GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[Return to Glory 8,447]

It's funny (I guess), I was a big fan of Geelong over previous years but I was massively over them this year. The ducking [censored] me, the fans shite me, the 186 points shite me, the boutique ground where clubs have no seating [censored] me, but above all the greatest snore fest in the history of footy, Tom Harley, [censored] me.

[jane02 3,749]

It's funny (I guess), I was a big fan of Geelong over previous years but I was massively over them this year. The ducking [censored] me, the fans shite me, the 186 points shite me, the boutique ground where clubs have no seating [censored] me, but above all the greatest snore fest in the history of footy, Tom Harley, [censored] me.

I agree with everything you said. Glad they lost.

[samcantstandya 1,057]

Cats are in trouble - no rucks, only 1 forward, many ageing stars and not too many above average up and comers.

Bartel,, Enright, Mackie, Kelly are all on the turn IMO.

Go for it Chip.

I'd give cats Frawley & Jamar as well and c what we got back.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

Hawkins was awesome last night. Without him it was a 10 Goal loss.

Hope Boomer gets 2 weeks. Little sniper always does it.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,246]

It's funny (I guess), I was a big fan of Geelong over previous years but I was massively over them this year. The ducking [censored] me, the fans shite me, the 186 points shite me, the boutique ground where clubs have no seating [censored] me, but above all the greatest snore fest in the history of footy, Tom Harley, [censored] me.

Flawless reasoning as usual RTG,however, I simply hate Norf more than I do Geelong.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,246]

Hawkins was awesome last night. Without him it was a 10 Goal loss.

Hope Boomer gets 2 weeks. Little sniper always does it.

Sniveling whinging little sniper always does it.

[Macca 17,032]

The Cats will continue to play finals and that keeps them within striking distance ... they are a club that is extremely well run and because of that, they almost certainly won't bottom out.

If he leaves, Frawley will improve them and there will be other free agents that they can sign in the future. Also, they develop their draftees well. Caddy can play and they can trade for more players like him.

They're not going away in a hurry ... they may have been the first team to go through a season without being overly concerned about their percentage ... wins are all that matter when aiming for a top 4 spot.

They're not exactly a premiership threat right now but they have a great culture, are well coached and they have Balme and Cook ... and, they've got (arguably) one of the best recruiters in the business in Stephen Wells.

They tick a lot of boxes.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Macca

[Machsy 2,858]

The Cats will continue to play finals and that keeps them within striking distance ... they are a club that is extremely well run and because of that, they almost certainly won't bottom out.

If he leaves, Frawley will improve them and there will be other free agents that they can sign in the future. Also, they develop their draftees well. Caddy can play and they can trade for more players like him.

They're not going away in a hurry ... they may have been the first team to go through a season without being overly concerned about their percentage ... wins are all that matter when aiming for a top 4 spot.

They're not exactly a premiership threat right now but they have a great culture, are well coached and they have Balme and Cook ... and, they've got (arguably) one of the best recruiters in the business in Stephen Wells.

They tick a lot of boxes.

This may have been true in the past, but don't be fooled by past glories.

As dees supporters, we should be well aware of this.

[Macca 17,032]

This may have been true in the past, but don't be fooled by past glories.

As dees supporters, we should be well aware of this.

I'm not forming my views based on past glories alone. You assume wrong.

They've got the right people in place ... are you saying that Cook, Scott, Wells, Balme & Carter aren't up for the job? The 5 positions that these men occupy are the most important in a club and there's one more very important position - the captain (Selwood)

They're set up better than most clubs but they do need a number of good players if they're going to challenge seriously in the next 5 years. That can happen the same as other clubs that are thereabouts could challenge.

[Deeman 1,512]

" has Melbourne defender james frawley made up his mind on his playing future? tune in to 10 news tonight "

I wasn't watching 10 news on that night back in June but would I be safe in saying that if any viewer thought they'd get a straight answer to the question they were disappointed?

