On 19/08/2014 at 21:23, hogans_heroes said:

on a side note it was nice to see him put a GWS player on his ass and give away a 50

First time ive ever seen him get angry

Angry? And nice to see? Are you kidding?

The holding the ball decision against him was a result of his next to non-existent sense of urgency when around the contest or when the ball is in his hands.

Palmer had a dig at him because of it and then fell over when Watts pushed him.

It was stupid by Watts and frustrated me greatly.

He definitely didn't portray any anger and it definitely wasn't nice to see. What would be nice to see would be to see Watts run at the man with ball or just the ball with ferocity and intent.

Past coaches and players have contributed to the way in which Watts plays today but part of it is the way he is conditioned.

As many already say, in a side with a really strong group of players all over the ground, Watts would be able to play a minimal role really well and would be made to look like a decent footballer. It's only because the MFC have so many holes and problems in the list that his weaknesses stand out so much. I'm not excusing it. But I understand that's the way it is. Frustrates me to no end and I still hope eventually things will click for him and he 'awakens'. Realises that there is an intensity that needs to be adopted to play at AFL level.

That round 1 St Kilda game and the first quarter against the pies last year it was there. I've seen it. He just needs to find it again, and this time not lose it.

  On 20/08/2014 at 06:52, stevethemanjordan said:

Angry? And nice to see? Are you kidding?

The holding the ball decision against him was a result of his next to non-existent sense of urgency when around the contest or when the ball is in his hands.

Palmer had a dig at him because of it and then fell over when Watts pushed him.

It was stupid by Watts and frustrated me greatly.

He definitely didn't portray any anger and it definitely wasn't nice to see. What would be nice to see would be to see Watts run at the man with ball or just the ball with ferocity and intent. But that's unlikely to happen unfortunately.

Past coaches and players have contributed to the way in which Watts plays today but part of it is the way he is conditioned.

As many already say, in a side with a really strong group of players all over the ground, Watts would be able to play a minimal role really well and would be made to look like a decent footballer. It's only because the MFC have so many holes and problems in the list that his weaknesses stand out so much. I'm not excusing it. But I understand that's the way it is. Frustrates me to no end and I still hope eventually things will click for him and he 'awakens'. Realises that there is an intensity that needs to be adopted to play at AFL level.

That round 1 St Kilda game and the first quarter against the pies last year it was there. I've seen it. He just needs to find it again, and this time not lose it.

one / year steve

Good record

  On 19/08/2014 at 23:27, beelzebub said:

You seriously saying he needs someone to hold his hand ??

I note with some irony that the goal he kicked against GWS came about after he freed his hand which was being held by a GWS player.

I should have included another choice in the original question.

Keep , unless a really good trade is offered

That is ..might as well keep him unless something just too tempting is placed on the table.

I dont expect any to do so , but I'll add it and if any want to change their vote they can.Its still a "keep'" just with a rider

  On 20/08/2014 at 06:56, old dee said:

one / year steve

Good record

What do you mean one year OD?

  On 20/08/2014 at 07:08, beelzebub said:

I should have included another choice in the original question.

Keep , unless a really good trade is offered

That is ..might as well keep him unless something just too tempting is placed on the table.

I dont expect any to do so , but I'll add it and if any want to change their vote they can.Its still a "keep'" just with a rider

Heh... after yesterday BB, I suspect that most of us would probably have chosen that.

I would have thought that list management looks at all offers that come in for their players and would need to assess them on their merits,

... and then try and offload the players that they want to move on instead of the good ones they want to keep

  On 20/08/2014 at 07:11, stevethemanjordan said:

What do you mean one year OD?

One per year Steve

I would sacrifice the loss and trade him, based on effort, body language, desire & want for winning. Never once put his head over the ball and win it for himself. The game today requires it, he doesn't have it. Sets a bad example.

  On 20/08/2014 at 07:34, old dee said:

One per year Steve

Ah I see..

Yes, it's difficult to understand.

What was his mindset like during those games? Why is there such a huge contrast in the way he played those games/parts of games when compared to the majority of his other games?

Surely someone has pointed it out to him? How does he take himself back to that place in his mind?

It was so clearly visible on tv that he was 'playing in the moment' with a purpose.

I just dont get why anyone wouldn't want to keep him

  On 20/08/2014 at 07:15, Ouch! said:

Heh... after yesterday BB, I suspect that most of us would probably have chosen that.

I would have thought that list management looks at all offers that come in for their players and would need to assess them on their merits,

... and then try and offload the players that they want to move on instead of the good ones they want to keep

well yes and also.. Sometimes you might want to 'reconfigure' your list, change its bias etc.

