Training - Thursday 24th April, 2014

[Satyriconhome 10,731]

To quote Greg Champion - You can get arrested for that - and so you should (stalking not peeing)

I was going to say the same thing, never thought of that, next time one sneaks away, may try and get a chat then, that should go down weill

Chrisitan Salem and myself both find it rather ironic that after Man Utd were beaten by Everton, then the owners decided to sack Moyes, also talked about Arsenal's and Everton's games this weekend, good to see the young bloke has his priorities right...........pumped for some other reason as well

[ManDee 7,124]

To quote Greg Champion - You can get arrested for that - and so you should (stalking not peeing)

I heard a great defense to public urination.

"Youse coundna seen nuthin. I'd finished pissen when youse pulled up." Guilty as charged.

[JackVineyForPresident 310]

I'm expecting him to lift his work rate and application, as I mentioned earlier so it's not all about statistics.

If he works harder in the contest, runs harder, presents harder, it is more likely that he will get more of the ball, take more marks and therefore have more disposals.

You can see when watching him that he doesn't run hard enough, doesn't attack the contest and definitely plays well within himself. If he changes this and plays like a maniac this week and his disposal count doesn't lift, I won't mind because at least I can then see that he is playing with some kind of effort.

While you're correct in everything you're saying, this still comes back to my main point and against your point.

He is not worthy of being dropped and his numbers have improved this year. Your point was initially that he should be dropped and i still do not agree with you.

He is still a while away from being a great player and sincerely hope he becomes one, but he has made inroads this year

[Little Richard 6,262]

While you're correct in everything you're saying, this still comes back to my main point and against your point.

He is not worthy of being dropped and his numbers have improved this year. Your point was initially that he should be dropped and i still do not agree with you.

He is still a while away from being a great player and sincerely hope he becomes one, but he has made inroads this year

No, it doesn't.

IF he can do these things, I'd be all for keeping him in the side but he doesn't. I think he should be dropped and told to work on it OR as I said earlier, do whatever he can with Roos and the rest of the coaching team to improve the way he goes about it.

[chook fowler 19,446]

I heard a great defense to public urination.

"Youse coundna seen nuthin. I'd finished pissen when youse pulled up." Guilty as charged.

Was a member of Collingwoods cheer squad

[Moonshadow 17,675]

I heard a great defense to public urination.

"Youse coundna seen nuthin. I'd finished pissen when youse pulled up." Guilty as charged.

Has Beamer written all over it....

[ManDee 7,124]

I heard a great defense to public urination.

"Youse coundna seen nuthin. I'd finished pissen when youse pulled up." Guilty as charged.

Was a member of Collingwoods cheer squad

I cannot divulge any further information other than his initials may have been Joffa Corfe. Only joking, although he was wearing a black & white beanie in court.

Edited April 24, 2014 by ManDee

[nutbean 8,838]

No, it doesn't.

IF he can do these things, I'd be all for keeping him in the side but he doesn't. I think he should be dropped and told to work on it OR as I said earlier, do whatever he can with Roos and the rest of the coaching team to improve the way he goes about it.

This is going in circles.

We don't scream for Tom McDonald to be dropped because he was soundly beaten on Sunday.

Whilst Nicholson gets criticised for his disposal ( IMO the reason he is out the team) he doesnt raise the same passion as Watts.

With Jack it is not about Statistics or if he kicks two goals - for me it is not even that I expect more from a no 1 draft pick . It is the way he goes about his football that angers many on here. ( and me)

On the football field I cant kick or mark but I can show effort. This has to be the one non negotiable that every footballer brings to the table - effort.

[Deecisive 1,709]

Anyone know for sure if Salem is in or not, If everyone was giving salem high fives then it sounds as if he is in rather than out. Quite a few of the top draft picks have been playing multiple rounds, Salem sounds as if he is able to deal with the pressure so I see no reason to keep him playing for Casey, the more senior game time we get into these kids the faster they should develop. Also as for Jack, I think Roos has the right of it, if he is not going in hard enough during the game then give him extra tackling practice and have him tackled more at training so that he learns to tackle and he learns to better evade or cope with being tackled. No sense in dropping him when he is still winning more ball than a lot of players even when not playing brilliantly.

