Intraclub Practice Match - Thursday 20th February, 2014

[old dee 23,781]

OD was Dawes actually injured or even tight in the calf or is it a preventative thing. I suppose time will tell but surely the Journos picked up on him icing his calf and asked the question?

I don't know tm

I did not notice him as injured when I left at Half time Just reacting to the news that he is injured.

I thought he played well up to half time. Kicked a couple of beautiful goals from tight angles.

Straight through from well out.

God I hope he can stay on the park

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Fitzy is huge. He has a big arse which defenders will struggle to get past once on a lead.

What I like about this picture is how he is reaching forward to take the mark. If he does this as a leading forward, combined with his speed and height, no back men in the league would have any chance of legitimately spoiling him when the delivery is half decent.

I'm a fan of Dawes but his tendency to wait for the ball to hit him in the chest is a weakness.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Not a word of a lie, this is the most awesome comment in this thread. What a statement it would make to the league at large if we took the next mega-hyped-saviour-superstar, the guy everyone has been asking "is this the next Wayne Carey?", and said "he's not quite ready for senior footy yet, but if he continues to work hard he will debut when he is ready". How different an introduction that would be for him compared to what Watts, Trenners, Toumpas, et al, have had to endure.

Of course he's ready for senior footy, just not next week. He's underdone. But he's more than ready.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I reckon that he is tracking very nicely. Stunned that there were some calling to trade him.

I think that was only about list balance and trying to work out a way to keep draft picks whilst bring in experienced talent. But if by some miracle Clark, Dawes and Hogan all played the entire year and Fitzy didn't get a look in he'd probably be asking for a trade himself so it's not crazy. Personally I don't think you trade your depth in the one area of the ground you actually have some in. That's crazy.

My only concern about Fitzy is now that he's brought his unique style of game to the AFL is he going to iron out the weaknesses. This goal kicking action with a ball drop from about 1m high is unacceptable. He looks thicker framed this year to help his body but can he get to that really good body shape with the right combination of speed, strength and endurance especially given his health issues. And will he learn enough ruck work to be a competent back up. Last year when he went in to the ruck it was like oh well we may as well concede the hit outs lets hope he can use his speed around the ground.

[nutbean 8,838]

- Nicholson if he plays AFL this year we will have a large number of serious injuries. His disposal is not AFL, I doubt it is good enough for VFL.

When you play run and spread football (which we haven't seen for a number of years), turn the ball over and you are dead.

This will sort out the likes of Nicholson. He either improves or he is gone. I compare him with McKenzie. I was critical of Neeld telling McKenzie he needed to kick more. His use by hand is proficient enough. Why force him to kick more when it is the weakest part of his game. It is interesting to watch Hawthorn at the clearances. When the ball is bounced they seem to get one player within 5 metres of the drop who is clear. That allows the Mitchells and the Sewells who are in and under to give it someone who can then open up the play. The last two years we have had McKenzie at the bottom of the pack with no one clear to give to when he did come up with it.

The thing I loved about Bernie Vince's game on Friday was not the hard balls he got but the easy ones. We haven't had a player giving other players an easy out for two to three years ! Vince knows where to run. The likes of McKenzie will appreciate having a player close by and clear to dish off to.

Unless Nicholson can get a semblance of disposal he wont make it.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Just a point on Hogan. Of course he is underdone. He jarred his knee and has had limited training for at least a month. However, round 1 is still a month away. He will get plenty of match fitness in that time and barring any further injuries will be 100% by round 1. Same goes for Viney.

I'm getting a feeling our young guns may be 'held back' from the start of the season, with us going in with the more mature, & experienced guys early.

We want to be up to speed by Rnd 5 with gameplan, & with our contested work & defensive work. And as the young fellas tend to run out of Gas by the late stages of a season, as they start their senior careers, I think it could be a good idea to hold them back with their peak fitness by 3 weeks or so.

this could help the makeup of the side to compete, contest, & tie down our gamestyle before our younger forwards & players up take a position.

go in Big & with hard bodies to make a statement.... then add some more talent coming into the meat of the season.

[old dee 23,781]

I may have overstated on NikNat tearing it up. Let me put it this way - Niknats first season had lots of nice moments for a highlight reel - a preview of things to come. Fitzy's first seasons had ,lets say, some comic relief ? That is no disrespect to Fitzy because I somewhat expect it but four years on and he is maturing nicely.

