I am with Barra17 on this one. We have added Frost, Salem and HL into our backline, Hogan and Garlett into our forward structure and we can look forward to an improved midfield with more depth, not only due to improvements through Viney, Mitchie etc, but some mature bodies through Newton and Vandenberg. This and the second year under Roos is not optimistic; it is realistic. Next year, with Petracca and Brayshaw in the mix, I am hoping for top four!

Newton, garlett, michie, couldn't get a game in the afl last year, frost was dropped from a bottom 4 team at times, and vandenberg is from the neafl which is the equivalent standard of local footy in vic.

Newton, garlett, michie, couldn't get a game in the afl last year, frost was dropped from a bottom 4 team at times, and vandenberg is from the neafl which is the equivalent standard of local footy in vic.

I think in a year or two you will be changing your opinion about a few of those players, especially Frost.

Eight wins.. I expect to get back to where we were before Neeld took over..

Far out this is depressing. Season hasn't even started and people are thinking a pass mark is losing 16 games?!

We really should have won 6 in 2014 given how many close ones we were in. I know it's easy to we should have, but I believe that

So saying 6 is a pass is expecting not much improvement at all. Surely we have more expectation than that?

Anything less that 8 wins is not a pass for me. I'm expecting 8-10 wins. And it's not about saying which other teams won't improve, that'll take care of itself. There are so many surprises each year. Who would thought flag favourites west coast would not make finals. Or that we would beat the crows away etc.

We have a lot of middle tier players that should improve and are in their peak years watts howe garland grimes

And we have heaps of young talent that should naturally get fitter and better viney Tyson Salem etc

Go dees!

Far out this is depressing. Season hasn't even started and people are thinking a pass mark is losing 16 games?!

We really should have won 6 in 2014 given how many close ones we were in. I know it's easy to we should have, but I believe that

So saying 6 is a pass is expecting not much improvement at all. Surely we have more expectation than that?

Anything less that 8 wins is not a pass for me. I'm expecting 8-10 wins. And it's not about saying which other teams won't improve, that'll take care of itself. There are so many surprises each year. Who would thought flag favourites west coast would not make finals. Or that we would beat the crows away etc.

We have a lot of middle tier players that should improve and are in their peak years watts howe garland grimes

And we have heaps of young talent that should naturally get fitter and better viney Tyson Salem etc

Go dees!

Hypothetically if you were sitting an exam and you got 50%, you pass. Would you be over the moon, unlikely, but you wouldn't be frustrated beyond belief as usual for melbourne supporters.

Pass mark is fairly set at 8 wins, and above and beyond is a better season

nine wins is a bare pass - I hope we make it 11.

I think in a year or two you will be changing your opinion about a few of those players, especially Frost.

I think in a year or two, what happened in 2014 will still be what happened in 2014.

I think frost and newton will be great long term players for us, but where they are at in there careers right now won't affect us much in 2015

I think in a year or two, what happened in 2014 will still be what happened in 2014.

I think frost and newton will be great long term players for us, but where they are at in there careers right now won't affect us much in 2015

Please excuse my first post, I wrote that last night after doing four 13 hour shifts this week. I think Frost and Newton will help influence the results of games this year in our favour.

Finals, i am sick of saying "all i want is to be competitive" time to step up [censored], take the game by the scruff of the neck and shake it into submission.

feeling the same to most here 6 to 8 wins any more is a bonus dont wanna continue with expecting alot while receiving so little as so many here would be familiar with

feeling the same to most here 6 to 8 wins any more is a bonus dont wanna continue with expecting alot while receiving so little as so many here would be familiar with

6 wins is not much better than 4 in my view. Realisticly 8 wins is pass mark, it is double from 2014, but I would still be disappointed in this. 10 wins and I would be satisfied.

Newton, garlett, michie, couldn't get a game in the afl last year, frost was dropped from a bottom 4 team at times, and vandenberg is from the neafl which is the equivalent standard of local footy in vic.

No it's not Vandenberg was coming up against some serious young midfield talent from GWS, Gold Coast, Swans and Lions

Edited February 28, 201510 yr by The Devil Inside

No it's not Vandenberg was coming up against some serious young midfield talent from GWS, Gold Coast, Swans and Lions

Sorry, despite the fact that it is the second div for those teams, the standard in that comp is a far drop from vfl, sanfl and wafl. Some of the extremely well paid sides down in victoria filled with ex afl players would be extremely competitive in that comp

Depends how you measure 'pass' or 'fail'.

