I think we have proven the future is now. You can't force a future and games into players who are not ready. You have to create an environment where games are earnt and players both pushed and nurtured into the position to earn the games. ROK would potentially assist in that environment in he would be pushing for a game each week and showing players what they need to do to earn it. In saying that Stone and Roos would know more in where he is at.

Absolutely agree with your last sentence. However, Rhino is too old and is finished as a player. If he was 30, maybe... at 34, no. It's not a masters comp, the game and players are getting quicker every year.

O'Keefe - just maybe he would be of some value for one year - but seriously there are already too many on the list to be weeded out over the next couple of years - why clog it up further?

Agreed.

I have only one thought on this.. Would the inclusion of ROK aid the development or someone(s) or actually hinder it by denying opportunity ?

Mainly the former.

He won't be a certain starter. He will at least provide some competition for the youngsters and could be part of a transition towards a coaching role.

The young players need players to show them how to train and play football. Coaches can only do so much. Experienced peers are vital and we are very thin on the ground.

It's a yes from me. One year contract. This isn't Rodan or Byrnes. This guy was a star of the comp and his body is still holding up. He's someone you want at your club if you are in the MFC's position.

Even if he doesn't play a single game - ROK will be worth his weight in gold.

At 88kgs, and with gold at A$44,773.51 per kg, we're looking at $3,940,068.88 for his contract.

I think we should look at a less precious metal.

If anything, I think the last 8 years have shown us that high draft picks are inconsequential if you don't have the older leaders to show them what's required to be an AFL player.

ROK is a formal norm smith medallist, former gun and most importantly former leader. In terms of overall quality, there's daylight between him and say a Byrnes or a Rodan. Even if he doesn't play a single game - ROK will be worth his weight in gold.

So was Gary Ayres, it doesn't mean we give him a game now.

Mainly the former.

He won't be a certain starter. He will at least provide some competition for the youngsters and could be part of a transition towards a coaching role.

The young players need players to show them how to train and play football. Coaches can only do so much. Experienced peers are vital and we are very thin on the ground.

It's a yes from me. One year contract. This isn't Rodan or Byrnes. This guy was a star of the comp and his body is still holding up. He's someone you want at your club if you are in the MFC's position.

I did pose the question purposefully...i.e not as a comment as per the latter. Its not 100 clear cut is it and I'll defer ( as if a choice lol ) to the FD etc

I dont want us becoming some sort of 'golden' ticket but there will be cases ( players ) that totally deserve to be viewed on their merits.

We still need straightening up and bolstering. Is all a balance isnt it.

I did pose the question purposefully...i.e not as a comment as per the latter. Its not 100 clear cut is it and I'll defer ( as if a choice lol ) to the FD etc

I dont want us becoming some sort of 'golden' ticket but there will be cases ( players ) that totally deserve to be viewed on their merits.

We still need straightening up and bolstering. Is all a balance isnt it.

I agree that we don't want to be seen as a retirement village, but by the same token every case should be judged on its merits.

It's a refreshing feeling to have faith in those making these decisions.

I agree that we don't want to be seen as a retirement village, but by the same token every case should be judged on its merits.

It's a refreshing feeling to have faith in those making these decisions.

Strangely I do... In the past it was pure unadulterated hope but now I simply think they will

There are two ways to look at it.

Daniel Cross: Couldn't get a game at the 'Dogs, was delisted came to us and has played well when available.

Shannon Byrnes: Couldn't get a game at Cats, was delisted then came to us and played to an average/below average level.

The big difference?
When Crossy got games at the Dogs in his last year, he was getting 24 touches a game.

When Shagger got games in his last year at the Cats, he got 10 touches (admittedly as a forward pocket) and kicked 1 goal.

There is a difference between playing well but can't crack the seniors and winding your career down. ROK needs to be looked at in similar terms.

He would be in our top 12 players WYL, atmo.

If he at 34 and slow is in our top 12 then we are ********.

If it's ROK vs pick 60+, I'd be tempted to go ROK.

depending on what else ( who else ) we get earlier draft and picks then this is indeed the question

If he at 34 and slow is in our top 12 then we are ********.

Yeah, but we are *********.

plenty of good players picked at really late picks, but we are talking about a delisted free agent who would cost us nothing, and provide great leadership and experience and also a bridge to the Sydney culture

I personally think he'd be able to play in a forward pocket

plenty of good players picked at really late picks, but we are talking about a delisted free agent who would cost us nothing, and provide great leadership and experience and also a bridge to the Sydney culture

I personally think he'd be able to play in a forward pocket

Based on what evidence? His performance in the past has no bearing on what he can do at the moment - he's barely cracked a game this year.

If it's ROK vs pick 60+, I'd be tempted to go ROK.

However, he's in a vastly different situation to Cross for a number of reasons. Leaving his higher age to one side, he's also nowhere near in the same form Cross was last year (and I'm not trying to say here that Cross was setting the world on fire).

Pick 60 vs ROK???

Here's a (albeit selective) sample titan...