Those tall blokes in the main are big and gawky and take time to grow into those bodies.

My point is that at the end of the four or five years the Fitzy type of player may still be a "spud" and then you may need to cut them but I don't call it on blokes that size until they are around 23.

I saw Fitzy in a game at Williamstown I think in his first year.

It was the first time I had seen him live at the ground.

That day Casey got absolutely slaughtered I think they lost by 15+ goals.

He was in my opinion close to Casey's best that day.

Marked well and rucked well in a side getting killed.

He has had a lot of problems with illness and I think he really came on last year.

He played some good games at AFL level last year and Has impressed me at training this year.

I will be very surprised if he is not better under Roos.

To quote a famous line

"I like the Boy"

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

When you play run and spread football (which we haven't seen for a number of years), turn the ball over and you are dead.

This will sort out the likes of Nicholson. He either improves or he is gone. I compare him with McKenzie. I was critical of Neeld telling McKenzie he needed to kick more. His use by hand is proficient enough. Why force him to kick more when it is the weakest part of his game. It is interesting to watch Hawthorn at the clearances. When the ball is bounced they seem to get one player within 5 metres of the drop who is clear. That allows the Mitchells and the Sewells who are in and under to give it someone who can then open up the play. The last two years we have had McKenzie at the bottom of the pack with no one clear to give to when he did come up with it.

The thing I loved about Bernie Vince's game on Friday was not the hard balls he got but the easy ones. We haven't had a player giving other players an easy out for two to three years ! Vince knows where to run. The likes of McKenzie will appreciate having a player close by and clear to dish off to.

Unless Nicholson can get a semblance of disposal he wont make it.

The way I see it is that bad kicks still have to kick especially half backs or midfielders. McKenzie is going to get the ball in space or running in to space and hit targets by foot. He can't just wait and slow down the play and handball sideways or backwards. That doesn't mean he should be trying to kick all the time of course he should try and handball, but McKenzie is more than enough of a kick that he can use his boot when needed. He should learn a lot from Cross who usually plays it safe but kicks when required. Plus hey we wont win the flag this year and we will still have games where we are down by a significant margin. No better time for the likes of McKenzie, Spencer and Tommy McDonald to practice kicking as much as they can.

Nicholson is a different to me because he's a small defender and that means kicking is a huge part of his game. It's defensive work then kicking that's about it. It's why I don't see a future for him in that role and think he may as well compete with the half forwards.

[jayceebee31 759]

...but you do think 200cm is too small for a ruck man now? or was it someone else that posted this the other day.

King may well end up a KPP.

Agree- his mobility is exceptional .However his fitness- stamina is a real issue.Ran last by at least 100metres in the 3k time trial a few weeks ago.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I'm getting a feeling our young guns may be 'held back' from the start of the season, with us going in with the more mature, & experienced guys early.

We want to be up to speed by Rnd 5 with gameplan, & with our contested work & defensive work. And as the young fellas tend to run out of Gas by the late stages of a season, as they start their senior careers, I think it could be a good idea to hold them back with their peak fitness by 3 weeks or so.

this could help the makeup of the side to compete, contest, & tie down our gamestyle before our younger forwards & players up take a position.

go in Big & with hard bodies to make a statement.... then add some more talent coming into the meat of the season.

I think that will see Salem miss. And JKH will still have to show in the next 2 games that his skill and talent makes him indisputably better than the competition for his spot.

But Hogan is big, hard, plays angry. I don't want to waste him in the 2's lets just get him in.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

Agree- his mobility is exceptional .However his fitness- stamina is a real issue.Ran last by at least 100metres in the 3k time trial a few weeks ago.

Yep but rookie list tall running last in the your time trial is probably how it's meant to work! And I don't think these days that ruck, forward or back are any less taxing. Maybe short spurts in the middle or forward could save him running the most but really he's VFL fitness at best and that's where he'll be just a matter of what position

[Courtney_Fish 183]

It is something that is forgotten frequently on here.

All in good humour.

[old dee 23,781]

I think that will see Salem miss. And JKH will still have to show in the next 2 games that his skill and talent makes him indisputably better than the competition for his spot.

But Hogan is big, hard, plays angry. I don't want to waste him in the 2's lets just get him in.