[Ouch! 2,258]

I am interested in why you think we are bringing him in too soon.

Robert Shaw his former coach said he is a tough kid, who will handle himself in the AFL. He is not a skinny runt. He is not the first young player to be blooded in the AFL this year. Several of those are doing very well. Our recruiters thought, as does a mate of mine, who has seen him play a lot, that he will be a very good AFL player. He has played at Casey with at least 1 BOG against men. His Coaches have now seen him in action and training.

I don't know if we are bringing him in too soon, I just wonder why you think that. When do you think the right time would be?

Fair enough question... I personally don't think 1 BOG justifies promotion, I would prefer that players are consistently BOG for several weeks and bashing the door down to get selected for the seniors, that being said, I would also like the senior players to be playing at a sufficient enough level to warrant their spots to ward off young kids from taking their places.

Roos has consistently said that we shouldnt expect to see these kids in the seniors in their first year, as it was his intention to educate these kids in the VFL sufficiently that they would be prepared to come into the AFL and not be out of place.... and 3 rounds in the VFL doesn't seem enough. I know Roos also said that age would not be a factor as well...but still.

BOG also doesn't translate to coming into the senior team to play a specific role...

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Salem come in and tear it up on the weekend! I just feel as though Roos is being somewhat disingenuous when he comments about how badly Watts and some of our other players were handled when they were young and not prepared, and yet Salem didn't get a full preseason in, and has played a handful of VFL games is coming in pretty early.

[JackVineyForPresident 310]

This is going in circles.

We don't scream for Tom McDonald to be dropped because he was soundly beaten on Sunday.

Whilst Nicholson gets criticised for his disposal ( IMO the reason he is out the team) he doesnt raise the same passion as Watts.

With Jack it is not about Statistics or if he kicks two goals - for me it is not even that I expect more from a no 1 draft pick . It is the way he goes about his football that angers many on here. ( and me)

On the football field I cant kick or mark but I can show effort. This has to be the one non negotiable that every footballer brings to the table - effort.

It is no longer about being pick 1. That ship has long long sailed. It's been over 5 years.

Ofcourse his hunger needs to improve and obviously i'd like to see his numbers improve.

But if you take sunday out, then his season has been fine, very instrumental in the Carlton game, along with Saints and GWS game in the wet

[Machsy 2,858]

Jack's dispirited performances are cause for concern, but I'll back Roos to make the correct decision on regards to dropping him and furthering his development.

I agree with rpfc that being sent back to the magoos shouldn't be seen as perilous to your career, as the majority here would seem to think.

Work on deficiencies, get your confidence up, earn your place, then come back.

But so far Roos has not made any glaring errors, so I'll back him.

He's got better out of worse in the past.

[Alcho Dee 269]

This is me, I was at training, would not be surprised at all if Salem debuts, had a chat to him afterwards about the Premier League and other things haha

All I could get about Spencer from anybody was he was inside training, would be surprised if he is hamed

Spoke to a couple of the 'wounded'

Kent is still a week away, Michie 2 weeks (has a plate in his jaw, and lost a wisdom tooth

Riley is now on unrestricted game time, would not like to be playing against him this week, wants to get his name in the frame for the Adelaide game, asked him if he really lkes hurting opponents legally, you can guess the answer

Nev Jetta's feedback was he had played the role he was instructed to play

Bumped into Jesse Hogan on Swan St before training, getting frustrated, can't seem to shake it off when ramping up the training, Club is looking at all avenues to find the exact problem, told him to keep his chin up and he gave me a thumbs up

For all the Watts fans out there, he did extra tackling drills and got knocked around quite a bit

Luke Tapscott is finally ready to play, had a laugh about how normally he can't get through pre season, was overjoyed when he did nearly the whole of it and thinks he jinxed himself, thinks he might carry a lucky stone in his sock.

And if he is picked for all the other haters it will be Roh Bail's 50th game

Great report Satriconhome and much appreciated again. Great to hear that Watts is doing extra work on the hard stuff.

