really? you're happy with that as a result?

besides, I was merely pointing out that your dressing-up of our opponents so far was farcical, GC and Carlton absolute rubbish on the day, GWS still cellar-dwellars and StK for the bottom 5 or so, despite beating Essendon. To get one win from that lot plus a demolition is NOT what I and many others deem satisfactory

You're expectations are ridiculous and, quite frankly, childish given where we're coming from.

We've seen some improvement already and there'll be more by end of year.

Both PJ and Roos have talked about the improvement being in our percentage. I'll listen to either of them (and pretty much everyone else) about footy before I listen to you.

Improvement has come in that our players have only rolled over for a full four quarters once this season. Would have been multiple if not five times by round 5 in previous years. However, they are still rolling over for decent chunks of most matches which is baffling. The one confidence I have is that with Roos speaking at quarter breaks after our atrocious quarters he generally seems to be able to conjure an improved effort. Still to this day can't work out why the players themselves haven't resolved to be desperate for four quarters each week given that effort is the non negotiable at all other AFL clubs and really should be the easiest part for a team short on high level talent to execute. What it means is that the most important attribute of the successor is that he will need to be an excellent motivator (which the better coaches are anyway).

Our tackling numbers and quality have been disappointing.

I still don't feel like our players play with true intent to compete and win at every contest. I reckon a lot of members of our team kind of hope they'll win their contests instead of being desperate to win them.

Why should we "genuinely have won"? Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

I suggest you watch each of those games again. And then watch every single game that we played last year.

And, cop a tip, I understand that we didn't actually win either of those games given that the scoreboard at the end of the game tends to reflect the winner and the loser.

We deserved to win the Saints game and didn't. We didn't deserve to win the Suns game and didn't.

I maintain however that we should have won each of these games.

On any construction, that's an improvement from last year.

really? you're happy with that as a result?

besides, I was merely pointing out that your dressing-up of our opponents so far was farcical, GC and Carlton absolute rubbish on the day, GWS still cellar-dwellars and StK for the bottom 5 or so, despite beating Essendon. To get one win from that lot plus a demolition is NOT what I and many others deem satisfactory

Have you actually watched any Demons games over the past few years? Do you understand where this club is coming from?

The answer is Ground Zero. Our midfield last year was considered the weakest fielded by any club in VFL/AFL history. It was deplorable.

We've come a mile under Roos. A country mile.

I am with P-Man on this. At the moment, I would give it a fail compared to where the rest of the AFL are at right now. From our perspective and where we are at, it's a pass but just a pass as the improvement is there but it is slow.
Then again, maybe it will be slow as hopefully this is a genuine rebuild. I want to believe that this is a complete overhaul of an entire club, it's ethos and philosophies not just a painting over of all the mental fragility and soft underbelly that has defined the club for the last 50 odd years by replacing the playing personnel. The former task will take a lot long that the latter.

Maybe some of the frustration lies with what Roosy has said from the very start? He never came out and made outlandish boasts as in years gone past. It's always been moving away from being a 2 win 50 percentage team (the second stat more damning than the first) and setting minimum standards. There has been no talk of dynasties or premierships to tide over the faithful. Just talk of improving where we are at now. This can be good and bad as making those kind of claims can buy you some time as it gets the supporter base thinking about the future but it can go pear shaped just as quickly if you don't deliver on said outrageous claims.

I don't understand how people can be so disappointed with the season so far.

We're not very good. We all know that. We're a bottom 4 side.

But how could you not have expected this? How could anyone who is a Melbourne supporter have expected us, knowing full well what happened to us in 2012-2013, to come out in 2014 and be winning games regularly?

Whilst we've lost games to weaker sides, the unfortunate reality of what is happening at this club is that we are not a guarantee to be beating anyone, Hawthorn or Brisbane. We are in the process of improving this club, a club that is coming from effectively VFL standard.