[Machsy 2,858]

I'm not forming my views based on past glories alone. You assume wrong.

They've got the right people in place ... are you saying that Cook, Scott, Wells, Balme & Carter aren't up for the job? The 5 positions that these men occupy are the most important in a club and there's one more very important position - the captain (Selwood)

They're set up better than most clubs but they do need a number of good players if they're going to challenge seriously in the next 5 years. That can happen the same as other clubs that are thereabouts could challenge.

I personally have doubts about CEO taking his eyes off the ball on more than one occasion, and don't believe that Wells reputation is so deserved. He had no power over Hawkins or Ablett being a father-son, or of Selwood slipping to pick 7.

Great later picks like Duncan and Christensen were on everybody's radar but slipped; they weren't plucked from obscurity.

Anyone can roll the dice with a wayward talent like Stevie J - it was the coaches that pulled him into line.

Not a bad recruiter, quite a good one, but he's made mistakes like all others, and I think that nowhere near enough credit goes to Bomber Thompson & the coaching staff that were there to mould the senior players, in his way of turning them into onfield coaches.

Chris Scott hasn't done half as good a job with the younger players, and the older players could have run the club without him.

Look how lost they were last night without the senior experienced players leading the way.

He's not a bad coach, but he's barely been tested. Few coaches have been afforded the luxuries he has.

As for the president, Carter is like Bartlett - stays out of the way to let people do their job, which is fine, but he's not influential like Costa was.

[rjay 25,063]

The Cats will continue to play finals and that keeps them within striking distance ... they are a club that is extremely well run and because of that, they almost certainly won't bottom out.

If he leaves, Frawley will improve them and there will be other free agents that they can sign in the future. Also, they develop their draftees well. Caddy can play and they can trade for more players like him.

They're not going away in a hurry ... they may have been the first team to go through a season without being overly concerned about their percentage ... wins are all that matter when aiming for a top 4 spot.

They're not exactly a premiership threat right now but they have a great culture, are well coached and they have Balme and Cook ... and, they've got (arguably) one of the best recruiters in the business in Stephen Wells.

They tick a lot of boxes.

...now 'Macca' you keep telling us the draft is a lottery so he won't make a lot of difference. The coach has yet to be really proven, he was smart in his first year to let the players play but now he has to coach. We will get a real handle on Chris in the next few years.

As for the percentage I think you might also find they wouldn't have minded if it was a bit higher.

They are well managed but with GC and GWS on the rise it's going to be harder for them to hold a top 8 spot over the next couple of years. You just don't replace champions that easily, they have a couple of really good kids coming through and a few ok's. They won't make up for Enright, Mackie, Bartel, Chapman, Scarlett, Ling, Ablett, Lonergan, Corey, Ottens, Kelly......

[Machsy 2,858]

Can't fault Balme.

[Macca 17,032]

...now 'Macca' you keep telling us the draft is a lottery so he won't make a lot of difference. The coach has yet to be really proven, he was smart in his first year to let the players play but now he has to coach. We will get a real handle on Chris in the next few years.

As for the percentage I think you might also find they wouldn't have minded if it was a bit higher.

They are well managed but with GC and GWS on the rise it's going to be harder for them to hold a top 8 spot over the next couple of years. You just don't replace champions that easily, they have a couple of really good kids coming through and a few ok's. They won't make up for Enright, Mackie, Bartel, Chapman, Scarlett, Ling, Ablett, Lonergan, Corey, Ottens, Kelly......

Where I believe it's "mainly" a lottery, rjay, is in the top 5-10 picks (or the "popular" picks) After those top 10 or so picks, a good recruiter really comes to the fore. Prendergast actually did ok with a number of later picks (albeit, he didn't unearth a gem or an 'A' grader) ... Bad Luck or Bad Recruiting

As a general rule, the expectations surrounding a draft pick number varies wildly as well and because of that, we (the footy public) aren't looking as closely at the picks outside the top 10-15 ... the recruiters are.

