It keeps getting said that Jack has no tank when in fact he runs between 13 and 15 ks a game on GPS. It's a fallacy

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Running round in circles doesn't count!

All you watts hater give the guy some slack, I allways thought the best years of any sportmans life is between 23 to28. Which jack is just heading into

Couldn't agree more,I also hope you use that as one of your theories for your supercoach and or dreamteam, it's helped me win back to back SC premierships over the last two years

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Running round in circles doesn't count!

By that logic, Kenenisa Bikele isn't much of a runner. He's only the ten thousand metre world record holder, but since he did it running around in circles I guess it doesn't count.

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Running round in circles doesn't count!

That's the perception not the reality.

C and B we are never going to agree on this one.

I am from the "crap selection" group and you are from the "our selection was ok we just can't develop them " group.

So there is nothing to be gained by insulting each other.

We are were we are and hopefully a new board and FD we cure the problem over the next three years.

Go Dees

As a constant JW defender, I guess I fall into both groups - both of which we have ample evidence of being crap at. Ultimately, if we were good at one of them (selection or development), you would expect a higher success rate than we've had so far. It's disgraceful that we have been let down by the club so badly. I still think that JW will, with the right guidance, be a star and I will be devastated if he goes.

Having said that, we need to judge Jackson & Roos on their results some of which will be determined by their ability to retain good players, develop what's left after the clean out and select successful replacements. This member of the jury is out until mid-2014.

I often find myself in disagreement with C&B, but here he is spot on. I can't recall many selections we made which at the time were controversial. (Hindsight not permitted.) MaybeThe a bit of arguing around the edges but nothing jaw dropping. Clearly development is a big part of the picture, maybe mixed with a bit of bad luck in taking players who were also popular with other clubs but who turned out to be duds.

The only one that I can think of is cook. All other players were being targeted by clubs with similar picks to ours.

Not to argue for its own sake but thats akin to saying a yield is not beholden upon the quality of the seed. All else the same..weather etc.. good seed returns more than poor quality or so /so. Arguably theres is some effect of nurturing thereafter but if we assume, and for the most part I cant see why not , that all the players were similarly treated, either with contempt, misunderstanding or other, then it still comes down to the player in the first place.

It is an area i think we are taking strides in. Still not there , but vastly improved . Our idea of what is a football player seems to have matured ( still much room for improvement however

'bubsy, that seed thing is a good analogy. Reminds me of a certain parable.

To apply it to the matter at hand, it doesn't matter how good the seed is - if you throw it where it's too much exposed to the elements; or you plant it and dig it up and put it somewhere else, then put it somewhere else again; you're never going to get as much yield as you could have got.

On the other hand, if you've got ordinary seed, but you nurture it really well, you can get much more yield out of it.

This club has treated all its seedlings with serious neglect, then with outright abuse. I have no doubt that Roos is a far better gardener than the last two, and we'll start to grow a far better crop.

'bubsy, that seed thing is a good analogy. Reminds me of a certain parable.To apply it to the matter at hand, it doesn't matter how good the seed is - if you throw it where it's too much exposed to the elements; or you plant it and dig it up and put it somewhere else, then put it somewhere else again; you're never going to get as much yield as you could have got.On the other hand, if you've got ordinary seed, but you nurture it really well, you can get much more yield out of it.This club has treated all its seedlings with serious neglect, then with outright abuse. I have no doubt that Roos is a far better gardener than the last two, and we'll start to grow a far better crop.

The last few years have been pretty much weeds and compost.

Pretty sad to see supposed MFC supporters continue to dig in to Watts, even when he is on the verge of re-committing to the club

What you have to ask yourself is how would the players we selected would have gone at other clubs.

Would Cook have got a look in at Sydney or any strong club.

Would Gysberts been a better player at Collingwood

Would Strauss have been a regular at Hawthorn

Would Blease get a regular game at Geelong

Would Bennell get a regular game at West Coast

Would Morton have survived more than a couple of seasons with any top 8 club except one that had the ability to double his size

This is the problem, there are plenty that we've picked that simply wouldn't get a look in elsewhere and would have been offloaded after a few years. Some say that they were taken where they were expected to but exactly who expected Morton to be still 50 kgs after 5 years of AFL training? There are plenty of top 20 recruits that never make it it's just that the other clubs have made better selections with their other picks, we haven't.

