Agree with what you and Scoop have said

Wanted to add although it had to happen rightly or wrongly (moving on Bailey and Neeld) has also set the club back a long way as development (if any) and list management was thrown out the door with the new regimes....

We are years behind the competition in terms of development and players - I believe the only way to get back on top is back in the Roos regime to the hilt. We can't keep chopping and changing and expect batter results will happen instantly

That's my 2 cents anyway

Agree that we need to back the Roos regime. He is a proven coach and a proven manager of people - we are very fortunate we have him on board steering the ship instead of some unknown who could take the club further back.

I do take comfort from having him there and will back in his list management and understanding of where we're at. What made last year so hard was that in addition to the thrashings, I didn't agree with Neeld's list management strategy and had no confidence in the direction he was taking us.

I feel for watts. he starts to build in the mid field and roos decides he has to go forward. I know he is tall and quick, but the kid can't play that position - that much has been demonstrated time after timer after time... it frustrates me seeing him there. its just crushing any hope he has to develop a skill set in any area of the ground, he's been swapped around so much, what hope has he had?

Which bit do you mean? The dropped chest mark after he ran 30m to make position?

I understand the despair. I was there and witnessed exactly what you all saw. This is where I'm confused. I can't understand why I was able to sit and not feel as disappointed as those around me. As 14 goal losses go, and we've seen enough in recent years to be able to compare, I thought this was not as bad as some. Our players were always going to be outclassed. Anybody who seriously thought we would be challenging WC for a win were deluding themselves from the start. I sat and watched as the predictable outcome played itself out. Strangely though I was not angry. I was not frustrated. I was not all that disappointed. As a teacher, I know that sometimes you get a class that really struggles to grasp the basics. There's no point in getting annoyed with them. It's just as Roos said, they need to be taught the basics and work within a set of minimum expectations. I hope Roos and his assistants have the patience to do this. At the end of the year it will be pretty clear who can and can't meet the grade levels required to continue on to the following year. So, whilst I was not happy with the ease with which we were beaten, I thought I saw signs of hope. There is a game plan and they are trying to stick to it. When they get better at executing the skills required, we will start to be a challenge for a few sides. When we have a forward line, we might be able to combine the good work done in the midfield with some sound defence and actually kick a few goals each quarter. I think we can still turn this around and suspect that the second half of the season will see some improvement. Having said all that, I'm not sure I want to sit and watch too many more games like yesterday's.

In the meantime, I'll stay as positive as I can and look for the small steps toward lasting improvement.

I felt the same.

At least we didn't give up. They had a crack. They were physically overwhelmed but Jones, Dyson and Cross were really the only two IMO that put their bodies on the line and threw themselves into each contest. I guess Spencer did as well but we gained no benefit at all from him doing that.

We lost the first 8 centre clearances, were pushed off the ball far to easily and made basic errors.

Its not the worst loss I have seen from this mob. far from it.

I felt the same.

At least we didn't give up. They had a crack. They were physically overwhelmed but Jones, Dyson and Cross were really the only two IMO that put their bodies on the line and threw themselves into each contest. I guess Spencer did as well but we gained no benefit at all from him doing that.

We lost the first 8 centre clearances, were pushed off the ball far to easily and made basic errors.

Its not the worst loss I have seen from this mob. far from it.

It is actually a sad indictment on the club, that this is in fact so true for many of us, but is there truly any comfort in knowing that?

I feel for watts. he starts to build in the mid field and roos decides he has to go forward. I know he is tall and quick, but the kid can't play that position - that much has been demonstrated time after timer after time... it frustrates me seeing him there. its just crushing any hope he has to develop a skill set in any area of the ground, he's been swapped around so much, what hope has he had?

His debut and development wasn't ideal but he is a big unit now and runs around like he's 60kg.

He is the typical unaccountable demon footballer. He must put his body on the line and he must attack the contest instead of waiting for the easy ball.... He is not alone though!