Big chance for Salem to show his stuff on Saturday night as Sydney won't know much about the way he plays.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Hang on....let me get this right......If he looks really keen, runs around all day LOOKING keen and willing but not getting a kick..That's alright..Or looks laconic and not being bothered but gets 18 possessions ....Kicks a couple of goal and lays 4 tackles....That's wrong......Ok I get it now.

Which JW do you want?????

Edited April 24, 2014 by Bossdog

[JackVineyForPresident 310]

Hang on....let me get this right......If he looks really keen, runs around all day LOOKING keen and willing but not getting a kick..That's alright..Or looks laconic and not being bothered but gets 18 possessions ....Kicks a couple of goal and lays 4 tackles....That's wrong......Ok I get it now.

Which JW do you want?????

Absolutely!!

God forbid he looked keen and got 8 disposals, he'd be considered a no hoper.

Jack will come good and he has started the year well. I am convinced Sunday was a once off and im sure he has been spoken to about certain bits of play that look pretty soft.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

Hang on....let me get this right......If he looks really keen, runs around all day LOOKING keen and willing but not getting a kick..That's alright..Or looks laconic and not being bothered but gets 18 possessions ....Kicks a couple of goal and lays 4 tackles....That's wrong......Ok I get it now.

Which JW do you want?????

Why do we have to choose?

I think half the problem with Watts is the lack of skills in all the other players makes him stand out for his good skills. But his effort on Sunday was a joke. He may have been credited with 4 tackles but he ran 2 guys down and was pushed off like a little child. He failed to put his body on the line in marking contests and he didn't attack the ball at ground level. It was (another) insipid performance.

For too long the lack of skill and talent in the rest of the list has been the convenient excuse as to why Watts is important.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

Absolutely!!

God forbid he looked keen and got 8 disposals, he'd be considered a no hoper.

Jack will come good and he has started the year well. I am convinced Sunday was a once off and im sure he has been spoken to about certain bits of play that look pretty soft.

How can you say Sunday was a once off? Against West Coast and GWS he still led the team in soft actions. Plus he's been doing it his entire career. Sunday was the first time the bad far out weighed the good but the bad has been bubbling away under the surface the entire season.

[What 18,810]

hoping Watts has been dropped

absolutely no room in the team for a guy that is scared of physical contact

Wouldn't get a game at any other club

[Little Richard 6,262]

Hang on....let me get this right......If he looks really keen, runs around all day LOOKING keen and willing but not getting a kick..That's alright..Or looks laconic and not being bothered but gets 18 possessions ....Kicks a couple of goal and lays 4 tackles....That's wrong......Ok I get it now.

Which JW do you want?????

Where did I say I don't care if he doesn't get any kicks? If you read more closely, you'll see that I think if he put in more effort and his disposal count and other stats didn't lift from where they are at the moment (which are too low anyway), I wouldn't be so annoyed with him as I am when he doesn't try at all.

Anyway, more effort is what I want and more involvement in the game will come from that.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Django

[ManDee 7,124]

hoping Watts has been dropped

absolutely no room in the team for a guy that is scared of physical contact

Wouldn't get a game at any other club

I really dislike these empty statements.

We will never know unless he leaves. If that happens you will blame him for leaving then forget your grandiose statement.

I have one for you. Every other club would love to have him.

[JackVineyForPresident 310]

How can you say Sunday was a once off? Against West Coast and GWS he still led the team in soft actions. Plus he's been doing it his entire career. Sunday was the first time the bad far out weighed the good but the bad has been bubbling away under the surface the entire season.

Firstly, that is absolute rubbish. The GWS and West Coast game was not soft... Forget the dropped mark against West Coast because that is a skill error, which is not Jack's issue.

He absolutely needs to become harder, i must agree with that. But some of this is just way too harsh.

hoping Watts has been dropped

absolutely no room in the team for a guy that is scared of physical contact

Wouldn't get a game at any other club

I am not hoping that he is dropped because we literally have no one to use the footy. If Jack gets the ball 20 times, that could potentially change the game. We cannot survive without his vision, ability to make time and ball use. You need to seriously think about what he actually provides Melbourne. Also a perfect set shot.

"Wouldnt get a game at any other club": ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. ABSOLUTE RUBBISH

[Alcho Dee 269]

Firstly, that is absolute rubbish. The GWS and West Coast game was not soft... Forget the dropped mark against West Coast because that is a skill error, which is not Jack's issue.

