You do read some of the posts surely?, don't normally read yours, but saw it actually quoted me correctly this time, what a surprise, just get a bit bored with the posters who are now slashing their wrists and bashing the whole team, what did they expect this season?

From what I can see from some of the topics after Saturday's game, we look like delisting about 30 players, should make draft time interesting

"Satyriconhome Sums Up".

Don't be so superior! - just one more poster, with just one more opinion... no taller than anyone else... (and yes, we do appreciate your training notes)

As I have said before, why do you waste your time supporting the team, if it brings out such hatred in you, can't be good for your health in the long term

I know exactly where we are at the moment this season, exactly where I thought we would be, Roos probably thought the same thing, think he is just getting a little bit frustrated like the rest of us with the skill errors, and the fact that he can't seem to eradicate them no matter how hard he and the coaches try

and then, on the same grounds, why do you Satyriconhome, waste your time reading Demonland?

"Not hatred", I suppose - am I putting words in your mouth? (rhetorical question - point of which is, you have no business saying WYL hates anyone....)

S-home complaining about abrasive and wilfully ignorant posters has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Wow a few weeks and you're back, anniversary of Schwab running over your cat came quickly again, give it a rest, it is the past.

So how many are we going to delist, 30?

Basketballers?...that's new at least, I can think of one, one of your whipping boys.

As I have said before, why do you waste your time supporting the team, if it brings out such hatred in you, can't be good for your health in the long term

I know exactly where we are at the moment this season, exactly where I thought we would be, Roos probably thought the same thing, think he is just getting a little bit frustrated like the rest of us with the skill errors, and the fact that he can't seem to eradicate them no matter how hard he and the coaches try

Hang on a sec Saty do you seriously think as supporters you expect us all to just lie down and give the players a pat on the back?

We as supporters are allowed to vent out our frustrating at every loss because we are frustrated and impatient of lack of success.

So for you to come on here and take a swipe at every person that vents in frustration is absolutely pathetic. Maybe its you that needs to change your code of sport because if you haven't relized every club has supporters that will vent frustration and critize players. Its part of football for gods sake.

I dont think you have any idea where we are too be honest. I seem to recall all last you were telling us all Mark Neeld was the right man for the job and we had no idea about football..

Hang on a sec Saty do you seriously think as supporters you expect us all to just lie down and give the players a pat on the back?

We as supporters are allowed to vent out our frustrating at every loss because we are frustrated and impatient of lack of success.

So for you to come on here and take a swipe at every person that vents in frustration is absolutely pathetic. Maybe its you that needs to change your code of sport because if you haven't relized every club has supporters that will vent frustration and critize players. Its part of football for gods sake.

I dont think you have any idea where we are too be honest. I seem to recall all last you were telling us all Mark Neeld was the right man for the job and we had no idea about football..

As per normal DD, you haven't bothered reading what I posted, just a couple of the other comments against my posts so you thought you would join in

I am as disappoined as anybody with the performance on Saturday night, obviously there is still a long way to go before we start to be competitive week in, week out, but we are where I thought we would be.

But I am going to back up next week in the hope that we put in a better showing against Geelong, I am not demanding the immediate delisting of 30 odd players

This is a footy forum agreed, so therefore I am entitled to express an opinion, like everybody else, I sometimes wonder though why some do continue to support the Club as it brings them so much misery, surely their time would be better spent elsewhere

I understand that the emotions expressed will be dependent on the the result, but some of the bandwagon jumping, hypocrisy, contradictory statements I find rather amusing, so I will post that, said before if you don't like it, don't read it

I also get a bit bored with the past being continually brought up, as it has in the topics emanating from the weekend's performance, let's move on shall we, it's not all Barry Prendergast's fault...or is it?

I have trust in Roos to right the ship, but it ain't gonna happen as soon as some on here would like

To be fair saty, most on here are yearly members who have invested money in the club and we have been terrible for 8 years in a row,

It's not surprising patience is thin, especially when we are costing ourselves with silly skill errors

To be fair saty, most on here are yearly members who have invested money in the club and we have been terrible for 8 years in a row,

It's not surprising patience is thin, especially when we are costing ourselves with silly skill errors

Yes but it is just footy, nobody dies, I invest heavily in the Club, but I don't feel the need to denigrate players who go out at the weekend and give it their best shot, unfortunately in some cases their best is not good enough at the moment

Roos will decide if anybody doesn't deserve a game next week, unfortunately we don't have many replacements demanding to be picked, so Roos is experiencing the same frustrations as we are

We have all played footy, but I assume none have ever reached AFL level, so we have no idea what is required to play at that level

The players are not immune from critics, we are a bottom 4 side for a reason

On a positive note and I am not sure if has been mentioned in the thread previously but what a sensational goal by Dean Kent. I recon there is fair bit to work with in this bloke and he could become that x-factor that we need.

