On 31/01/2014 at 04:27, rpfc said:

You are trying to make it simple to fit your point.

It doesn't fit. Move on.

My point was a simple one. You're trying to change it to make it fit with your point.

Give up. Please. Even just make your own point without trying to connect it to mine, cos THEY ARE DIFFERENT POINTS!

Hope he got getting the same advice as Mr King (Richmond) did on his negotiations with Richmond FC.

As i would only want people to play who actually wanted to play for the Club, drop him to the Reserves!

Can we get Roos to replace him in the back line?

  On 31/01/2014 at 03:54, mjt said:

Fancy not offering Moloney a contract then offering Rodan , Pederson and Gillies contracts , no wonder this board is always full of these type of threads, the damage Bailey , Neeld and Schwab created may never be repaired, I see Brocks in the leadership group at the Blues, FMD they better get it right in the next 3 years or we won't be part of the next broadcasting deal.

I really couldn't care less about that frontrunner but the way he was handled from a purely 'protection of assets' standpoint was stultifying.

Dropping him late in the season and keeping him out of the side and then all but stating that we wouldn't give him another contract was naive in the extreme in this new FA landscape where the AFL give compensation for important, or seemingly important, players leaving.

The damage is done, but it is a rich story that might be a disaster documentary on List Management one day...

List Management decisions made from the end of 2007 to 2012 and drafting from 2001 to 2011, and penalties from salary cap cheating in the late 90s are why we are in the mess we are in.

  On 31/01/2014 at 04:41, rpfc said:

I really couldn't care less about that frontrunner but the way he was handled from a purely 'protection of assets' standpoint was stultifying.

Dropping him late in the season and keeping him out of the side and then all but stating that we wouldn't give him another contract was naive in the extreme in this new FA landscape where the AFL give compensation for important, or seemingly important, players leaving.

The damage is done, but it is a rich story that might be a disaster documentary on List Management one day...

List Management decisions made from the end of 2007 to 2012 and drafting from 2001 to 2011, and penalties from salary cap cheating in the late 90s are why we are in the mess we are in.

I would add incompetent management / Board as well rpfc

But you are correct. We entered 2012 with a list that consisted of numerous VFL standard players and a bunch of kids.

The last two years showed their collective abilities.

Lets hope the list have improved this year and we can at least be competitive most weeks and eke out 5 - 6 wins

  On 31/01/2014 at 04:29, stuie said:

My point was a simple one. You're trying to change it to make it fit with your point.

Give up. Please. Even just make your own point without trying to connect it to mine, cos THEY ARE DIFFERENT POINTS!

No, Stuie, you tried to equate two people's refrains about staying at the club when one of them had no choice to stay.

You don't get to act like the demurring, bemused victim.

Just deal with the fact that most of us do not think you internetted properly.

It happens to the best of us.

  On 31/01/2014 at 04:50, rpfc said:

No, Stuie, you tried to equate two people's refrains about staying at the club when one of them had no choice to stay.

You don't get to act like the demurring, bemused victim.

Just deal with the fact that most of us do not think you internetted properly.

It happens to the best of us.

Ok, you're just not going to get it are you.

  On 31/01/2014 at 04:49, old dee said:

I would add incompetent management / Board as well rpfc

But you are correct. We entered 2012 with a list that consisted of numerous VFL standard players and a bunch of kids.

The last two years showed their collective abilities.

Lets hope the list have improved this year and we can at least be competitive most weeks and eke out 5 - 6 wins

I left that out because we are talking about specific drafting and list management decisions (and sanctions) not the management or executive that brought about those errors (and sanctions).

One begets the other of course.

  On 31/01/2014 at 04:54, rpfc said:

I left that out because we are talking about specific drafting and list management decisions (and sanctions) not the management or executive that brought about those errors (and sanctions).

One begets the other of course.

I understand I just could not help myself.

I tend to get a little unsettled when I am reminded of our level of mismanagement.

  On 31/01/2014 at 04:52, stuie said:

Ok, you're just not going to get it are you.

Correct. Move on. Just part of footy these days. Ask Hawthorn.

Who do we need, who can we get, what do we need to do to get him?

Can't we all learn to get along?

