don't believe everything you read and who knows what the drill was???

Hogan will be like Darling + more in year one, he will have an impact.

did you actually read the post? or just skim, because it said Dunn beat him once, and the next contest hogan nearly broke him in half.

Lynden is one of the better 1v1 defenders in the comp, rarely beaten!! Hogan learnt from the first one, and made sure it wasnt going to happen again!!

Disappointingly personal.

Water off a duck's back, BB.

RPFC is a poor man's Ben Hur.

Edit - I hope to see the last line as RP's signature for the next season at least!

I like both. They make me feel good.

Ben has a sense of humour and is funny. He also writes in a very engaging way and so when he is personal it's laced with a smile. Not many understand this.

Describing RPFC without being disappointingly personal is really not possible. But he's a keen student of the game and loves the club.

I think we all need to stop.

I don't know whether it is Godwin's Law - but comparing me to BH hurts.

Especially the poor man part.

You both are good to argue/post with - I only have issues with attempts to tie what I post to the problems of the club and personal asides in posts - I do try to refrain from them.

I don't think it is necessary to denigrate a poster personally, usually their argument provides enough rope - that is what I thought I was doing with you Billy. If I crossed the line (obviously I crossed that line the Blow post) then I apologise.

Our midfield is terrible, just terrible. In 2014 we will have Cross and Vince as known quantities to improve our fortunes, but that is somewhat offset by the loss of Sylvia. Tyson, Trengove, Watts, and Toumpas may improve and may make us better, but it is far from a guarantee that they will - or that their improvement will be significant enough to put us on a par with lower-middling sides.

What did last year show us about forward depth?

That if you can't compete in the midfield it doesn't matter that you have forward depth.

As I said above, our recruits in the last off-season help but it is far from the end of it.

I expect us to target midfielders again next year and I am willing to part with luxury items to get a premium midfielder.

No midfield loss with Silvia, he can't play the position. Major gain in Vince and Cross add Tyson with a rejuvenated Trengove, Watts and Howe and we are on our way.

No midfield loss with Silvia, he can't play the position. Major gain in Vince and Cross add Tyson with a rejuvenated Trengove, Watts and Howe and we are on our way.

Add michie who from all reports out of freo will be a player, toumpass growing into a mans body and ready to go, and don't forget the effect this depth is gonna have on jones who is no longer required to individually carry our midfield

One thing I have noticed during early training sessions is that Roos often has pulled up Fitz for his poor leading patterns.

He seems to be unsure of where to lead to and when to go.

My belief is that he will not necessarily be best 22 in 2014 but that Roos will continue to work with him with a view to 2015.

He will be a contributor in 2014 but not every week.

Roos surely sees his potential and will be looking at him to be a major player but not next season.

Add michie who from all reports out of freo will be a player, toumpass growing into a mans body and ready to go, and don't forget the effect this depth is gonna have on jones who is no longer required to individually carry our midfield

Agree.

Clark,Dawes and Daylight. Why cause I want to see where my money went !

4th Years in the system:

Fitz (2013) averages: 10 disp, 4.2 marks, 1.4 goals.

Dawes (2010) averages: 12 disp, 5.6 marks, 1.5 goals.

I will let the readers decide who had the more impressive year, how much it matters, and whether the fact Dawes played in a flag that year is a plus or a minus in this discussion.

With standardisation that compares very favourably for Fitz, given he has come from nowhere and considering the amount and quality of supply.

I would take Fitzy at the same age over Dawes.

I accept that he is one I rate higher than most would.

One thing I have noticed during early training sessions is that Roos often has pulled up Fitz for his poor leading patterns.

He seems to be unsure of where to lead to and when to go.

My belief is that he will not necessarily be best 22 in 2014 but that Roos will continue to work with him with a view to 2015.

He will be a contributor in 2014 but not every week.

Roos surely sees his potential and will be looking at him to be a major player but not next season.

Sometimes a coach will appear to "pick on" a player when the coach thinks the player has a lot of potential.

One other thing about Fitzpatrick, hasn't he had trouble with Chronic Fatigue? It takes a while to learn how to live with that.

Sometimes a coach will appear to "pick on" a player when the coach thinks the player has a lot of potential.

One other thing about Fitzpatrick, hasn't he had trouble with Chronic Fatigue? It takes a while to learn how to live with that.

He's had it since he was 5 I think he's learnt to deal with it .

The expectations around Hogan are similar to those that existed around Watts. That's not for me.

My focus is on the trashed talent of the past two years. If that talent flourishes we will be a significantly better team at no cost. Trengove, Watts and Strauss for me.