Wow a few weeks and you're back, anniversary of Schwab running over your cat came quickly again, give it a rest, it is the past.

So how many are we going to delist, 30?

Basketballers?...that's new at least, I can think of one, one of your whipping boys.

As I have said before, why do you waste your time supporting the team, if it brings out such hatred in you, can't be good for your health in the long term

I know exactly where we are at the moment this season, exactly where I thought we would be, Roos probably thought the same thing, think he is just getting a little bit frustrated like the rest of us with the skill errors, and the fact that he can't seem to eradicate them no matter how hard he and the coaches try

A little frustrated with skill errors is your reply.

Some of this list have been around for 5-6 years!!

Your thoughts are amusing

A little frustrated with skill errors is your reply.

Some of this list have been around for 5-6 years!!

Your thoughts are amusing

Ah yes, but it is Cam Schwab's fault that they haven't developed properly isn't it?....oh no sorry, it was the day MFC sacked Norm Smith that started the rot....no, it was when they changed the name from the Fuchsias to the Demons.......

Ah yes, but it is Cam Schwab's fault that they haven't developed properly isn't it?....oh no sorry, it was the day MFC sacked Norm Smith that started the rot....no, it was when they changed the name from the Fuschia's to the Demons.......

But whose fault is it?

We have at least 20 players on our books who will not take this club forward.

They simply do not have the size skills or mindset to do so.

Just on the misses by Dawes and Grimes, I felt as they were lining up that the slight angle they were on would cause them to miss. A lot of Geelong players opt to "kick around the corner" on those types of shots now and I wonder if using that method wouldn't have helped at least Grimes put it through. It would t have helped Dawes as he was on his wrong side but I always felt when playing/kicking the ball around at training it was easier to kick those "snap" goals than kick straight when on a 45' angle for whatever reason.

The snap (from left side of the goal) I'm fine with, the checkside to me doesn't make much sense. The ball spins more late than anything else so you still have to start it pretty straight. I'd get players to walk back further then try and cheat on the walk in to take some off the angle but mainly you have to just kick it regardless.

Still surprised Watts missed that one late last week.

But whose fault is it?

We have at least 20 players on our books who will not take this club forward.

They simply do not have the size skills or mindset to do so.

I'm usually anti-Saty but there's a lot to be said for just letting go of the past. It's not really helping anyone.

Those responsible are largely all gone. Of those who are still there it's us the supporters who are the biggest failure. We have to keep demanding success and transparency from the club through active engagement with the board. That's really all we have and to keep supporting the club so they can finance their mistakes. Collingwood stuffs up but they have so much money they can fix it! Same with Essendon now.

The list turnover will happen. Some of the list spots have been filled for too long due to the GWS and Gold Coast draft concession. We'd likely have 4 less on our list this year replaced by 1 or 2 quality 3rd or 4th year players and 1 or 2 others if it wasn't for expansion.

Anyway the way to improve a list is not recruiting or trading it's developing. Yes we brought in Vince, Tyson and Cross this year but we paid for them. And same for JKH and Salem. But it's the development of Pedersen and Jetta that has improved the list. We don't have a deep talent list. But Sydney sold a tonne of depth for Franklin this year and that's going perfectly. Imagine if next year for the first time in ages the likes of Salem and Kent actually improve over a preseason.

I'm usually anti-Saty but there's a lot to be said for just letting go of the past. It's not really helping anyone.

Those responsible are largely all gone. Of those who are still there it's us the supporters who are the biggest failure. We have to keep demanding success and transparency from the club through active engagement with the board. That's really all we have and to keep supporting the club so they can finance their mistakes. Collingwood stuffs up but they have so much money they can fix it! Same with Essendon now.

The list turnover will happen. Some of the list spots have been filled for too long due to the GWS and Gold Coast draft concession. We'd likely have 4 less on our list this year replaced by 1 or 2 quality 3rd or 4th year players and 1 or 2 others if it wasn't for expansion.

Anyway the way to improve a list is not recruiting or trading it's developing. Yes we brought in Vince, Tyson and Cross this year but we paid for them. And same for JKH and Salem. But it's the development of Pedersen and Jetta that has improved the list. We don't have a deep talent list. But Sydney sold a tonne of depth for Franklin this year and that's going perfectly. Imagine if next year for the first time in ages the likes of Salem and Kent actually improve over a preseason.

i agree. But many on here call certain players champions and "jets"

That they are not.

