35 minutes ago, old dee said:

It is not any of those we replaced Howe with Mr. Shadow.

it is Mr Kennedy.

My implication was that he is no longer needed Mr Old.

Kennedy is considerably cheaper and may well fill a need beyond the backline. Howe would either be another expensive Casey player or holding up the development of Hunt this year. Even worse next year. 

Do you not agree?

Lol. He's become a turnover merchant for them. One of my Pie mates was telling me today he'll be in the top three of their Best and Fairest. I told him that was more of an indictment on their season.

He's soft and lazy and simply doesn't fit the mould of player we're trying to foster at the MFC.

So glad I don't have to sit through his lazy chases anymore, which might I add, he was doing as early as 2013, but people looked past all that in favour of a highlights reel for dark times.

8 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

My implication was that he is no longer needed Mr Old.

Kennedy is considerably cheaper and may well fill a need beyond the backline. Howe would either be another expensive Casey player or holding up the development of Hunt this year. Even worse next year. 

Do you not agree?

No answer to your "do you still beat your wife" question Mr. Shadow.

The simple fact is we swapped Howe for Kennedy. One is playing at AFL level and the other at Casey and he seems  destined to stay there or he would have played last week in place of Garlett.

We lost on this deal no big loss but a loss just the same.

Edited August 22, 20168 yr by old dee

There's little doubt that Howe is playing better football. He's always been a skillful player and this season he's produced a greater level of consistency. The Howe we were getting was of little value to us though. He refused to pull his finger out and seems incapable of leadership which is what we needed from someone around his age. His Collingwood supporter/"I had a photo of Bucks in my wallet" reasoning for the move said something of his mindset and maturity. The question now remains as to how long he will be happy swallowing his pride and remaining a defender despite the promises of a forward position.

As to who won the trade, it has fluctuated. After we played Collingwood the first time this year and Kennedy had a day out, Pies fans were mourning the fact that they'd let him go. Now there's a change of heart. Kennedy certainly isn't dead weight. He can play a few different roles and his best games have been very good. The worst you can say is that he's handy depth which I'll take at this stage.

 

13 hours ago, old dee said:

It is not any of those we replaced Howe with Mr. Shadow.

it is Mr Kennedy.

Wrong. The most important part of the Howe trade from our perspective was pick 29 which we directly used in Howe's place to give to the Gold Coast when he decided he didn't want to join the Suns.

By trading pick 29 (the Howe pick) we were able to move up to the draft to secure Oliver. At our original pick #6, both our targets in Oliver and Parish would have been gone. The Suns took Callum Ah Chee.

There was also Kennedy, Toumpas and later picks exchanged in the mega-trade, but it most certainly wasn't a straight swap of Kennedy for Howe. 

Here's a direct quote from Josh Mahoney at the time, referring to the swap of draft picks with the Suns.

Quote

 

 

Melbourne have struck a deal with the Gold Coast Suns that sees them gain picks 3, 10 and 43 in this year’s draft, while giving up pick 6, pick 29, and their 2016 first-round draft pick.

“Importantly, the deal signed this morning was the original deal proposed with Gold Coast involving Jeremy Howe. We have just replaced the Howe to Gold Coast component with pick No.29 – the pick we received from Collingwood in the Howe trade.

 

 

Edited August 23, 20168 yr by Sylvia Saint

13 minutes ago, Sylvia Saint said:

Wrong. The most important part of the Howe trade from our perspective was pick 29 which we directly used in Howe's place to give to the Gold Coast when he decided he didn't want to join the Suns.

By trading pick 29 (the Howe pick) we were able to move up to the draft to secure Oliver. At our original pick #6, both our targets in Oliver and Parish would have been gone. The Suns took Callum Ah Chee.

There was also Kennedy, Toumpas and later picks exchanged in the mega-trade, but it most certainly wasn't a straight swap of Kennedy for Howe. 

Here's a direct quote from Josh Mahoney at the time, referring to the swap of draft picks with the Suns.

Still does not alter the fact that they got Howe and we ended up with Kennedy.

We got the poorer of the two.

12 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

My implication was that he is no longer needed Mr Old.

Kennedy is considerably cheaper and may well fill a need beyond the backline. Howe would either be another expensive Casey player or holding up the development of Hunt this year. Even worse next year. 

Do you not agree?

How can anyone answer that?

Yes - I do not agree

No - I do not agree

Yes - I agree

No - I agree

Does that not help?

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

Still does not alter the fact that they got Howe and we ended up with Kennedy.

We got the poorer of the two.

It does alter the fact quite significantly I would have thought. You're still talking like it was a straight swap. It wasn't.

1 minute ago, Sylvia Saint said:

It does alter the fact quite significantly I would have thought. You're still talking like it was a straight swap. It wasn't.

Ok so you want to say  it was not a direct swap.