Pick 61 Jarrod Lyons

Pick 66 Paul Puopolo

Pick 60 Clint Bartram

Pick 62 Ben Sinclair

Pick 79 Jesse White

Pick 75 Shane Savage

Pick 63 Tyson Goldsack

Pick 71 Justin Westoff

Pick 61 Matthew Stokes

Pick 65 Tom Langdon

Pick 60 Mitch Honeychurch

With Roos and co in charge, I'd have no doubt backing them to use the pick well on a youngster.

I did pose the question purposefully...i.e not as a comment as per the latter. Its not 100 clear cut is it and I'll defer ( as if a choice lol ) to the FD etc

I dont want us becoming some sort of 'golden' ticket but there will be cases ( players ) that totally deserve to be viewed on their merits.

We still need straightening up and bolstering. Is all a balance isnt it.

at the moment we're recruiting a few 20-21yr olds from other clubs, & 18Yr olds from the draft.. we are in a restocking & teaching phase, after Roosy has had a feel of what we've got & what we don't have. These kids need the best leaders beside them onfield. We haven't got enough topline Peers.

Even our leaders, Jones & Grimes need their help, as they have only learnt from NQR skippers of recent years. Having Crossy & Dawsey is a start. We've shed Mr Byrnes & need to replace him.

Pick 60 vs ROK???

Here's a (albeit selective) sample titan...

Pick 61 Jarrod Lyons

Pick 66 Paul Puopolo

Pick 60 Clint Bartram

Pick 62 Ben Sinclair

Pick 79 Jesse White

Pick 75 Shane Savage

Pick 63 Tyson Goldsack

Pick 71 Justin Westoff

Pick 61 Matthew Stokes

Pick 65 Tom Langdon

Pick 60 Mitch Honeychurch

With Roos and co in charge, I'd have no doubt backing them to use the pick well on a youngster.

what you say is without doubt true ...but given its supposedly ( and I almost winch immediately upon writing ) a flattish then shallowish draft then the question still stands in reality...

Thing is as far as I am concerned we need to get a massive wiggle on with our list. . This may mean a fine balance between instant effect and longer term affect.

All those pick Moon are fantastic in hindsight. We need foresight right at the moment

Based on what evidence? His performance in the past has no bearing on what he can do at the moment - he's barely cracked a game this year.

He has consistently had 30 touches in the reserves, been kicking goal, his experience and goal nous won't leave him because of his age.

I think a lot of people need to remember it's Sydney we're talking about most of the blokes he's competing with for the last few spots would be certain starters every week for us

what you say is without doubt true ...but given its supposedly ( and I almost winch immediately upon writing ) a flattish then shallowish draft then the question still stands in reality...

Thing is as far as I am concerned we need to get a massive wiggle on with our list. . This may mean a fine balance between instant effect and longer term affect.

All those pick Moon are fantastic in hindsight. We need foresight right at the moment

Some good points bub. However, all I'm saying is that we have been pretty good with later draft picks in recent times. I'd rather use one on a youngster than fill up a spot with a 34 year old who hasn't played senior footy since I don't know when. I'd rather Roos do a trade with our higher picks to get much younger guns with some experience.

Some good points bub. However, all I'm saying is that we have been pretty good with later draft picks in recent times. I'd rather use one on a youngster than fill up a spot with a 34 year old who hasn't played senior footy since I don't know when. I'd rather Roos do a trade with our higher picks to get much younger guns with some experience.

o'k, so we should take him in the 2nd Rnd then? Rrrighto.

If he at 34 and slow is in our top 12 then we are ********.

exactly; we are carp for having poor standards at the club for an over-extencded time, 20 yrs or so... & previous to the good years, our standards had slipped after the Red Fox went.

we have to re-introduce strong standards onfield NOW, whilst talents in our side won't chase or tackle.

Anyone watching today's game and thinks RoK would not be an upgrade on a skills level to at least one of our players?

If you are watching today's game you can see the benefit of youth and speed. Love Cross but his lack of pace has been really exposed today.

If you are watching today's game you can see the benefit of youth and speed. Love Cross but his lack of pace has been really exposed today.

If you cannot see that the biggest need is our onfield leadership & off-field, then we aren't going anywhere. we didn't lose today because of athleticism.

Can he win his own ball? Yes

Can he do something with it when he gets it? Yes

Does he provide leadership? Yes

Does he have a lot of experience? Yes

Is he an old man? Yes

Is he still better than nine-tenths of our list? Yes

Can he win his own ball? Yes

Can he do something with it when he gets it? Yes

Does he provide leadership? Yes

Does he have a lot of experience? Yes

Is he an old man? Yes

Is he still better than nine-tenths of our list? Yes

A lot of Yes' there but is he playing AFL level football or capable of it now. According to Scott Lucas who has watched a few of his NEAFL games, he's not playing up to the level at the moment.

With Kennedy out for a few weeks he would be the logical replacement, lets see if they pick him. If he gets a game, lets see how he goes.

There is no doubt he was better than nine-tenths of our list but is he now. Probably, but the question is should he be now. Of course he shouldn't and that's the problem. Will he make us better going forward? not sure.