I also took my son to his first game yesterday, fortunately he's only 1 so has no idea of the lifetime of torment I've inflicted upon him. When I got home my wife said she actually felt sorry for our son and not in a condescending or mocking way, she was being heartfelt.

The best part of the day was when he saw the camels outside gate 3, should have gone home after that.

This happens to me every year, my son is now 12 and he used to love footy, he came to the saints game last week with new hope, but after the game said i thought we were going to be better this year dad.

Didnt come yesterday for obvious reasons.

This is what this team has done, it has killed the love of football for so many young Dees......

My son has seen three wins in five years of watching footy, thats a disgrace, football shouldnt be like this.

He won't make it then.

only as a bit player unless something changes radically...

This happens to me every year, my son is now 12 and he used to love footy, he came to the saints game last week with new hope, but after the game said i thought we were going to be better this year dad.

Didnt come yesterday for obvious reasons.

This is what this team has done, it has killed the love of football for so many young Dees......

My son has seen three wins in five years of watching footy, thats a disgrace, football shouldnt be like this.

Yeah I was in a tugga war with Hitler over who our son should support.

She demanded he barrack for Essendon. Bit short of choices my son.

Yeah I was in a tugga war with Hitler over who our son should support.

She demanded he barrack for Essendon. Bit short of choices my son.

In my relationship, the leader of the opposition barracks for hawthorn, i wish id let him go for them instead to save him all the misery.

It's just so depressing when you watch a round of AFL footy and see some great games, close contests and tight battles, and then you rock up to watch your team (something that we all love doing) and the game is not even a contest at any stage. You get nothing from it - no highlights, no memorable passage of play, nothing to enjoy - and perhaps even worse you don't feel any emotion. I just sat there watching the game totally withdrawn, with no rage and no anger at what was unfolding in front of me. Can you imagine a more peaceful 100 point loss? Normally you would feel gutted, but not us Melbourne supporters, we've had it all beaten out of us to the point where we just turn up waiting for it to happen.

I'm glad I booked tickets to the Haw/Geel Easter Monday game at the start of the season so I'll get to see at least 1 good game live this year. The competition has been great for the last 10 years unfortunately we have been so bad during that whole period that we have missed out on seeing some genuinely great modern footy live. Watching on TV is one thing but nothing beats the atmosphere of a big game where both clubs know they are a chance at winning. How long has it been since that happened for us? The Richmond/Carlton Elimination Final last year wasn't a great game but being there live the atmosphere was cracking.

I think I'm going to start using my AFL membership to attend more neutral games this year because I'm sick of taking about 5 hours (including travel etc) out of my weekend to be bored, frustrated, disappointed and depressed for another year.

I think I'm going to start using my AFL membership to attend more neutral games this year because I'm sick of taking about 5 hours (including travel etc) out of my weekend to be bored, frustrated, disappointed and depressed for another year.

I will go to home games this year but will be watching more Storm games as well. Who knows? I might even cross the Rubicon and watch the Melbourne Rebels? NFL is also a big chance to get some serious hours logged in.

This happens to me every year, my son is now 12 and he used to love footy, he came to the saints game last week with new hope, but after the game said i thought we were going to be better this year dad.

Didnt come yesterday for obvious reasons.

This is what this team has done, it has killed the love of football for so many young Dees......

My son has seen three wins in five years of watching footy, thats a disgrace, football shouldnt be like this.

That really sucks and is the thing that hurts almost as bad as being so poor, the fact that we are disenfranchising a generation of supporters after doing the same through the 70's/early 80's. We can't afford to bleed support but the way we are going we will have less members than the Dogs in 10 years, we already have less than North now.

I remember back to when I was 6, 7, 8 years old going to the footy (1988, 89, 90) and believing we could win every week and getting to see us not only win but make and win finals although falling short of the premiership. I can't imagine having to keep the faith as a kid that young watching this crap for 7 years going on 8. That's an entire lifetime of watching footy as a youth and I think if I were that age I would have lost all interest in footy by now or at least the Demons and just watch the big games on TV.