Neither do I t m

However I want him playing like a champion in 2016 and if that means he plays only a few games this year so be it.

We have slaughtered too many kids over the years playing them too early and too often.

[old dee 23,781]

The way I see it is that bad kicks still have to kick especially half backs or midfielders. McKenzie is going to get the ball in space or running in to space and hit targets by foot. He can't just wait and slow down the play and handball sideways or backwards. That doesn't mean he should be trying to kick all the time of course he should try and handball, but McKenzie is more than enough of a kick that he can use his boot when needed. He should learn a lot from Cross who usually plays it safe but kicks when required. Plus hey we wont win the flag this year and we will still have games where we are down by a significant margin. No better time for the likes of McKenzie, Spencer and Tommy McDonald to practice kicking as much as they can.

Nicholson is a different to me because he's a small defender and that means kicking is a huge part of his game. It's defensive work then kicking that's about it. It's why I don't see a future for him in that role and think he may as well compete with the half forwards.

I don't see a future full stop. His disposal is just not VFL standard IMO

[dee-luded 2,959]

I may have overstated on NikNat tearing it up. Let me put it this way - Niknats first season had lots of nice moments for a highlight reel - a preview of things to come. Fitzy's first seasons had ,lets say, some comic relief ? That is no disrespect to Fitzy because I somewhat expect it but four years on and he is maturing nicely.

Those tall blokes in the main are big and gawky and take time to grow into those bodies.

My point is that at the end of the four or five years the Fitzy type of player may still be a "spud" and then you may need to cut them but I don't call it on blokes that size until they are around 23.

I'm with you NB; Fitz's type IMO, will take longer than a 'NikNat' to enter the AFL arena, as Fitzy's more sort of top heavy, & awkward. where NikNat always looked to have more of a power foundation, strongly balanced over his legs.

How far NN will progress will be interesting, & now his apprenticeship is over & time to deliver.

Fitzy imo is more creative & spontaneous as a footy player, & this creates mental speed, & opportunities forward, but also eventually thru the mid field as he matures.

I expected Gawn would grow into our key 1st ruck going back 2 years, but now it looks like he is more a marking tall at this point, with Spencer as the strong bodied ruck, who can bang bodies; as I'd hoped he would become.

Spence has the desire to use aggression & this I liked about him from the start.

Now we are heading finally, into a contested ball gamestyle, Spencer I think/hope, will grow thru this opportunity. the ability to kick like a Daicos is not necessary for a bash-crash bigman, as long as he can use it well enough to not turn it over all the time. experience, & a smart thinking bigman will learn to not turn it over.

I'm excited about the Big kev Snake. go bash em Spence, crash that ball forward.

[What 18,810]

Fitzy will kick 30+ goals this season

Some people still dont realize how good this kid is

His speed for a 200cm player is insane

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think that will see Salem miss. And JKH will still have to show in the next 2 games that his skill and talent makes him indisputably better than the competition for his spot.

But Hogan is big, hard, plays angry. I don't want to waste him in the 2's lets just get him in.

I'd wait with Hogan; play him now in the praccy games. Then start him at Casey for the first 3 weeks or so, whilst we let the older guys set a trend of hardness & contested footy, setting a standard of body work.

...... if we are not moving the ball forward well, its not ideal to do a watts to hogan, in a forward setup thats not getting great ball delivery.

I wouldn't play him in the first couple of games, until we're settled into our structures in the backhalf, & thru the midfield.... when those setups are being adopted more intuitively, than its time to blood the kid. & time for the team to ROLL.

Edited February 20, 2014 by dee-luded

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

Question for those who have seen the practice matches and training in general.

If we had a full selection of talls would Fitz or Dawes be first selected?

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

I'm with you NB; Fitz's type IMO, will take longer than a 'NikNat' to enter the AFL arena, as Fitzy's more sort of top heavy, & awkward. where NikNat always looked to have more of a power foundation, strongly balanced over his legs.

How far NN will progress will be interesting, & now his apprenticeship is over & time to deliver.

Fitzy imo is more creative & spontaneous as a footy player, & this creates mental speed, & opportunities forward, but also eventually thru the mid field as he matures.

I expected Gawn would grow into our key 1st ruck going back 2 years, but now it looks like he is more a marking tall at this point, with Spencer as the strong bodied ruck, who can bang bodies; as I'd hoped he would become.