As for Geelong, I've stated that they're not a premiership threat right now but I don't believe that they will bottom out either (which was the crux of my original argument) They've got too many good people in place for that to happen and in the meantime, nothing is stopping them from bringing in established talent. After all, isn't that what we're planning to do?

They'd mainly have to do that with free agency, astute trading and identifying talented players later in the draft but doing all that is entirely possible. That's the case for any club but not every club has a Stephen Wells.

I can understand people "wanting" Geelong to fall away but I don't view sport that way.

As for percentage, footy has changed and clubs will put their cue in the rack more and more once they've won games. Port did it last week against the Tigers.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Macca

[whatwhat say what 22,901]

Chris Scott on Chip via abc radio - we want him at Geelong for "a number of reasons", primarily rate him as a player and for his flexibility.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Caddy was bloody good though. Makes you think he was running dead at Gold Coast.

yep, I reckon.

but won't it be Ironic if GCSuns replace the Cats in the top 5 going forward.

[Cards13 9,117]

Balmy also stated on SEN not long ago they have spoken to Frawls manager, but they don't know if he is staying at Melb or not...

[DemonOX 8,800]

Balmy also stated on SEN not long ago they have spoken to Frawls manager, but they don't know if he is staying at Melb or not...

What a load of doggie doodles!!

Please don't treat everyone like fools. (that's not directed at u Cards)

[Cards13 9,117]

What a load of doggie doodles!!

Please don't treat everyone like fools. (that's not directed at u Cards)

The flo gs on sen didnt really follow him up on it either. I assume his manager just happened to be in the cats rooms last night after the game and they bumped into each other thus having a chat.

[Vanilla Gorilla 204]

What a load of doggie doodles!!

lol

[Macca 17,032]

How long has Wells been at Geelong? He doesn't have a wiki page so I don't have the answer. I'm assuming he's been there for 15+ years but I stand corrected. He's certainly got an eye for talent outside the top 5 picks.

Since 1996 and probably further back, they have never had a top 5 pick. They've also only had a handful of picks between 6 & 10 (of which they've snared Corey (8), Mackie (7), Bartel (8) & Selwood (7)

Sure, they got lucky with their F/S (Hawkins, Ablett & Scarlett) but often, you make your own luck.

... the following players were also snared in various drafts ...

Josh Hunt (44)

Wojcinski (24)

Chapman (31)

Ling (38)

Enright (47)

Kelly (17)

Stevie J (24)

Lonergan (23)

Egan (61)

Varcoe (15)

Stokes (61)

Taylor (17)

Motlop (39)

Taylor Hunt (49)

Duncan (28)

Christensen (40)

Guthrie (23)

Podsiadly (58)

... and then there's the trades that they've arranged (Caddy, Ottens etc) Now there's free agency to keep clubs like Geelong up (Rivers has been an acquisition and so might Frawley if he goes there)

... and, who's to say that their more recent draftees won't shine in the future ... as most know, it usually takes between 3 & 5 years for a draftee to start showing his real worth. They've got a good track record of developing their players well.

There overall list management and recruiting has been first rate and I can't see all that reversing all of a sudden and them bottoming out. They're too good a club and we can only wish that we were as well run (we might be on our way with PJ & Roos)

If Frawley goes to the Cats then that is James' decision alone. No one is forcing him to do anything - if he leaves, it's on him.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Macca

[rjay 25,063]

How long has Wells been at Geelong? He doesn't have a wiki page so I don't have the answer. I'm assuming he's been there for 15+ years but I stand corrected. He's certainly got an eye for talent outside the top 5 picks.

Since 1996 and probably further back, they have never had a top 5 pick. They've also only had a handful of picks between 6 & 10 (of which they've snared Corey (8), Mackie (7), Bartel (8) & Selwood (7)

He took over from Bill McMaster in 1995 'Macca'

....a couple of good articles you might be interested in.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/mcmaster-of-his-trade/2009/11/24/1258824712384.html

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/master-geelong-recruiter-stephen-wells-cant-dodge-the-plaudits/story-fni5f22o-1226762008459

[Machsy 2,858]

Yep, Wells chose players and then the coaches developed them, and I think the coaches have more to do with those players successes.

