Changes v Carlton - Round 4

[Deespicable 2,724]

The good news is that we are back at the MCG and playing a team that is also 0-3.

The Blues also have their share of injuries with Kreuzer and Judd out.

Brocky is unlikely to get back in to torment us this week, but bruise-free Robbo will be keen to again make us look insipid.

There's sure to be plenty of discussion among selectors this week.

Do we rush in Jamar to replace Fitzy, whose form as back up ruckman/forward has been lamentable? Or does Fitzy get another crack in the hope that dry conditions will suit him better?

Who starts as tall forwards this week? Howey got his confidence back last week by getting easier kicks in defence, but he's one of the few natural forwards we have.

Pedo surely made his case as a defender and Tom Mc did a better job against Cameron, so there's probably no need for Frawley to play back again this week because the Blues aren't huge up forward - Waite, Henderson and I expect Casboult to replace Rowe - would seem the right match-ups for Tom Mc, Georgiou and Pedo.

Could Pedo play on Casboult (or Rowe) and then back-up Spencer in ruck given the Blues have only Warnock as main ruckman?

The Blues do have plenty of quick lively forwards - Garlett, Menzel, Yarran, Ellard - so we will need pace down back.

But has Terlich lost it with Roosy, or will Roosy want him to play to give him a chance to make amends?

Our two best in the VFL - aside from Jetta - were Clisby and McKenzie. Do they get in or was Trengove's demotion just a deliberate one week thing to fire him up a bit?

Given we lost the tackle count by about 40, surely McKenzie gets the nod to supply grunt. Maybe he could tag Robbo and make him earn every bruise-free kick?

Can we afford to play three small forwards - Byrnes, Kent and JKH - surely one has to go?

Did Evans and Kent do enough on promotion or do they get another game to show their stuff?

Ultimately I can't see Roosy making many changes and he's limited in options when it comes to bigs.

But for me, I just can't see how we can continue to play Fitzy, and Byrnes did not set the world on fire before being subbed out.

I also hope that we give JFK a go as a starter and use Kent as the sub.

Out: Fitzy, Byrnes and maybe Terlich (if Roos wants to make point).

In: McKenzie, Clisby and maybe Jamar (if deemed fit enough to play 60 per cent game time. Obviously like everyone I'd prefer Dawes or Hogan, but that ain't going to happen this week).

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

i don't even know anymore.

Edited April 7, 2014 by The Song Formerly Known As

[stuie 7,374]

IN: Clisby, McKenzie, Blease

OUT: JKH, Byrnes, Terlich

These aren't the changes I want necessarily, but the ones I think will happen.

Trengove and Toumpas were OK, but they should be dominating not playing ok, give them another week. Jamar and Riley both played about 3 quarters so they will be another couple of weeks before AFL I think. Jetta was probably Casey's best player today, but can't be elevated.

Not much else we can do, Fitzy needs to go back to VFL but we have no one ready to come in.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

IN: Clisby, McKenzie, Blease

OUT: JKH, Byrnes, Terlich

These aren't the changes I want necessarily, but the ones I think will happen.

Trengove and Toumpas were OK, but they should be dominating not playing ok, give them another week. Jamar and Riley both played about 3 quarters so they will be another couple of weeks before AFL I think. Jetta was probably Casey's best player today, but can't be elevated.

Not much else we can do, Fitzy needs to go back to VFL but we have no one ready to come in.

i think JKH needs to be given a full game. Is getting better by every minute he plays, and the way he would launch from one tackle to another, showed more spirit than just about anyone on the team.

[jumbo returns 6,739]

OUT: Byrnes, Terlich, Spencer, Grimes, Watts, Bail

IN: JKH, Clisby, Blease, McKenzie, Trengove (time to blood) Salem...mebbe Toumpas off half back.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Out: Spencer, Byrnes.

In: Jamar, Clisby.

[45HG 1,539]

Out: Theme song when running out

In: Feels like we only go backwards

[Gorgoroth 12,924]

In: ....

Out: my care factor

[Bobby McKenzie 2,383]

OUT: Byrnes, Terlich, Spencer, Grimes, Watts, Bail

IN: JKH, Clisby, Blease, McKenzie, Trengove (time to blood) Salem...mebbe Toumpas off half back.

Watts wrong with your thinking here Jumbo?

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

IN Barassi............ 's famous quote, "if it is to be, it's up to me

Out: We're just no bloody good

[jumbo returns 6,739]

Watts wrong with your thinking here Jumbo?

I think JW won't get dropped BMcK, but he did have a shocker.