Agree with Chip on this one.
He is nearing 25 and has yet to play in one final. He has been subjected to enough false dawns so I could imagine why he might be skeptical as to why this one is any different.
He will be the same as JW but a little different. If we had gone out and gotten another untried assistant, the chances Jack would have stayed on would have been smaller. In Chip's case, we show genuine improve (I would say around the 8-10 win mark), he will stay. We get less than that, he is gawnski.

  On 31/01/2014 at 05:03, Dockett 32 said:

Correct. Move on. Just part of footy these days. Ask Hawthorn.

Who do we need, who can we get, what do we need to do to get him?

Absolutely Spot on Mate....I would rather a player left as a Restricted Free Agent than as a FA....The Club can then deal.

I think many contracts will be designed around the 8 year timeframe from now on.

Losing Free Agents is too costly.....Restricted FA's can help the club.

  On 31/01/2014 at 05:24, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Agree with Chip on this one.

He is nearing 25 and has yet to play in one final. He has been subjected to enough false dawns so I could imagine why he might be skeptical as to why this one is any different.

He will be the same as JW but a little different. If we had gone out and gotten another untried assistant, the chances Jack would have stayed on would have been smaller. In Chip's case, we show genuine improve (I would say around the 8-10 win mark), he will stay. We get less than that, he is gawnski.

Your 8-10 wins benchmark is an interesting point. I wonder what it will take for him to decide he's seen enough to stay. 8-10 wins IMHO is a big call. Very much the upper end of what I would expect this year. I wonder what will happen if the group is jelling as a team, they run a couple of the elite teams to close games, cut out the terrible losses but still only win say 5 games. Will that be enough? I know not according to you but what do others think it will take?

  On 31/01/2014 at 05:50, It said:

Your 8-10 wins benchmark is an interesting point. I wonder what it will take for him to decide he's seen enough to stay. 8-10 wins IMHO is a big call. Very much the upper end of what I would expect this year. I wonder what will happen if the group is jelling as a team, they run a couple of the elite teams to close games, cut out the terrible losses but still only win say 5 games. Will that be enough? I know not according to you but what do others think it will take?

That's all up to Chip. If Hawthorn are top 4 and offer him big money then he might leave even with 8 wins, although given the ages of Sewell, Mitchell and Hodge that might be foolish. Or if Gold Coast finish around 8th and offer the same then he might go as well. The realities are the alternatives are just as important as what we do. Franklin showed that. He would've had a huge decision between Hawthorn and GWS until Sydney offered an alternative that gave him everything he wanted.

Yep. We have to get rid of emotional ties and enjoy the players season by season.

It is what the players voted for.

In return i expect 100% commitment. Not the useless drivel we were served up in 2012-13.

I don't know what you clowns are worried about. Once Roos was appointed, 25 wins this year was all but assured.

  On 31/01/2014 at 05:50, It said:

Your 8-10 wins benchmark is an interesting point. I wonder what it will take for him to decide he's seen enough to stay. 8-10 wins IMHO is a big call. Very much the upper end of what I would expect this year. I wonder what will happen if the group is jelling as a team, they run a couple of the elite teams to close games, cut out the terrible losses but still only win say 5 games. Will that be enough? I know not according to you but what do others think it will take?

Yeah, me too. I would say 8-10 is optimistic. Doable if all things go right. However, a lot of the dominoes would have to fall our way.

I would add another caveat. If we come out of the year relatively united and the midfield doesn't just allow the opposition to walk the ball into their forward fifty, Chip is a chance to stay.

  On 31/01/2014 at 07:13, why you little said:

Yep. We have to get rid of emotional ties and enjoy the players season by season.

It is what the players voted for.

In return i expect 100% commitment. Not the useless drivel we were served up in 2012-13.

Have you ever played any type of sport chips getting bombarded week after week , straight out the guts over his head for a goal, think before you post could you imagine getting smashed every week like that, the clubs losing players because of previous ADMINISTRATIONS they hire and fire and we picked that idiot from Freo, the club will probably lose chip but Roos and PJ have a few seasons to work with Viney Hogan , Tyson , Salem , JT , Watts , Toumpas and a few others and by god they better get it right because if they don't the clubs screwed.