8 wins generally sounds good, but if the 14 losses are all non-competitive thrashings, does it mean much? Given our fixture's rather easy, it's quite possible for us to find 8 winnable games against weaker sides but against the remainder of the competition not go anywhere.

Similarly, we may end up with 6 wins but have few (or no) beltings.

I don't think a 'pass mark' can be set pre-season - I think we have to view the season in its entirety and after that we can review it and judge whether we think it was a good year or a bad one.

That's not to say we shouldn't set ourselves goals, and lofty(-ish) ones at that.

Hard to see a massive improvement on 2014 after a pre-season where:

- Frawley and Clark walk out, two of our best mature players (when fit)

- Trengove and Petracca injured and out for the season
- Howe, Watts and Vince compromised preparation
- Ruck division still a major cause for concern, no one seriously challenging Jamar yet and he's hardly a star.

However we were close to winning a number of games last year, and I hope some of the younger guys continue to progress in 2015.

4-6 wins is my prediction. But heaven help us if Jones gets injured...

I would be happy to see us compete with the top 4 teams for most of the game instead of it being a one sided game, that would be a big tick for me.

Hard to see a massive improvement on 2014 after a pre-season where:

- Frawley and Clark walk out, two of our best mature players (when fit)

- Trengove and Petracca injured and out for the season

- Howe, Watts and Vince compromised preparation

- Ruck division still a major cause for concern, no one seriously challenging Jamar yet and he's hardly a star.

However we were close to winning a number of games last year, and I hope some of the younger guys continue to progress in 2015.

4-6 wins is my prediction. But heaven help us if Jones gets injured...

4-6 wins will be a massive negative for the club, seriously that is a bad year, that would mean 10 wins in 2 years for Paul Roos, that would not be good.

7 wins would be a pass for me.

8 would be excellent but 6 wouldn't be a huge fail.

5 wins would be a disaster.

I would like to think 9 wins is our pass mark this season.

No it's not Vandenberg was coming up against some serious young midfield talent from GWS, Gold Coast, Swans and Lions

A player from my clubs 2s went there this season and played every game in the premiership team, so yeh, it is.....

Always has been, there's no money there so u get no players. It's a horrible standard of football for a state league

For all those saying 'we lost games we could / should have won', I think it's equally valid to say we won games we could / should have lost, in a season where we won four games.

I still maintain it is not wins / losses that really matter, it's percentage, as that will tell us more about how competitive we are.

Ultimately, if we win 8 games by the skin of our teeth and lose 14 by ten goal margins it's probably not as worthwhile as winning four to six games well, losing another dozen by under 3 goals, and never having a defeat greater than 48 points.

For all those saying 'we lost games we could / should have won', I think it's equally valid to say we won games we could / should have lost, in a season where we won four games.

I still maintain it is not wins / losses that really matter, it's percentage, as that will tell us more about how competitive we are.

Ultimately, if we win 8 games by the skin of our teeth and lose 14 by ten goal margins it's probably not as worthwhile as winning four to six games well, losing another dozen by under 3 goals, and never having a defeat greater than 48 points.

Brisbane last year 7 wins percentage 69 , Melbourne 4 wins average 68. Percentage doesn't matter as much as wins/loss. Or compare Brisbane to Carlton, both 7 wins, Brisbane percentage 69, Carlton 90. Both had poor years.

Hard to see a massive improvement on 2014 after a pre-season where:

- Frawley and Clark walk out, two of our best mature players (when fit)

- Trengove and Petracca injured and out for the season

- Howe, Watts and Vince compromised preparation

- Ruck division still a major cause for concern, no one seriously challenging Jamar yet and he's hardly a star.

However we were close to winning a number of games last year, and I hope some of the younger guys continue to progress in 2015.

4-6 wins is my prediction. But heaven help us if Jones gets injured...

Clark didn't play ....trengove didn't play....Petrarch hasn't played......frawley was so,so ......Howe will ply Rnd 1 & so will Watts ..& we will miss Vince but adequate replacements ....?? A bit negative maybe .....

Clark didn't play ....trengove didn't play....Petrarch hasn't played......frawley was so,so ......Howe will ply Rnd 1 & so will Watts ..& we will miss Vince but adequate replacements ....?? A bit negative maybe .....

Agree Deestar3, but these are the guys who (if fit) could walk into our team and add the class to improve a team that only won 4 games.

Watts, Howe and Vince may all play round 1, but may not be at their best without the pre-season miles in the legs.

8 wins would be fantastic for 2015, but a third of the competition won less than that last season. Have we really improved that much?

It may be negative but I'd count 5-6 wins and improved percentage as pass for me. Anything more is upside.