So, to be able to say after five rounds that we could have won four of them is a positive, IMO a big one. Over the last two years how many times have we been able to say that? 10? Less?

Some will say 'that's just accepting mediocrity'. No it isn't. No one is saying 'this will do, thanks Roosy, you can go now'. If you acknowledge that this is an early stage, not the end stage, in our path up the ladder, then you realise that this is about right for us.

Swans will be difficult but not out of the realms of possibility, I'm writing off any SA games for now, Dogs & Tigers both very winnable.

Agree mostly although the Swans seemed to get their grunt back last week

You're expectations are ridiculous and, quite frankly, childish given where we're coming from.

We've seen some improvement already and there'll be more by end of year.

Both PJ and Roos have talked about the improvement being in our percentage. I'll listen to either of them (and pretty much everyone else) about footy before I listen to you.

Roos talked about our percentage representing our improvement but so far Stuie we have played majority bottom half sides and our percentage sits at 69.3% so you have no facts to back you up. What C&B says is true you just don't want to accept that.

Have you actually watched any Demons games over the past few years? Do you understand where this club is coming from?

The answer is Ground Zero. Our midfield last year was considered the weakest fielded by any club in VFL/AFL history. It was deplorable.

We've come a mile under Roos. A country mile.

And watch if we get beaten over the next 5 rounds and we will see the same "tough love" given out just like Neeld did. Not much has changed so far apart from a slightly better list, agreed? Neeld didn't have Dawes for the first half of last year, and didn't have Frawley for part of it, and in their place had James Sellar and Jack Fitzpatrick.

I suggest you watch each of those games again. And then watch every single game that we played last year.

And, cop a tip, I understand that we didn't actually win either of those games given that the scoreboard at the end of the game tends to reflect the winner and the loser.

We deserved to win the Saints game and didn't. We didn't deserve to win the Suns game and didn't.

I maintain however that we should have won each of these games.

On any construction, that's an improvement from last year.

"We deserved to win the Saints game and didn't"

Garbage.

The Saints were far more deserving because they took their chances and made the most of them.

Would we have won with Dawes, Clark and Hogen in the side? Perhaps. But on the day, the team did not "deserve" to win. They COULD have won, but they didn't.

I don't understand how people can be so disappointed with the season so far.

We're not very good. We all know that. We're a bottom 4 side.

But how could you not have expected this? How could anyone who is a Melbourne supporter have expected us, knowing full well what happened to us in 2012-2013, to come out in 2014 and be winning games regularly?

Whilst we've lost games to weaker sides, the unfortunate reality of what is happening at this club is that we are not a guarantee to be beating anyone, Hawthorn or Brisbane. We are in the process of improving this club, a club that is coming from effectively VFL standard.

So, to be able to say after five rounds that we could have won four of them is a positive, IMO a big one. Over the last two years how many times have we been able to say that? 10? Less?

Some will say 'that's just accepting mediocrity'. No it isn't. No one is saying 'this will do, thanks Roosy, you can go now'. If you acknowledge that this is an early stage, not the end stage, in our path up the ladder, then you realise that this is about right for us.

Looking at the positives in our performances is one way to go, but unfortunately t.u the numbers tell a different story!!

"We deserved to win the Saints game and didn't"

Garbage.

The Saints were far more deserving because they took their chances and made the most of them.

Would we have won with Dawes, Clark and Hogen in the side? Perhaps. But on the day, the team did not "deserve" to win. They COULD have won, but they didn't.

And we would have been thumped if the had Hayes, Steven, Montagna etc etc etc etc

Roos talked about our percentage representing our improvement but so far Stuie we have played majority bottom half sides and our percentage sits at 69.3% so you have no facts to back you up. What C&B says is true you just don't want to accept that.

It's always going to take a team with so many new players to gel. If you honestly have not seen any improvement from last year then give up talking about footy. Do you think the West Coast game had a big influence on that percentage? You know, West Coast who a lot of experts tipped to finish top 4? It's not as cut and dry as you basic thinkers want it to be.