I would have loved to see him take that mark over Scully..

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

Out: Terlich In: Clisby

Out: Byrnes In: McKenzie

Out: JKH In: Blease

FB: Grimes Pedersen Georgiou

HB: Howe McDonald Clisby

C: Watts N. Jones Cross

HF: Vince Frawley Bail

FF: Kent Fitzpatrick Dunn

Foll: Spencer McKenzie Tyson

Int: Viney M. Jones Evans
S: Blease

- Unfortunately nothing can be done with Fitzy until Jamar is ready and that's probably another week away.

- Worth trying Frawley and Dunn forward again although either Georgiou or Pedersen have to take on Waite which is dangerous, McDonald to Henderson I'd think

- Blease/JKH swap to give the kid a fresh run in the 2's

- McKenzie in to lock down hard on Murphy or Gibbs, free up Cross to use his running game more on a wing and then we can try some of our better mids resting forward

- Keep the faith with Kent, Evans and Bail another week but get rid of Byrnes, offers nothing

If there is one player who can rebound from a bad game and give us a surprise lift in confidence it has to be Spencer. Mumford on a wet day in a stoppage based game, he was always going to be up against it. He'll get Warnock now. Same tall, unco, untalented type of player and he'll get Carlton's largely one paced small midfielders to deal with as well. His got the strength for Warnock, got the support with Greg Stafford, Carlton will be playing Rowe as a back up so he can rest and Fitzy can ruck against him so he doesn't have to worry about 2 guys going at him. It's a bit of a sorry reflection of where we are at but I'm serious if we are to make a statement about bruise free footy and contested ball then Jake Spencer has to start it off in the ruck.

[stuie 7,374]

i think JKH needs to be given a full game. Is getting better by every minute he plays, and the way he would launch from one tackle to another, showed more spirit than just about anyone on the team.

I agree he needs a full game after being sub for 3 weeks, but he doesn't have the tank for AFL yet, so give him a few full games at VFL.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I agree he needs a full game after being sub for 3 weeks, but he doesn't have the tank for AFL yet, so give him a few full games at VFL.

Making him sub three games in a row and then dropping him to the VFL due to not having the tank?

He of all our draftees from last year has completed the most work over the pre-season and he won't be playing midfield if given a full game anyway.

He should definitely not be dropped after the weekend. If anyone was watching closely enough they would have seen that his intensity and attack on the ball and player was pretty impressive for a bloke of his size and in those conditions.

He definitely shouldn't be dropped, in fact I'd be in disbelief if he was dropped due to 'form'.

He showed far more fight and intent then a handful or more of our more senior players on the weekend.

[stuie 7,374]

Making him sub three games in a row and then dropping him to the VFL due to not having the tank?

He of all our draftees from last year has completed the most work over the pre-season and he won't be playing midfield if given a full game anyway.

He should definitely not be dropped after the weekend. If anyone was watching closely enough they would have seen that his intensity and attack on the ball and player was pretty impressive for a bloke of his size and in those conditions.

He definitely shouldn't be dropped, in fact I'd be in disbelief if he was dropped due to 'form'.

He showed far more fight and intent then a handful or more of our more senior players on the weekend.

He was spent by the end of playing a half in the NAB cup.

It's his first year.

We're trying to develop young players, not destroy them.

So yes, he should go and play a few full games at VFL level.

[Deemotivated 550]

Agree. Start JKH and if he blows up sub him.

[stuie 7,374]

Agree. Start JKH and if he blows up sub him.

And if we have injuries?

Terrible plan.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Spencer - Jamar

Byrnes - Blease

Terlich - Clisby

Bail - Mckenzie

B: Clisby Pederson Gerorgiou

HB: Howe Mcdonald Cross

C: Watts Viney Vince

hf: Dunn Fitzpatrick Blease

F: JKH Frawley Grimes

FOL: Jamar N.jones Tyson

i

[stuie 7,374]

From the MFC website...

"Jamar was on limited game time – he played around 70 minutes – and finished with 11 disposals and a bunch of effective hit-outs. The big ruckman still needs around two to three weeks of consistent VFL football before being considered for senior selection, according to Welsh."

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-04-06/trengove-finds-form-in-vfl

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

He was spent by the end of playing a half in the NAB cup.

It's his first year.

We're trying to develop young players, not destroy them.

So yes, he should go and play a few full games at VFL level.

I think you're underestimating how much work the guy has done Stuie.

He is fit, he has been sub three times in three games and has come on late in all games. Two of which he played forward and then against GWS he had a stint in the midfield.