I agree. Hopefully from now on first year players wont be relevant to the teams fortunes. Hogan, Salem etc are beginning their apprenticeship. Im much more interested in the fortunes of Watts, Trengove, Fitzpatrick, Strauss, Toumpas, Clisby, Dawes, Clark etc than the "class of 2013". They will get their time but first I want to see what is already on offer.

I agree. Hopefully from now on first year players wont be relevant to the teams fortunes. Hogan, Salem etc are beginning their apprenticeship. Im much more interested in the fortunes of Watts, Trengove, Fitzpatrick, Strauss, Toumpas, Clisby, Dawes, Clark etc than the "class of 2013". They will get their time but first I want to see what is already on offer.

How in heaven's name did Trengove, Watts and Strauss become "trashed talent" in the past two years?

Were they champions under Bailey who suddenly went into steep decline under Neeld and Craig?

Trengove's problems for the last two years have IMO been more physical than anything else. In 2012 he could barely run and his kicking was godawful. He sustained a preseason injury this year and who knows what effect the claims about the cream that was allegedly prescribed had on him?

Watts continued to be Watts for most of fhe time under Neeld but IIIRC he played some good footy when played as a spare player mopping up in defence - a move that many praised Neeld for. If he was "trashed" it was more by the experts in the bleachers who delight in starting threads knocking him or comparing him with Naitanui who plays in a much better side and is second fiddle to one of the best ruckmen going around.

Strauss played under Bailey for almost three years and was given 10 AFL games. The last of them was 186. Did he cover himself in glory so much in that time that he could possibly have gone so far backwards as to have his career "trashed" by his next coach?

I don't think so.

After Bailey was sacked, Strauss was picked to play in the following game against Carlton at the MCG. We all know he broke his leg badly in that game. So badly that he didn't make his comeback until round 16 of the following season - his first under Neeld. He went on to play the next seven games in a row and he played a couple of very good games in that time. He was slow coming up at the start of this year but was selected in round 6 v Carlton and played four games until Neeld was sacked for a total of 10 games under that coach . He then had two more under Neil Craig. I would suggest that it's a bit of a stretch to suggest in view of Strauss' horrific injury to suggest this player was. "trashed" by Neeld.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that Neeld's coaching was good for this trio but rather, none of them had much of a grounding from their previous coach, that both bear responsibility for their lack of development and that someone's having a lend of us by suggesting that Neeld trashed their careers. My expectations for this trio under Roos are as high as for anyone else in the team after a decade of sub par coaching at the club but they don't figure in my three pivotal players for 2014.

Sometimes a coach will appear to "pick on" a player when the coach thinks the player has a lot of potential.

One other thing about Fitzpatrick, hasn't he had trouble with Chronic Fatigue? It takes a while to learn how to live with that.

As was already said, he has probably come to terms with that... however, Fitzpatrick was also diagnosed with type one diabetes mid last year, so I imagine that would have had a not insignificant impact on him and his improvement this year may well have been related to his adapting to that change.

The other possibility is that Fitzpatrick could be tried in a different position on the ground altogether. Key defence perhaps? Nothing wrong with having versatile players or experimenting with someone of his attributes - height and pace - to see if he can add something to the team effort in places other than the obvious.

While I agree with your argument WJ, remember when we the MFC experiment it's called tanking!

However I look forward to seeing how Roos handles Fitzy next season as I have little faith in Dawes ever coming really fit again.

Fitzy is fast and agile and with his diabetes under control I reckon he has a lot to offer.

Other players I am interested in are Grimes (if he can remain injury free) playing out of the back line, and Howe who during the latter part of the year had little impact and looked like a fish out of water! What will Roos do with him?

With standardisation that compares very favourably for Fitz, given he has come from nowhere and considering the amount and quality of supply.

I would take Fitzy at the same age over Dawes.

I accept that he is one I rate higher than most would.

no way...no how...

I am not denigrating Fitzy but a fit Dawes in 2010 had the football smarts that Fitzy doesn't possess yet.

Talk to Magpie supporters about him and they will say he played a pivotal role in that premiership year - helped them keep structure.

My knock on Dawes is that he is not a great contested mark. The biggest plus for me on him is the amount of contests he DOESN'T get beaten in. He is a contesting machine that at worst halves most of the contests he is in. He runs to good spots and provides good options. He was doing this in 2010 and can do the same for us if fit ( the big "if")

Fitzy doesn't have this as yet - he is still very raw - he well may havein the future but IMO Dawes matured earlier than Fitzy has.