We've been so interested in our number one selection that the rest have been almost anti climactic.

That's where you get your balance, stuff up the first perhaps but stuff up first and second then you have a problem.

I've said before on here that JW will be a very good player in a couple of years when he matures a bit, not that I'm saying he's immature but I think he will realise it's serious and his body will become a bit more battle hardened.

Roosy may be able to bring him on a bit quicker and with a few bigger forwards it takes a bit of pressure off him; we are not building a team around him any more, he is now going to fit in to the team we are building.

I've seen Jack at club functions almost holding court with the older ladies surrounding him and hanging off his every word, like every mums dream son; it's not a game any more Jack time to prove your worth.

Would Cale Morton have been better if at Essendon in 2012..?

I dare say he'd be a much more physical player.

Pretty sad to see supposed MFC supporters continue to dig in to Watts, even when he is on the verge of re-committing to the club

Im sorry HH . I totally refute the basis of this post. There is no rule that says in order to be a Demon you must abandon all rights to debate, to query, to judgement etc whether that be of a player or club-worker ( no matter what position )

Many here see players put through the gist mill and thats apparently "hate" Its nothing of the sort for most its calling some to task for what often amounts to unsatisfactory performances. They are being held accountable for their efforts in light of the fact that they are paid to do better.

When some see behaviour that seems at a discord with what ought to be transpiring and denounce it, thats not hate, thats annoyance.

I think Jack Watts is a prodigious talent in waiting but thats all we seem to do , is wait. % years is a long long time. Many others come on a lots quicker. Even taking the Wines/Toumpas discussion as a mirror where one has hit the ground running ( and running hard ) whilst the other is presumed to be the type to take a few more years I would think even they would be dismayed if Dimitri was putting in as many lacklustre games as JW is after 5 years at the club.

How jolly bloody nice of the lad to deign to consider continuing on with us. Currently I should think he owes us a massive refund. His stance, attitude towards his position is cheeky if not petulant.

HH we PAY for the privilege of being a MFC member.. That same club PAYS him for the privilege of a job at the highest level of his craft.

There is no supposedness about being a Melbourne supporter simply for want of adjudging players as pass/fail good/bad etc

Quite frankly only an idiot takes everything dished up as Ok without recourse to explanation.

Jack Watts needs to pull his finger out big time before many here will afford him the plaudits others seem to give rather generously.

Would Cale Morton have been better if at Essendon in 2012..?

I dare say he'd be a much more physical player.

well...certainly a lot more Pep to his stride !!

I think that the wing is Watts' best position. He has sublime skill and ball delivery. Does he have the tank to play there? No!

He will never be a key forward, and while he was recruited to be one, I'm not particularly fussed that he hasn't become one. Roos will have to show him the fitness required of a true winger and demand that he get up to speed.

Im sorry HH . I totally refute the basis of this post. There is no rule that says in order to be a Demon you must abandon all rights to debate, to query, to judgement etc whether that be of a player or club-worker ( no matter what position )

Many here see players put through the gist mill and thats apparently "hate" Its nothing of the sort for most its calling some to task for what often amounts to unsatisfactory performances. They are being held accountable for their efforts in light of the fact that they are paid to do better.

When some see behaviour that seems at a discord with what ought to be transpiring and denounce it, thats not hate, thats annoyance.

I think Jack Watts is a prodigious talent in waiting but thats all we seem to do , is wait. % years is a long long time. Many others come on a lots quicker. Even taking the Wines/Toumpas discussion as a mirror where one has hit the ground running ( and running hard ) whilst the other is presumed to be the type to take a few more years I would think even they would be dismayed if Dimitri was putting in as many lacklustre games as JW is after 5 years at the club.

How jolly bloody nice of the lad to deign to consider continuing on with us. Currently I should think he owes us a massive refund. His stance, attitude towards his position is cheeky if not petulant.

HH we PAY for the privilege of being a MFC member.. That same club PAYS him for the privilege of a job at the highest level of his craft.

There is no supposedness about being a Melbourne supporter simply for want of adjudging players as pass/fail good/bad etc

Quite frankly only an [censored] takes everything dished up as Ok without recourse to explanation.

Jack Watts needs to pull his finger out big time before many here will afford him the plaudits others seem to give rather generously.