In my relationship, the leader of the opposition barracks for hawthorn, i wish id let him go for them instead to save him all the misery.

My wife is Geelong, I'm going to have a hard time trying to keep him a Demon in the future if our predicament doesn't change, especially when he has a few premiership DVD's he can grab out and watch when he wants to watch some real footy.

40,000 is a pipe dream unless we make finals in ten years time maybe.

Probably, no definitely too slow and not strong enough to be a small defender.

So exactly what was he drafted for / Can somebody remind me? please!

In my relationship, the leader of the opposition barracks for hawthorn, i wish id let him go for them instead to save him all the misery.

In mine the ex Minister for Police and Riots barracks for Carlton. When one of mine was 8 she said she wanted to switch to mums team - Carlton. I said to the wife - " I can happily accept having two daughters and no boy to carry on my name. I can't accept living with a Carlton supporter". So the wife switched to Melbourne and we all lived miserably ever after.

The guy's a professional footballer. Versatility, at that height, should be his strength. I don't feel sorry for him at all. Him, with many others, should be dragging us out of this heap we're in. Some hardness would go a long way to changing both his fortunes and perceptions.

He failed to impose himself on a single contest. Just not good enough and he doesn't need any pity.

I agree with you, he has all those attributes, but we have never seen him play even relatively competetive in the forward line. I just don't know why we persist with 'hay lets put watts in the forward line'. he was clearly instrumental running through with the mids. I would prefer we left him there and put dunn of tom mcdonald forward (tom was drafted as a fwd) - tom at the very least would make a fantastic hard running decoy for a fat peterson or dunn. that takes defenders out of the back line, but it might be better then taking out mids.

And your right he needs to go harder, but his efforts and the rest of the teams efforts are evident that there is a mental state present that is the result of drubbing after drubbing. They are elite sportsman, but i can guarantee any body here would be hard pressed to maintain a healthy mental state having experienced what those players have.

Im afraid this is not going to be fixed any time soon. A one or 2 player shift is not going to fix this issue. (I hope it could, but i have no confidence in it.)

to be completive at all, yes we need our forwards back in, Who knows when they're coming back.

Our best chance of being competitive in the future is developing the players we have drafted, future drafts, and at the end of this year we need a big recruitment. (and no doubt to fit in these new recruits, we need a culling as brutal as that sounds)

I think i would like to see us target some forwards and mids. and probably backmen too lol.

I have seen some thoughts throughout the thread that I recognise from my own long years of support.

comments 208,258 and 271 could have been written by me.

I saw so many times players running into space when we won the ball or a rare free kick whilst the player with the ball ignored or did not see the opportunity and was often called to play on and selected the wrong option.

I saw that even on kicking out whoever was performing stalled looking for options eventually being called to play on until they took the wrong one in panic.

I saw players standing in space uncertain as to which W C player to to tackle or chase and by the time they made a panicked decision it was too late.

I reckon Roos needs to watch a few videos with the boys of other teams and then see the difference between some of our play.

I think he is right it is a lack of confidence and the uncertainty that is created from that.

The players dont seem to trust their teammates or themselves.

I think thats why Jones Cross and very few others, look so much better, they do trust themselves and their actions and just keep going. Of course they also make mistakes but 3 mistakes out of 30 looks more impressive than 3 out of 6.

Shepherding, making space, running with a player tackling seem foreign skills to our side. When it is done those around the performing player seem to stop and watch rather than get involved.

West Coast players had time to do things as our players seemed so uncertain as to what to do and were laying off players rather than attacking the ball.

I was willing to give Bailey and Neeld some time, I recognised that we may not have had all the cattle but said the coach had to work with what they had and eventually committed to the sack the coach approach.

The task for Roos is still huge and game plans and strategies obviously difficult with injuries but he must still make it work.

I saw more intensity and I saw less dropping of shoulders but not for sustained periods or at the right time. Confidence is a strange ability and I hope Roos can lift that factor to allow the many fine players and skills that we have to emerge in a more sustained fashion.

