Nah, O'Loughlin was a star. Could also make a case for Hall.

Nah, O'Loughlin was a star. Could also make a case for Hall.

Beat me too it 'P-man'...agree.

Just to emphasise again, the two players in question aren't solid mids. They are defenders that GWS consider to be excess. Neither are ball winners.Even if there isn't a massive difference between 2 and 9, you'd want your spare change to address what has become an emergency need in the side, surely.

They come from a side that were trounced every week. Obviously individual player numbers aren't going to be through the roof.

Roos is renowned for his ability to develop players. It doesn't bother me that both have been groomed as defenders. They are both versatile and have played through the midfield before.

I'm sure there are other offers out there that we may well go for but this trade is really not nearly as bad as some are making out.

The thing is we need impact NOW. A couple of handy players who are already blooded will/might just do that. A wet behind the ears kid will take a cpl of seasons to arrive at this point. We can buy today and put a couple away on tick in the next few drafts.

We need to be playing fair dinkum footy next year.... or we'll go down the gurgler of irrelevant mediocrities !!

Nah, O'Loughlin was a star. Could also make a case for Hall.

Geez, hate to overlook a dual Brownlow medalist. Goodesy any one?

Nah, O'Loughlin was a star. Could also make a case for Hall.

We'll agree to disagree then, P.

Looking at this mooted trade, I see 3 sweeteners.

It's a bowl of sugar with no meat & potatoes.

I get a sense that the club (and it's supporters) are a little gun shy about pick 2. It's almost as if it's scared to make a mistake with keeping pick 2... so lets trade it out, and get some more balance in the players that come into the midfield rather than a single star.

Not sure if scared is the right word, it's just what fit when I was thinking about this.

Pick 9 holds some very interesting players, Crouch, Bontempelli, Freeman, Kolodjashnij... we need these sorts of players more than a player such as Aish (At this point in our clubs development process)

They come from a side that were trounced every week. Obviously individual player numbers aren't going to be through the roof.

Roos is renowned for his ability to develop players. It doesn't bother me that both have been groomed as defenders. They are both versatile and have played through the midfield before.

I'm sure there are other offers out there that we may well go for but this trade is really not nearly as bad as some are making out.

Granted, you generally don't get a Rising Star nod if you can't play. But even at junior level when Bugg was played in the midfield he didn't see a lot of it. I have nightmares of match stat sheets that list Jones and then 13 opposition players. We need guys who can find the damn football. Now.

Your judgement is valued Steve, but I would hope we can do a bit better. I want genuine midfielders.

Geez, hate to overlook a dual Brownlow medalist. Goodesy any one?

Goodes was the one already nominated.

Pick 9 holds some very interesting players, Crouch, Bontempelli, Freeman, Kolodjashnij... we need these sorts of players more than a player such as Aish (At this point in our clubs development process)

I'd agree to an extent. I just hope we're not repeating the mistakes of the '03 draft all over again.

Pick 2 will let us have first dibs at the best midfielder in the country through the draft, not to mention trades - a golden opportunity.

Got to think long-term here. I'd rather a star such as Aish or Shiel than one good player (Buggs) who we would have to play in a different position, one unproven (Buntine) and pick 9 which considering the depth of this draft isn't the best (I'd be going for Freeman but you've got to hope someone else doesn't him up inbetween).

Vince (and hopefully Cross) will provide a short-term immediate impact; not to mention Toumpas, Viney and Evans improving next year.

The thing is we need impact NOW. A couple of handy players who are already blooded will/might just do that. A wet behind the ears kid will take a cpl of seasons to arrive at this point. We can buy today and put a couple away on tick in the next few drafts.

We need to be playing fair dinkum footy next year.... or we'll go down the gurgler of irrelevant mediocrities !!

I agree in part with what you are saying but these are not the guys. They couldn't provide that impact with GWS and are in effect wet behind the ears as they are not 50+ game players yet...and a long way off it.

FMD.

*sigh*

Ok, it's the fact we have to delist or trade another 2 players to make room for Buntine & Bugg, since we seem to have more trade targets than vacant spots on the list.

And ideally you'd trade for economy of talent, i.e. the net talent you receive crammed into as few spots on the list as possible.

I know it's an abstract idea, because it doesn't really work like that, but surely you can understand this concept?

what are you talking about maxy?

I trust that if the PRoos brains trust think these guys are what they want, I feel trust in that they would have seen the GWS boys play over many occasions watching them in greater Sydney?

I trust them.

but you seem to think you know better than them,, Roos & stone etc? I wish you would tell us why we should trust you more than these guys with pretty good track records I would have thought.

your not Yze Magic R U ?

# also, If your worried about the list numbers some no doubt will be delisted & I think some will get traded out.

.