Spence has the desire to use aggression & this I liked about him from the start.

Now we are heading finally, into a contested ball gamestyle, Spencer I think/hope, will grow thru this opportunity. the ability to kick like a Daicos is not necessary for a bash-crash bigman, as long as he can use it well enough to not turn it over all the time. experience, & a smart thinking bigman will learn to not turn it over.

I'm excited about the Big kev Snake. go bash em Spence, crash that ball forward.

I was impressed with our big blokes today. How about this scenario if Clark is not fit. Gawn plays mostly as a forward. Dawes plays CHF because he is prepared to run. Spencer does most of the ruck. Hogan plays forward up to the wing. Fitzy similar. One always off the ground.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I'd wait with Hogan; play him now in the praccy games. Then start him at Casey for the first 3 weeks or so, whilst we let the older guys set a trend of hardness & contested footy, setting a standard of body work.

...... if we are not moving the ball forward well, its not ideal to do a watts to hogan, in a forward setup thats not getting great ball delivery.

I wouldn't play him in the first couple of games, until we're settled into our structures in the backhalf, & thru the midfield.... when those setups are being adopted more intuitively, than its time to blood the kid. & time for the team to ROLL.

But Hogan does set a trend with hardness and contested footy. That's 2 of his best attributes. I'm all for treating him like a young inexperienced player but he's got the body to play now and I don't see the team potentially struggling as a reason to hold him back.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was impressed with our big blokes today. How about this scenario if Clark is not fit. Gawn plays mostly as a forward. Dawes plays CHF because he is prepared to run. Spencer does most of the ruck. Hogan plays forward up to the wing. Fitzy similar. One always off the ground.

can you whisper this to the match committee?

i think you may be onto something BBO Dawes & Hogan have to play leadup from half-forward & doubling back. Gawn play high but sneaking back when opportunities happen

however I'd keep Fitzy roaming the forwardline between the square & deep, unless he's rucking.

when Mitch Clark's ready, it will be interesting.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

BTW. Forgot to mention in my training report. Met one of our ( new?) board members today - Jeremy Nicholls. Helluva nice fellow. We had a bit of a general chat and what impressed was how he emphasised the cohesive nature of the club. Everyone knows their role and are working hard at it. I know that's the party line in any organisation but this bloke was enthusiastic and keen to talk. Liked him.

[dee-luded 2,959]

But Hogan does set a trend with hardness and contested footy. That's 2 of his best attributes. I'm all for treating him like a young inexperienced player but he's got the body to play now and I don't see the team potentially struggling as a reason to hold him back.

I know, but he's not experienced playing at this level, so we don't want to hurt his 'footy confidence', at this point IMO. If the supply is 'so-so', as the team adjusts to SO many new players.

Once the backhalf is settled & pumping the ball out, & the Mids are spreading to create; then it'll be time I think.

I think Viney will struggle to get a game, off the Bench maybe... toump, salem, evans, blease, etc.

Edited February 20, 2014 by dee-luded

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I was impressed with our big blokes today. How about this scenario if Clark is not fit. Gawn plays mostly as a forward. Dawes plays CHF because he is prepared to run. Spencer does most of the ruck. Hogan plays forward up to the wing. Fitzy similar. One always off the ground.

Spencer ruck is fine, He's got a bit edge in fitness and match play practice heading in to round 1. 2 decent games against Geelong and Hawthorn and the spot is his. Clark will almost certainly miss. Dawes as the lead up CHF yep. Hogan as a roaming forward wherever he needs to be. But no point playing Fitzy AND Gawn. It will be talls tripping over each other and no defensive pressure.

If Dawes and Hogan make it to round 1 fit and showing enough form then I think we chose between Gawn and Fitzy for that remaining spot. I think they know it as well and were both keen to put their best foot forward today. I expect in Alice they'll both play majority forward and spell Spencer at various times and have a nice competition. Rhys Stanley is likely to be the saints second ruckman. Which means if we play Gawn we get an edge in ruck ability but also means we can play Fitzy and not be concerned that he'd get monstered in their by a team with 2 strong rucks.

[bing181 9,193]

Dawes is fine.

Interview available on MFC for those who'd rather get it from the horses's mouth.