Many should not be playing the game at the top end.

i agree. But many on here call certain players champions and "jets"

That they are not.

Many should not be playing the game at the top end.

But whose fault is it?

We have at least 20 players on our books who will not take this club forward.

They simply do not have the size skills or mindset to do so.

So we are going to delist 20 then, sorry thought it was 30, do you want to name them?

Ah yes, but it is Cam Schwab's fault that they haven't developed properly isn't it?....oh no sorry, it was the day MFC sacked Norm Smith that started the rot....no, it was when they changed the name from the Fuchsias to the Demons.......

He has had a big part to play in where this current list is at. Norm really doesn't and Checker, well we can give him a break on this one. The Norm Smith sacking was a huge mistake and it is unfortunately brought up as the galvanising point of where the club went wrong. Good clubs move on, everyone and all clubs make mistakes. We need to make more good decisions than bad and move forward.

I agree with a lot you have to say. We couldn't expect a huge lift with the current list and we still have a long way to go. Having a go at the players won't solve anything but unfortunately for some there will be a few more gone at the end of the year, part of the football cycle. It's easy to pot players on a site like this but it's good to remember that they are giving it their best and it is their livelihood & dreams we are talking about. Some won't make it, some just aren't up to scratch. I guess that's the way it is.

Personally I don't think it's good to be calling players duds, spuds or whatever but do think it's part of a good discussion on football to talk about a players strengths & weaknesses. Each to there own I guess.

So we are going to delist 20 then, sorry thought it was 30, do you want to name them?

just watch the last 2 games. It is self explanitory

just watch the last 2 games. It is self explanitory

No, you are not getting away that easy, you have made the sweeping statement...........

back it up....which 20?....this means there are only 2 left from the last 2 games

He has had a big part to play in where this current list is at. Norm really doesn't and Checker, well we can give him a break on this one. The Norm Smith sacking was a huge mistake and it is unfortunately brought up as the galvanising point of where the club went wrong. Good clubs move on, everyone and all clubs make mistakes. We need to make more good decisions than bad and move forward.

I agree with a lot you have to say. We couldn't expect a huge lift with the current list and we still have a long way to go. Having a go at the players won't solve anything but unfortunately for some there will be a few more gone at the end of the year, part of the football cycle. It's easy to pot players on a site like this but it's good to remember that they are giving it their best and it is their livelihood & dreams we are talking about. Some won't make it, some just aren't up to scratch. I guess that's the way it is.

Personally I don't think it's good to be calling players duds, spuds or whatever but do think it's part of a good discussion on football to talk about a players strengths & weaknesses. Each to there own I guess.

That's why I don't pot them as well.......you see it at games as well, the guy resting a beer on his ample girth shouting abuse.....think it is more to do with self inadequacy that anything else

A last mention to the selectors. Seriously, what the hell was that about. We already made the mistake of going too tall against the Pies, and we go and do it again. Two specialist ruckmen in Darwin against a hard running side? Four key defenders against a forward line containing one key forward and a resting ruckman? We already have a weak midfield and instead of supporting that with more run we go in with a plethora of talls. Playing Gawn was a massive error - while he shows great potential as a future no.1 ruckman he should not play in the same team as Jamar. And McKenzie on Daniel Pearce, who is probably their sixth or seventh best midfielder - I don't know why you would bother tagging him.

A really forgettable night all round.

The same reason guys like Issac Smith, Kade Simpson, Jarrod Harbrow and Pearce Hanley etc get tagged. Stop the outside run. I think I'll back Roos in over anyone on Demonland.

The same reason guys like Issac Smith, Kade Simpson, Jarrod Harbrow and Pearce Hanley etc get tagged. Stop the outside run. I think I'll back Roos in over anyone on Demonland.

You are spot on 'Grimes', it's happening a lot more. It's always interesting to see who Roos sends Cross too when available. See McAffer went to Hill last week as well.

Yes but it is just footy, nobody dies, I invest heavily in the Club, but I don't feel the need to denigrate players who go out at the weekend and give it their best shot, unfortunately in some cases their best is not good enough at the moment

Roos will decide if anybody doesn't deserve a game next week, unfortunately we don't have many replacements demanding to be picked, so Roos is experiencing the same frustrations as we are

We have all played footy, but I assume none have ever reached AFL level, so we have no idea what is required to play at that level

From past experience I know this post will likely be in vain, but I will make it anyway in the hope that something lands.