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by dee-luded

Goodes was the one already nominated.

Whoops. Half ar$ed doesn't quite sum it up.

Nah, O'Loughlin was a star. Could also make a case for Hall.

Barry Hall was just about the best player in the whole league in 2005. Clearly a star. No debate.

This is a great discussion. There is some merit in both arguments. The key seems to be the unknown quantities of Bugg and Buntine. Worth noting that those are the players GWS have suggested. We may have asked for one or two different players as well as pick 9.

Two very different approaches to trade, well be interesting to see which way we go and what ends up happening.

Granted, you generally don't get a Rising Star nod if you can't play. But even at junior level when Bugg was played in the midfield he didn't see a lot of it. I have nightmares of match stat sheets that list Jones and then 13 opposition players. We need guys who can find the damn football. Now.Your judgement is valued Steve, but I would hope we can do a bit better. I want genuine midfielders.

It all gets a bit hazy with the talk of ball winning ability. The fact that our players are low on numbers is not solely because they can't 'win their own ball.' I don't want to go there though. But let's just be aware of the fact that if we injected any big name mid into our side right now, their performance/numbers/ball winning capabilities would be no where near what they would have previously been.

Having said that, I do agree that there could be better offers for our pick 2. I'm simply arguing that the reported offer of Buntine, Bugg and pick number 9 (which from what I understand in this draft will be a very handy player), is a pretty good fall back deal.

If we do land Vince and Cross, (which I expect we will), that gives us two quality experienced 'ball winners' plus Nathan Jones who is turning into a genuinely quality AFL midfielder. Natural improvement from Viney and a rejuvenated and fit Trengove gives decent support.

Then we have the following to develop:

Michie

Watts (if he plays midfield)

Toumpas

Pick 9

Howe

Taggert

Bugg

Buntine

Tapscott

Barry

Matt Jones

and Grimes if he's not moved back

That's a pretty good 'worst case' trade if you ask me, and we'll also have the opportunity to land a big fish next year as a FA.

But I, like you would still prefer to land a big namer for pick 2.

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by stevethemanjordan

Barry Hall was just about the best player in the whole league in 2005. Clearly a star. No debate.

Was Shane Woewodin a star? One top season does not a star player make. Barry Hall had a solid midfield in front of him. As it turned out, a premiership winning one. Overrated. Good player, but not a star.

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by AdamFarr

Was Shane Woewodin a star? One top season does not a star player make. Barry Hall had a solid midfield in front of him. As it turned out, a premiership winning one. Overrated. Good player, but not a star.

He was All-Australian CHF 3-years running (2004, 2005, 2006) then again in 2010 just for good measure. "One top season" you say?

If that's just a good player and "not a star" then I honestly don't know what your criteria for a "star" could possibly be.

Of course having a good midfield helps (were the Swans mids really that good?) but it's ludicrous to attribute Hall's success as a player to that.

Clearly a star.

He was All-Australian CHF 3-years running (2004, 2005, 2006) then again in 2010 just for good measure. "One top season" you say?

If that's just a good player and "not a star" then I honestly don't know what your criteria for a "star" could possibly be.

Of course having a good midfield helps (were the Swans mids really that good?) but it's ludicrous to attribute Hall's success as a player to that.

Clearly a star.

Right. Well, I don't think Woewodin was anywhere near being a star. He had one top season, IMO. He may have had good seasons around that, but I guess I'm not as happy to anoint players "stars". I loved Neita, but even his "star" status is tenuous, and he was twice the player Woewodin was.

I am honestly all for this trade. Some of the key points I think need to be said or re-said are;

Buntine was a midfielder as a junior. He couldn't get a game in GWS's midfield so he was played a defender, all be it a running one.

Bugg, again is a bit like Zack Jones, started off a back flank and will eventually end up as a midfielder, at Melbourne. I used Zack Jones as an example as we are calling for him to be grabbed around the pick 21 mark, which is fair enough.

Thirdly, I recall Demonlanders calling for us to take Freeman at pick 2, which again is a good call... he has what we lack; speed,contested ability etc.. he isnt an accumulator, but damaging with what he gets.

My point is, if we wanted to take Freeman at 2, why not take him at 9 and grab Bugg and Buntine aswell?

Realistically, we are getting 3 for 1.. replacing guys like, couch, nicholson, bail making them further depth players rather than borderline 22 is how we are going to turn this club around. I just think we should put this in a little more perspective.

I haven't really read any genuine reasons why we shouldn't take this deal.

It's all about the midfield for me, if the club thinks a deal can improve that area significantly more than ND2 would in the short to medium term - do it.

According to Brett Anderson of Inside Footy a couple of hours ago on SEN Melbourne have knocked back this suggestion from GWS.

Clear thinking.

its nice to play hardball for a change

we are evolving