan in the forwardline. I really think we are debating what will be a formality, that is Dawes returning to the side. Someone has to make way and dropping one of the small mid/fwds runs the risk of going in too tall.

[Fat Tony 4,572]

Gee definitely is a big call.

He absolutely lacked speed to get separation last season because we were taking forever to get the ball into the forward line and the opposition had an eternity to push numbers back. He did drop many marks but he is rarely beaten in the air and at last we have one class crumber that may benefit from spillages he creates. He has a great defensive mindset which will always make him a popular choice with Roos

I think Rjay was suggesting Dawes was now down the pecking order behind Hogan and Watts - I don't think Dawes is a number one forward and I do rather like the idea of the third tall defender having to mind Dawes.

That leaves one further benefit - Vandenberg is a midfielder who played the role forward on the weekend - he showed that he has a rather nice pair of hands on him - so it gives another marking option down forward.

I would be very surprised if Dawes did not walk straight back into the seniors this week.

What I said was that bringing Dawes in for a small would "definitely harm the balance of the side". And maybe part of the reason why we didn't go forward quickly last year was Dawes not being able to get separation and because we didn't have confidence he would hold his marks.

[torpedo 33]

There is always room for improvement and it is a given that if fit then Dawes and Vince come in.

Toumpus, Brayshaw, Kent, Frost & JKH appear to be the most likely to come under consideration.

For mine, Frost goes out for Dawes. I commend Frost's effort but he did not kick goals, take marks or bring any physical presence, all of which Dawes does and does well. Dawes has rucked plenty over the journey and is no worse at it than Frost. Frost currently seems to be playing somewhere between a Ruckman and a KPF and is not particularly adept at both, a bit reminiscent of Paul Johnson. Currently, I am not even sure if he is an improvement on Cam Pedersen. I'm glad we got him as he looks capable as a Defender but I think he is down the pecking order when it comes to playing as a KPF.

On form alone, the Toump has to go. I would like to see him given a consistent run at it because it is clearly a confidence issue but you cannot go gifting him games at the expense of more deserving & in-form players.

I really liked Brayshaw's game and think he looks a good bet for Rising Star. 9 tackles is huge.

I also liked Salem's game, he didn't rack it up like we thought he might but he competed really strongly in one-on-ones and came out on top most of the time, which is far more important than getting kicks, they will come soon enough.

In: Dawes, Vince

Out: Frost, Toumpas

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Just like you mate.

I'm pretty convinced Dawes will play, although it's clear now that we are able to select a side based far more on winning than on development these days. The kids can develop at Casey rather than in the senior side at the expense of being competitive.

how about giving it a rest for a post or two with snide imbecilic jabs, nobody wants to read it. how old are you anyway

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

You still running with this line of thinking?

Delusional. Roos proved you wrong last week and he'll do it again. If Brayshaw goes for Dawes then I'll back Roos just as I will if Brayshaw stays and Dawes doesn't play. The win on the weekend is proof that the club has wins in mind at all times.

in other words you will have a bet each way because you are petrified of saying something that a child like yourself will come out later and say nahnah i told you so.. so you post like a politician