Greg's brother has been head of recruiting since 1999, I think.

[rjay 25,063]

Where I believe it's "mainly" a lottery, rjay, is in the top 5-10 picks (or the "popular" picks) After those top 10 or so picks, a good recruiter really comes to the fore. Prendergast actually did ok with a number of later picks (albeit, he didn't unearth a gem or an 'A' grader) ... Bad Luck or Bad Recruiting

As a general rule, the expectations surrounding a draft pick number varies wildly as well and because of that, we (the footy public) aren't looking as closely at the picks outside the top 10-15 ... the recruiters are.

As for Geelong, I've stated that they're not a premiership threat right now but I don't believe that they will bottom out either (which was the crux of my original argument) They've got too many good people in place for that to happen and in the meantime, nothing is stopping them from bringing in established talent. After all, isn't that what we're planning to do?

They'd mainly have to do that with free agency, astute trading and identifying talented players later in the draft but doing all that is entirely possible. That's the case for any club but not every club has a Stephen Wells.

I can understand people "wanting" Geelong to fall away but I don't view sport that way.

As for percentage, footy has changed and clubs will put their cue in the rack more and more once they've won games. Port did it last week against the Tigers.

Was having a friendly shot at you on the lottery thing 'Macca', I understand your viewpoint on it. Not sure if I fully agree, I think a really good recruiter has a better shot at getting it right.

I've loved watching the Cats play, at least its made footy bearable over the last number of years when our club hasn't but I think they now face a difficult time.

Organisations are always said to be well managed when they are at the top of their game but it's amazing how quickly things can change. Lose a few games and questions start to be asked, trouble makers come out of the woodwork.

The dominance of the Australian cricket team in the Taylor, Waugh,Ponting era is a case in point. We supposedly had the best coaches, best development systems, best management....lose the champions and that changes. Suddenly your management is no good, the shield and development system need an overhaul, our coaches are garbage...

GC & GWS have artificially kept teams like Geelong and Hawthorn at the top of the ladder, now comes the downhill part of those clubs effect on the top teams. Free agency may help them but if they think Frawley will be good for them as a swing man or that Taylor can make it as a forward they have another thing coming.

By the way, as you know there was no percentage to be had in the Port game 'Macca', it was a final. Geelong's poor percentage was due to them being on the slide, they weren't resting they were not as good as they have been. They just had enough in the tank to win the close ones, players like Selwood will them over the line but there is only so much he can do.

[Macca 17,032]

He took over from Bill McMaster in 1995 'Macca'

....a couple of good articles you might be interested in.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/mcmaster-of-his-trade/2009/11/24/1258824712384.html

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/master-geelong-recruiter-stephen-wells-cant-dodge-the-plaudits/story-fni5f22o-1226762008459

Interesting articles rjay ... of course, we had our own master recruiter in Jim Cardwell back in the day. It takes many parts to make a great footy club and Checker Hughes and Ivor Warne-Smith also played a big part in our 50's dominance (from what I've gathered) Plus, you need a great coach, administration and Board.

If a club can tick all the right boxes with the Pres, CEO, chief recruiter, footy manager, coach & captain then it is well on it's way.

I'm probably over generalising things when I call the draft a lottery. In a lot of ways it is a lottery but there are a number of "truths" attached to the draft, the draftees & the recruiters. Anyway, Roos at one stage called it a 'ridiculous lottery' so there you go ...

Flawed is a better way to describe the draft but I often chuckle when I see the same recruiter "lauded" for a great pick and then "chastised" for another pick. A lot of the time there's a lot of luck involved.

Stephen Wells also missed on a number of his picks but he's got a lot "right" over the years.