Have no doubt as you suggest teams are always fielding enquiries. Its a game of give and take

  On 20/08/2014 at 07:55, JackVineyForPresident said:

I just dont get why anyone wouldn't want to keep him

there are 51% JVFP who have the same query about why you would want to keep him.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

id actually rather keep him myself but id trade many others quickly. In some ways i worry that the whole dynamic of the team is wrong for what ever reason and only new personnel willfix it.

  On 20/08/2014 at 12:59, Norm Smith said:

id actually rather keep him myself but id trade many others quickly. In some ways i worry that the whole dynamic of the team is wrong for what ever reason and only new personnel willfix it.

Now I don't think you find a lot who disagree with that NSC

What i mean is some of the players have talent, most have been relied on too early and have poor confidence, have no confidence in each other and have suffered from no real leaders on the field - end result is only a start again approach is really going to fix it.

  On 20/08/2014 at 07:55, JackVineyForPresident said:

I just dont get why anyone wouldn't want to keep him

Perhaps because he kicked a third of our goals last Saturday and was not named in our forward line [and the goal he kicked was whilst under pressure in conjestion].

Perhaps it is our forwards we should be trading rather than a No. 1 draft pick who will possibly excell in a decent team? Talk of trading off a No. 1 draft pick, whilst at the same time making application for a low PP, seems disingenious to me and I am sure that the AFL would see it the same way. Seems pointless giving us another low pick when we consistently demonstrate that we neither know who to chose or how to develop them.

  On 19/08/2014 at 21:52, jazza said:

People have been killed for saying that.

By who? Surely not anyone from the Bay. I don't reckon they'd put down their bong for long enough.

  On 20/08/2014 at 07:55, JackVineyForPresident said:

I just dont get why anyone wouldn't want to keep him

Footy is a contact sport

Hes scared of contact

  On 20/08/2014 at 19:36, hogans_heroes said:

Footy is a contact sport

Hes scared of contact

Maybe not scared per se ..as it takes a certain amount of courage no doubt to take the field alone at this level. But he definitely doesnt embrace the 'contact ' side of things

Obviously there are quite a lot of different attributes that make for effectiveness in Aussie rules football. A question in my mind is whether or not the 'contact side of things' is a non-negotiable essential - either particularly now, or in general (as though it were fundamental to the very nature of Aussie rules football). Could you have a valued player who simply didn't play that way?

Defending was a non-negotiable essential for Neeld, and Jurrah drifted out of the team. No amount of hindsight has gotten me to accept Neeld's evaluation of what Jurrah brought to the team; I know others disagree with me on this. But what if our game is evolving to where we will again have specialists, as we did in the past? Ricky Jackson, Allan Jakovitch, Brian Dixon, Paul Callery, etc etc all had "deficiencies" that were not seen at the time as outweighing their value. In the rolling maul game, every player needs to be a tackling beast - but maybe the game is in a transitional phase and a new style will emerge, and take out a flag, and we'll all move on. Hawthorn, for example, rely more on accurate delivery than on sheer grunt. We have in general moved on from the flood. Pagan's paddock has passed into history. Bully coaching may be getting past its use-by date. And perhaps there will be appreciation of the special contribution of a Liam Jurrah again.

Jack Watts has a skill set that does not include bash and crash. How absolute is that as a deficiency, I wonder?

The failure i see with Jack is his lack of chase and tackle, he often trots along side his man when he has the ball and then only starts to half chase if the player tries runs and carries. Tyson is a little like that too. We need players to put pressure on their opponents or the ball carrier at all times. Jack does not do that, he certainly has great deliver skills and is a pretty good mark when his on song. He sadly does not look interested in engaging the enemy.

  On 19/08/2014 at 21:23, hogans_heroes said:

on a side note it was nice to see him put a GWS player on his ass and give away a 50

First time ive ever seen him get angry

He essentially gave away a 5m penalty.

If it was me I probably would have hit the ball out of his hands as i went past to get to the mark as well.

But that's just my bad sportsmanship i suppose.

What would happen if he grabbed the ball out of the players' hand and booted it into Level 2 of the Ponsford Stand anyway?

  On 20/08/2014 at 14:07, McQueen said:

By who? Surely not anyone from the Bay. I don't reckon they'd put down their bong for long enough.

Couple of crayfishermen that would offload a dead weight in the strait for 25 bucks.

  On 20/08/2014 at 19:36, hogans_heroes said:

Footy is a contact sport

Hes scared of contact

I seem to recall Goddard was seen as soft as well in the first 5-6 seasons, and rubbished as a pick 1.

He actually went through similar calls (probably not as vocal as what Watts has had) to be offloaded etc,

It probably took him 6 or so seasons for things to change. Again, Watts might come good eventually, he might not, or he might only come good in a different team/environment.

Really don't know the answer, but he ain't the only one.

if I was to make a prediction :