But the result was the Pies got Howe and we ended up with Kennedy.

The pies got the better player.

 

54 minutes ago, ManDee said:

How can anyone answer that?

Yes - I do not agree

No - I do not agree

Yes - I agree

No - I agree

Does that not help?

How about "a definite maybe to a possible yes"?

20 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

How about "a definite maybe to a possible yes"?

or even a % type agree for the mathematicians amongst us

49 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

How about "a definite maybe to a possible yes"?

Would a "probably it might or might not "" suffice?

Edited August 23, 20168 yr by Redleg

People actually miss this one-trick pony? Must be as blinded by his speccies as Collingwood supporters.

Half-assed, lazy, low footy IQ, zero leadership and thinks he knows better than the coaches. Why would you want that at a club trying to build a culture of success?

1 minute ago, SaberFang said:

People actually miss this one-trick pony? Must be as blinded by his speccies as Collingwood supporters.

Half-assed, lazy, low footy IQ, zero leadership and thinks he knows better than the coaches. Why would you want that at a club trying to build a culture of success?

I for one have never said That I want to turn back the clock SF.

Just discussing the relative abilities of Howe vs Kennedy.

On that subject IMO Howe is the better player.

18 minutes ago, old dee said:

I for one have never said That I want to turn back the clock SF.

Just discussing the relative abilities of Howe vs Kennedy.

On that subject IMO Howe is the better player.

think you need to give kennedy some more time, od. his best was quite good and he is not as established yet as howe. patience grasshopper

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

think you need to give kennedy some more time, od. his best was quite good and he is not as established yet as howe. patience grasshopper

Too short dc. I have said this before but if you are short in AFL in 2016 you need to be very good.

He is not very good and IMO never will be.

At best he will be a fill in player.

If he was any good he would have been the automatic replacement for Garlett last Sunday but did not get a look in.

21 minutes ago, old dee said:

I for one have never said That I want to turn back the clock SF.

Just discussing the relative abilities of Howe vs Kennedy.

On that subject IMO Howe is the better player.

Disagree there Old, I think of the two BenKen is the better player he is just not consistent at this stage. Getting dropped a couple  of times will hopefully wake him up and he will see that he is good enough but needs to be more consistent.

There may have been some, but I can't remember any games where Jeremy was up the top of our better players, he just went put and played the same old, same old every week with the occasional speccie. I remember one game at Etihad where they pushed him forward and I expected he'd really shine there, he was terrible and just went through the motions, he had no idea where to lead and no real energy in his play.

 

1 minute ago, Dante said:

Disagree there Old, I think of the two BenKen is the better player he is just not consistent at this stage. Getting dropped a couple  of times will hopefully wake him up and he will see that he is good enough but needs to be more consistent.

There may have been some, but I can't remember any games where Jeremy was up the top of our better players, he just went put and played the same old, same old every week with the occasional speccie. I remember one game at Etihad where they pushed him forward and I expected he'd really shine there, he was terrible and just went through the motions, he had no idea where to lead and no real energy in his play.

 

We are just going to disagree on this one Dante.

See my comment to dc. Too short

Dont miss this show pony one bit.  His stats look good this season, but he still doesn't impact games and never will.

59 minutes ago, old dee said:

Too short dc. I have said this before but if you are short in AFL in 2016 you need to be very good.

He is not very good and IMO never will be.

At best he will be a fill in player.

If he was any good he would have been the automatic replacement for Garlett last Sunday but did not get a look in.

all i'm saying od, is hold your decision for another 12 months.

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

all i'm saying od, is hold your decision for another 12 months.

It is made dc However I am happy for you to say I told you so this time next year

54 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Dont miss this show pony one bit.  His stats look good this season, but he still doesn't impact games and never will.

Didn't watch the Pies on the weekend ? He was very good and had a significant impact. (18 marks worth of impact)

I always believed that Howe had the ability to be a footballer but was just too lazy - picked and choosed which contests to go to. I laughed when the Pies suggested he would be their "Gunston" as Gunston is one of the hardest working players in the AFL.

However, he has had a good season as a half back and to say otherwise smacks of pure denigration based on him not being at our club anymore.   

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

It is made dc However I am happy for you to say I told you so this time next year

i'm not saying one way or the other, just that it's premature to pull the trigger now

as i have said before, his good is good enough to be best 22, needs more consistency

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i'm not saying one way or the other, just that it's premature to pull the trigger now

as i have said before, his good is good enough to be best 22, needs more consistency

I must have missed his best games then dc, in the ones I have seen his good games have been a quarter then next to zip for the balance of the game.

3 hours ago, old dee said:

Ok so you want to say  it was not a direct swap.

But the result was the Pies got Howe and we ended up with Kennedy.

The pies got the better player.

 

And we got Oliver........