You seem to read other's posts discussing individual players as denigrating, but with yourself it is "their best is not good enough at the moment". I haven't seen much denigration occurring, and I haven't seen anyone suggest we should delist 30 players. These are things that you concoct to suit your "incredibly dumb" accusations.

If we are discussing the list and the inevitable changes that will occur, then individuals are going to be discussed in that context. The problem is that whenever that topic comes up, indeed whenever anything of a negative flavour comes up, your reaction is to try and shut it down win insults and an insistence that we all just shut up and defer to "fearless leader". First it was Neeld. Now Roos.

For the umpteenth time...

This is a DISCUSSION FORUM. DISCUSSION. FORUM. Not a fanboy site. Not a cult. Not a forum for ex-AFL players only.

No, Roos won't read it. Yes, there is some venting involved. But despite what you seem to think, the thoughts expressed on here don't stem from feelings of inadequacy, or shortcomings in our lives, or god knows what other theory you want to come up with. It is just people who love the club and are desperate to see it improve.

I think we could improve vastly to become, say a 9th, 10th or 11th side by next year, simply by recruiting one or two players who are sound decision makers off half back. If blokes like McDonald have somebody to handpass it to, he could easily become an A grader. Currently, the majority of our goals conceded, occur directly from our defenders poor decision making or kicking. If we can eradicate most of this, we'll start to win a lot more games and our strangling of the opposition will become far more effective. They will then have to make the play and that opens up the possibility of us being able to force turn overs and create our own scoring chances. At the moment, even when we blanket sides, a lot of the time we eventually turn it over in dangerous areas. This cost us both Bulldogs games for example.

Delist or trade out two or three of our poor makers currently in the starting 22 and replace them with better decision makers. I'll back our recruiters and Roos to identify those vital pieces of the puzzle.

2014 is unfortunately another stepping stone season. Next year though, we should be pushing for the eight or at least the fringe. It's very doable, particularly as we have a promising recruiting team now and the genius of Paul Roos.

Agree with most of what you say AF however I think we constantly delude ourselves on the quaslity of the list.

We have said similair things to your comment that we could easily improve to a higher position next year with the addition of a couple of players .

We have been saying that for four years, the net result is we are still a bottom four side at best.

A couple of new players in 2015 will not improve us much IMO.

We are a good dozen players short of having a list capable of threatening eighth position.

There were eight players in the 22 on Saturday that IMO are never going to take us higher they simply are not good enough.

Roos has improved the player performances but a large number are showing us their maximium.

New better players is the only way to show significant improvement.

From past experience I know this post will likely be in vain, but I will make it anyway in the hope that something lands.

You seem to read other's posts discussing individual players as denigrating, but with yourself it is "their best is not good enough at the moment". I haven't seen much denigration occurring, and I haven't seen anyone suggest we should delist 30 players. These are things that you concoct to suit your "incredibly dumb" accusations.

If we are discussing the list and the inevitable changes that will occur, then individuals are going to be discussed in that context. The problem is that whenever that topic comes up, indeed whenever anything of a negative flavour comes up, your reaction is to try and shut it down win insults and an insistence that we all just shut up and defer to "fearless leader". First it was Neeld. Now Roos.

For the umpteenth time...

This is a DISCUSSION FORUM. DISCUSSION. FORUM. Not a fanboy site. Not a cult. Not a forum for ex-AFL players only.

No, Roos won't read it. Yes, there is some venting involved. But despite what you seem to think, the thoughts expressed on here don't stem from feelings of inadequacy, or shortcomings in our lives, or god knows what other theory you want to come up with. It is just people who love the club and are desperate to see it improve.

I thought you only came on here to have a go at me, you seem to strongly deny the inadequacy however, my insults should be water of a duck's back to any of the well rounded posters on here, yet they don't seem to be

You can't read many posts if you can't see the denigration occurring, let's think what kind of constructive criticism is calling a player a spud

If it is a discussion forum, then I am allowed my own opinion, and my opinion of other's posts, I think that's what discussion means, discuss?

It also means I can come up with whatever theory I want, theorize?

WYL wants 20 delisted, I corrected myself, missed that?

I agree with wyl I reckon there are close to 20 out of our list of 40 that are not good enough and will not take us from the bottom four.

Unfortunately it is not possible to change 20 players and find better ones in one season.

It is probably going to take 2 - 3 years to achieve a list that can threaten the top eight.

There is a reason we cannot win games we don't have enough good players plain and simple IMO.