I am more than sure he has the capability to play a full game as a crumbing forward, his most natural position.

You do understand that the midfield and forward pockets are completely different positions Stuie? That also translates to requiring completely different fitness bases...

Unless sore or injured from a collision or something similar, he is not going to need a rest in the VFL for a full game. You're not entirely making sense.

Edited April 7, 2014 by stevethemanjordan

[stuie 7,374]

I think you're underestimating how much work the guy has done Stuie.

He is fit, he has been sub three times in three games and has come on late in all games. Two of which he played forward and then against GWS he had a stint in the midfield.

I am more than sure he has the capability to play a full game as a crumbing forward, his most natural position.

You do understand the midfield and forward pockets are completely different positions Stuie? That also translates to requiring completely different fitness bases...

Unless sore or injured from a collision or something similar, he is not going to need a rest in the VFL for a full game. Your not entirely making sense.

He's a first year player. He's had one preseason. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE him, but he doesn't have the tank yet. Watch the Richmond game again, he was spent by the end and he only played a half. He'll be sensational for us, but the fact he's been sub 3 weeks in a row should tell you something. Doesn't matter what position you play, you're gonna have to run.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

I think you're underestimating how much work the guy has done Stuie.

He is fit, he has been sub three times in three games and has come on late in all games. Two of which he played forward and then against GWS he had a stint in the midfield.

I am more than sure he has the capability to play a full game as a crumbing forward, his most natural position.

You do understand the midfield and forward pockets are completely different positions Stuie? That also translates to requiring completely different fitness bases...

Unless sore or injured from a collision or something similar, he is not going to need a rest in the VFL for a full game. Your not entirely making sense.

I think for me the biggest thing is developing, he should be able to play a more dominant role in the 2's and i'm sure he will be asked to go back there and work on bits and pieces, he probably hasn't got a full game at AFL tempo in him at the minute

[Little Richard 6,262]

Out: Terlich In: Clisby

Out: Byrnes In: McKenzie

Out: JKH In: Blease

FB: Grimes Pedersen Georgiou

HB: Howe McDonald Clisby

C: Watts N. Jones Cross

HF: Vince Frawley Bail

FF: Kent Fitzpatrick Dunn

Foll: Spencer McKenzie Tyson

Int: Viney M. Jones Evans

S: Blease

- Unfortunately nothing can be done with Fitzy until Jamar is ready and that's probably another week away.

- Worth trying Frawley and Dunn forward again although either Georgiou or Pedersen have to take on Waite which is dangerous, McDonald to Henderson I'd think

- Blease/JKH swap to give the kid a fresh run in the 2's

- McKenzie in to lock down hard on Murphy or Gibbs, free up Cross to use his running game more on a wing and then we can try some of our better mids resting forward

- Keep the faith with Kent, Evans and Bail another week but get rid of Byrnes, offers nothing

If there is one player who can rebound from a bad game and give us a surprise lift in confidence it has to be Spencer. Mumford on a wet day in a stoppage based game, he was always going to be up against it. He'll get Warnock now. Same tall, unco, untalented type of player and he'll get Carlton's largely one paced small midfielders to deal with as well. His got the strength for Warnock, got the support with Greg Stafford, Carlton will be playing Rowe as a back up so he can rest and Fitzy can ruck against him so he doesn't have to worry about 2 guys going at him. It's a bit of a sorry reflection of where we are at but I'm serious if we are to make a statement about bruise free footy and contested ball then Jake Spencer has to start it off in the ruck.

Some good points in there.

Regarding Spencer, I don't think he can really 'bounce back' after a bad game because he's really hit his ceiling as an AFL footballer I feel. I love his aggression and endeavour which is top 5 in the 22 but he just doesn't have the skills or awareness and his tap work is constantly found wanting. We need Jamar or Gawn in ASAP but ASAP probably won't be this week.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

Any player that is dropped must serve a minimum 2-3 weeks in the twos so that they are made to understand. Being dropped for a week then brought back serves little purpose. The fact that people are calling for McKenzie to return further highlights the fact how devoid of depth we actually are.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Al's Demons

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Any player that is dropped must serve a minimum 2-3 weeks in the twos so that they are made to understand. Being dropped for a week then brought back serves little purpose. The fact that people are calling for McKenzie to return further highlights the fact how devoid of depth we actually are.

I'd go as far as saying they stay there until they're too good to ignore, we should have players in the 1's that are desperate to hole their spot, not giving us reasons to drop them