And watch if we get beaten over the next 5 rounds and we will see the same "tough love" given out just like Neeld did. Not much has changed so far apart from a slightly better list, agreed? Neeld didn't have Dawes for the first half of last year, and didn't have Frawley for part of it, and in their place had James Sellar and Jack Fitzpatrick.

FMD. So Neeld is as good as Roos hey? Neeld was responsible for bringing Sellar, so I'd hardly be using him as an excuse. He also brought over Rodan, Byrnes, Pedersen, Gillies... things are getting REALLY silly here if posters are starting to make excuses for Neeld and trying to say the coaching is of the same standard now.

i'm seeing a noticeable improvement in us in games. we are still really bad, but not AS bad. So that is improvement.

Looking at the positives in our performances is one way to go, but unfortunately t.u the numbers tell a different story!!

No they don't. Gold Coast beat us by 10 goals at the G last year.

Not much has changed so far apart from a slightly better list, agreed?

I don't think I've ever agreed with a single thing you've said.

No, not agreed. Complete disagreement in fact.

Roos talked about our percentage representing our improvement but so far Stuie we have played majority bottom half sides and our percentage sits at 69.3% so you have no facts to back you up. What C&B says is true you just don't want to accept that.

Funy, I just looked at the ladder and West Coast and Saints are both top 8, GCS is 9th... if Roos had all of Dawes, Hogan and Clark from the opening round, the scenario would be very different. To say we are failing is flawed as the game plan obviously cannot work to full effect with a major part of it missing... as was evidenced in the improvement upon Dawes return.

No they don't. Gold Coast beat us by 10 goals at the G last year.

They beat us last year and they beat us this year, let's be honest the scoreboard flattered us last week.

I don't think I've ever agreed with a single thing you've said.

No, not agreed. Complete disagreement in fact.

Ok but the list has changed for the better with the addition of Tyson, Cross,Vince and Georgiou these players have contributed much to our improvement. I think Neeld would of had more success if he had the current list.

Funy, I just looked at the ladder and West Coast and Saints are both top 8, GCS is 9th... if Roos had all of Dawes, Hogan and Clark from the opening round, the scenario would be very different. To say we are failing is flawed as the game plan obviously cannot work to full effect with a major part of it missing... as was evidenced in the improvement upon Dawes return.

Ok so GC and West Coast might make the 8 but St K, Carlton and GWS will be lucky none of which are serious contenders for the flag this year.

If you are saying Roos' game plan is flawed without the injured players, then imagine how Neeld felt because he rarely had either Clark, Dawes and Hogan wasn't their either.

And FFS St Kilda almost had their entire midfield out in round 1, but they still managed to implement a game plan.

FMD. So Neeld is as good as Roos hey? Neeld was responsible for bringing Sellar, so I'd hardly be using him as an excuse. He also brought over Rodan, Byrnes, Pedersen, Gillies... things are getting REALLY silly here if posters are starting to make excuses for Neeld and trying to say the coaching is of the same standard now.

Byrnes and Pederson are in the team tomorrow so why would you highlight them?

And I never said Neeld is as good as Roos, alright stuie. You just said that. So go and FYD

Righto, and what are OUR odds for the flag and what does that tell you?

Maybe concentrate on logic more next time instead of insults.

our odds are based on how we perform you goose, haha

We have improved on last year.

We have been decimated by injuries, which doesn't do our results justice.

Our recruiting has been better than the Neeld years.

We were set back 10 years under Neeld and you can't expect to come back within 5 rounds.

I think we should go to the footy and watch some of the players and note their improvement.

Then at the end of the year when Roos has culled the list of players he wants out, we should again look forward to Round 5 - 2015

They beat us last year and they beat us this year, let's be honest the scoreboard flattered us last week.

Why do you have Daniel Ricciardo in your avatar? He's had as many posium finishes this year as he did last year when he wasn't with Red Bull...