I seriously don't get this attitude that any player owes anyone a refund unless they are intentionally playing below standard after being given a nice sum of money. You see this in the US where players have career years in the year their contract is up for renewal.

I have only seen improvements from Jack the last few years, as he has shirked the contest less, has shown a greater willingness to back into packs to get the mark, greater aggression when he has the ball in hand (taking the game on) and his pressure has improved. Now it may not be where everyone wants it to be, but just because the club chose Him as it's no.1 pick does not mean he owes us any more than someone picked at pick 50. It was the club's decision to make that pick, and they must take responsibility for it.

To suggest that the club has no responsibility or has not contributed to the lack of development of a player is like saying that a teacher is not responsible for the development of a school student. A person can only develop so much based on the skill of those who are instructing/teaching them.

sorry PM24...whos being paid here....to play ??

Players are paid on probably nothing more than the expectation of delivering to their ability.

Last time I looked we didnt pay the students.

In reality the one person that Jack istruly letting down...is Jack.

interesting observation none the less there ....Shirks less !!! my .... praise indeed

It keeps getting said that Jack has no tank when in fact he runs between 13 and 15 ks a game on GPS. It's a fallacy

Where do these numbers come from? And how do they compare with a genuine midfielder, such as N Jones? Also, do you know how much is sprinting and how much is jogging to position?

So are you suggesting that a club (the employer) has no responsibility for the decisions it makes with respect to how it recruits and then develops players (the employee) ......and that is solely the responsibility of the player (the employee) to develop themselves and become the best they can be even if they are not given the proper development or training opportunities by the club?

As for the students.......obviously it was pointless for me to try and make what I thought was an appropriate comparison with another scenario where development of a person takes place. Lesson learned.

I'll just clarify something else, I'm not suggesting that Jack should be absolved of all responsibility for his development, my view is that both the club and the player have a responsibility to their development. But if one of the two fails in that responsibility then the player will never be what they could be. It is a shared responsibility.

That is a point I probably haven't explained properly yet.

Edited September 17, 201311 yr by pm24

PM24.. I make no such suggestion that there is no partnership of sorts about all this. What I do assert is the element with the greatest influence and overall effect is what comes from the player himself. if he has no real will to aspire, to grow, develop , "insert word/cliche of choice " then nothing the club does good , or bad, will have much impact.

I seriously wonder at times whether he ( JW) really wants to be out there. That it to say , indeed question , his voracity for the contest. I hope he finds it.

What you have to ask yourself is how would the players we selected would have gone at other clubs.

there are plenty that we've picked that simply wouldn't get a look in elsewhere and would have been offloaded after a few years.

but you're going round in circles again ignoring the basic question- how can you make the assumption that all those players would have been rubbish elsewhere as opposed to it being our fault for not making players out of them

but you're going round in circles again ignoring the basic question- how can you make the assumption that all those players would have been rubbish elsewhere as opposed to it being our fault for not making players out of them

Easy, they have been picked up now by other clubs who can't do much with them either.

Get over it, we drafted poorly and probably if we had decent development some of the ones mentioned may have risen to C grade or maybe better, but not much.

Do you really think that Morton would have been any better at another club, or Cook or Gysberts?

Blease is an ordinary footballer who has pace and that's about it; let's see if Roos persists with him for more than the length of his contract.

By that logic, Kenenisa Bikele isn't much of a runner. He's only the ten thousand metre world record holder, but since he did it running around in circles I guess it doesn't count.

exactly, running around the outside of the oval shows he's no midfielder

plus he only runs one way, and never lays a tackle

Easy, they have been picked up now by other clubs who can't do much with them either.

Get over it, we drafted poorly and probably if we had decent development some of the ones mentioned may have risen to C grade or maybe better, but not much.

Do you really think that Morton would have been any better at another club, or Cook or Gysberts?

Blease is an ordinary footballer who has pace and that's about it; let's see if Roos persists with him for more than the length of his contract.

what if being with us for 3-4-5 years before moving on just stuffed their development, you can't be sure of such a thing

not much else for Blease? I can think of a good half dozen brilliant goals he has kicked, that is certainly something

Edited September 17, 201311 yr by Curry & Beer

what if being with us for 3-4-5 years before moving on just stuffed their development, you can't be sure of such a thing

not much else for Blease? I can think of a good half dozen brilliant goals he has kicked, that is certainly something

what if it didnt