Watch how other teams do it they do not have any different things to us some have champions and match winners, some are older or bigger but all have a mix of slow, fast, good, bad players. It is the essence of teamwork that all these components work together and it is the coaches responsibility to get that working. I think Roos can do it because any other thought is impossible to contemplate.

Sorry rant over I feel better now

We need some big beefy types who can take a grab.

Hogans the best recruit weve had in years next to Tyson....its just unfortunate hows its panned out so far with the injuries.

We need some big beefy types who can take a grab.

Hogans the best recruit weve had in years next to Tyson....its just unfortunate hows its panned out so far with the injuries.

Do you know what we play Hogan he gets smashed, if we can't create space in our forward half with no talls how are we going to create space when then are back. Having talls will be great but we need to find a way to create space in our forward 50m arc, this is the problem in both games Saints and WCE they just sat back across half back and counter attacked. They know our team isn't good enough to hit targets so they just flood back and wait for the back kick that will come. Turnover, run hard forward score, Nothing will change that until we can move the ball fast and hit targets. You can have Wayne Carey in his prime in our forward line at the moment and he wouldn't get the footy, he would end up belting someone out of shear frustration.

That really sucks and is the thing that hurts almost as bad as being so poor, the fact that we are disenfranchising a generation of supporters after doing the same through the 70's/early 80's. We can't afford to bleed support but the way we are going we will have less members than the Dogs in 10 years, we already have less than North now.

I remember back to when I was 6, 7, 8 years old going to the footy (1988, 89, 90) and believing we could win every week and getting to see us not only win but make and win finals although falling short of the premiership. I can't imagine having to keep the faith as a kid that young watching this crap for 7 years going on 8. That's an entire lifetime of watching footy as a youth and I think if I were that age I would have lost all interest in footy by now or at least the Demons and just watch the big games on TV.

You are obviously of the same vintage as I, Doctor.

We got on board during the Northey years when we watched the footy and assumed we would just win. It was a great time to follow the Dees (comparatively). The team wasn't overly blessed with natural talent but they had a red hot go and played for each other.

Same with the Daniher era though there was always a feeling that we were always playing above ourselves and it was all illusory.

It must be bloody horrible for a young kid to support us.

The Northey and Daniher eras kept me going.

I was in my twenties when all that started happening, and had been going to the footy since i was a boy when we were pretty bad, so when we made the finals for the first time in twenty years , it was one of the happiest days of my life.

A quote from the captain on 10 News!! Nathan Jones stated that he didn't think that everyone was trying. No one can question his endeavour and in an era of spin and lets not say what we are l thinking, I am surprised but pleased to hear the captain state what many of us feel. So who wasn't trying yesterday? I thought Jeremy Howe's body language was disappointing and am not sure Fitzy was on the same wavelength as the rest and maybe still feeling the effects of the previous week.

I thought Jeremy Howe's body language was disappointing ...

Perhaps understandable given that he's having to be played out of position (KPF). I felt when he was moved up the ground, he looked something like the JH we know and (mostly) love.

A quote from the captain on 10 News!! Nathan Jones stated that he didn't think that everyone was trying. No one can question his endeavour and in an era of spin and lets not say what we are l thinking, I am surprised but pleased to hear the captain state what many of us feel. So who wasn't trying yesterday? I thought Jeremy Howe's body language was disappointing and am not sure Fitzy was on the same wavelength as the rest and maybe still feeling the effects of the previous week.

I hate bagging out players...but...I can't stand Shannon Byrnes. Although he kicked multiple goals, I hated his game. Jack Fitzpatrick, Jake Spencer and Cameron Pederson our 3 big men are not of the standard that we need to win.

4 players who really let us down Watts, Howe, Trengove, Grimes.

Is this agreed, we can not play with Fitzpatrick, Spencer, Byrnes and Pederson??

And guess what the result of all this is...instead of booking tickets to Melbourne to watch the Dees, we have decided to travel elsewhere. Horrible start to the year, tragic. Sad. I'm over it.