  On 31/01/2014 at 08:06, mjt said:

Have you ever played any type of sport chips getting bombarded week after week , straight out the guts over his head for a goal, think before you post could you imagine getting smashed every week like that, the clubs losing players because of previous ADMINISTRATIONS they hire and fire and we picked that [censored] from Freo, the club will probably lose chip but Roos and PJ have a few seasons to work with Viney Hogan , Tyson , Salem , JT , Watts , Toumpas and a few others and by god they better get it right because if they don't the clubs screwed.

Think before i post. I did.

The last 2 years were completely unacceptable. I understand that Chip was bombarded. We all saw it. But the entire list was paid, most if them very well so i have little sympathy really.

The club was trashed by many. Thankfully most were escorted out.

Whether Chip stays or goes at years end is neither here nor there to me.

With RFA he must be replaced with a suitable player IF he decides to walk.

The old Admin has gone. Why bring it up?

  On 31/01/2014 at 08:43, why you little said:

Think before i post. I did.

The last 2 years were completely unacceptable. I understand that Chip was bombarded. We all saw it. But the entire list was paid, most if them very well so i have little sympathy really.

The club was trashed by many. Thankfully most were escorted out.

Whether Chip stays or goes at years end is neither here nor there to me.

With RFA he must be replaced with a suitable player IF he decides to walk.

The old Admin has gone. Why bring it up?

Have you ever played sport and been defeated week after week ? The players walking is due to past indescretions let's see if your guru PJ can turn it around, you would have to be an idiot to have faith in anything this clubs trying to achieve unt you see results, give me wins then I will heap praise , your hoping PJ can turn it around and he hasn't even committed to the club beyond this year , sounds similar to chip.

wyl, why does it always come back to "they get paid well"? So what? Whatever he gets paid now is going to have to last him into his years after football. It's a throwaway line.

He's still human and footy is his life. Why does he not deserve a degree of sympathy for the dross of the shambolic last few years? The bulk of his career has been played in a team that has been smashed from pillar to post. And he's actually someone who could walk into any club. You can see each week how much it has rocked him.

And now, after years of service with weekly beltings, he wants to be certain the club is on an upward curve before committing.

And some are calling for him to be dropped to reserves? Seriously?

A few words on this:

- He's undoubtedly a beast and an important player to us but is he the amazing talent that makes him irreplaceable? Don't think so.

- When it all boils down to it are athlete type footballers like James easier to come by? Probably.

- Is this just contract posturing? I still hope so, but the writing has been on the wall for a while now, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has made the decision to vacate a long time ago and would need some serious talking out of it, if that is at all possible.

- If he goes, it won't take long for a new star Demon full back to emerge.

  On 30/01/2014 at 16:38, furious d said:

Can anyone tell me how this restricted free agency thing works? If we match an offer from another club is Chip locked in to the terms of that contract with us? By that I mean the length of the contract. So for example if the Suns were to offer 6 or 8 years for X dollars and we match it, is Chip locked in to being a Dee for that period? If so this could work out in our favour and it would be smart management to make sure our gun players fall out of contract in their restricted years rather than unrestricted years.

  On 30/01/2014 at 22:28, rpfc said:

Frawley stays on our terms.

OR

Frawley stays on someone else's terms.

OR

Frawley leaves and we get approx. Nat Draft Pick 5.

OR

Frawley leaves through the Draft and we get nothing.

The first and third options are far more likely than the second and fourth options.

Missed one option. If he is adamant that he wants to go we can match the offer and then trade him. This would work if the club he wants to go to has a really high pick (say top 5) to trade for him and we think it will be better than the compo the AFL would offer.

My opinion on this is that we don't ever let a RFA go without a fight. It sends a bad message both to our players and the AFL community to roll over and let people take our players at will. We should be forcing any player who wants out to either be traded for real value or walk into the draft and take their chances. I am well aware of the fact that this is not the best policy solely from a list management perspective, but as it stands the bigger clubs see us as easy pickings and are circling our few really talented players like sharks. We need to make it abundantly clear to the entire competition that if you want one of our stars you'll need to pay top price.

If 8-10 wins is his benchmark than I think we may as well start planning Frawley's farewell game against north in rd 23.

2 wins to 9 wins is too much of a leap.