He absolutely needs to become harder, i must agree with that. But some of this is just way too harsh.

I am not hoping that he is dropped because we literally have no one to use the footy. If Jack gets the ball 20 times, that could potentially change the game. We cannot survive without his vision, ability to make time and ball use. You need to seriously think about what he actually provides Melbourne. Also a perfect set shot.

"Wouldnt get a game at any other club": ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. ABSOLUTE RUBBISH

I agree he is a great set shot although he has had pretty straight forward set shots this year.

The problem with what you say here is that he doesn't consistently get 20 disposals and we can survive without him, on the weekend for example, we would have been better to sub him off instead of Tyson, his efforts were so bad that even training reports have turned into Jack Watts threads.

The problem is we don't have a team which he can just feed off, we need him to work harder and put in Nick Riewoldt type efforts, the frustrating thing with Watts is that we all know he is capable of that.

[Pennant St Dee 13,118]

I was going to say the same thing, never thought of that, next time one sneaks away, may try and get a chat then, that should go down weill

Chrisitan Salem and myself both find it rather ironic that after Man Utd were beaten by Everton, then the owners decided to sack Moyes, also talked about Arsenal's and Everton's games this weekend, good to see the young bloke has his priorities right...........pumped for some other reason as well

Been an Evertonian since I was 4 years of age Saty, first time in my lifetime we have beaten United home and away in the same season. I can't thank Moyes enough for delivering us Martinez!

[JackVineyForPresident 310]

I agree he is a great set shot although he has had pretty straight forward set shots this year.

The problem with what you say here is that he doesn't consistently get 20 disposals and we can survive without him, on the weekend for example, we would have been better to sub him off instead of Tyson, his efforts were so bad that even training reports have turned into Jack Watts threads.

The problem is we don't have a team which he can just feed off, we need him to work harder and put in Nick Riewoldt type efforts, the frustrating thing with Watts is that we all know he is capable of that.

Ohh i dont disagree, we definitely should'nt have subbed off Tyson. But Jetta and Terlich were far worse than Watts.

In the first half i remember Terlich running with the footy, under a small amount of pressure. Kicks it out on the full 30 rows back. Seriously that should've been enough of a sign.

Jack needs to work harder, but we still need him. If he can rack up 17+ disposals each week then it will make him into a good footballer. If jack turns a corner in the way he runs on the field, he will turn into a 25 disposal player. But at the moment he is progressing

[Adam The God 30,129]

I believe the word you are looking for is 'liability' and he is often that when he's completely fit.

We need Jamar or even Gawn fit and ready to come in as soon as possible.

Problem is, Jamar has been an even greater liability around the ground. Tap-wise, he just taps to his feet too. I dunno. I'd prefer to keep persevering with Spencer to be honest. Jamar's done. I guess we shall see.

Spencer is a 'liability' fit or unfit.

The sooner Gawn or Jamar are ready, the better for our team.

At least we know they can execute the fundemental skills of the game. And compete in the air. And have some idea of where to run. And can tap to advantage. And can snag a goal. And....

The list goes on.

We will see an improvement, even if only a small one when Spencer is not playing.

Completely disagree, Steve. I feel like people either weren't watching last year (or essentially since 2011) or they have very short memories. Spencer was brought into the side, because Jamar wouldn't work at all around the ground. His tap work has been ordinary (that's being kind) since his one good year of AFL footy in 2010. They might bring Jamar in to give Spencer a week off for a rest, but Jamar's skills are no better than Spencer, he has very little idea on positioning and rarely takes contested marks for a bloke of his size.

If you look at his stats from each game - http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-melbourne-demons--jack-watts, he has clearly been going backwards every week.

Not only statistically but in his application and hardness at the ball, which was clear watching the game on Sunday. He needs to bloody lift or go back to Casey.

Disagree again, mate. His hardness is still not good enough and last week was simply not up to AFL standard. However, I've seen progress for him each week. He's actually trying to lay some tackles. I think Roos will get him there. It's going to take this season though. Last week was certainly a step backwards for him, but the rest of the season he has been showing signs of progress.